daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 4th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #461
Falubaz
Registered User
 
Falubaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Zielona Gora, Polska
Posts: 14,799
Likes (Received): 2940

Quote:
Originally Posted by C30 View Post
...Please don't quote this whole post, or post more photos on this page, for that matter...
Then for the next time post just few pics per one single post, let's say 3, max 5 pics.
__________________
Zielona Góra - Ziemia Lubuska

₪₪₪Zielona Góra moim okiem₪₪₪ Zielonogórskie autobusy₪₪₪Port Lotniczy ZIElona Góra₪₪₪ BRT₪₪₪ścieżki rowerowe w ZG
₪₪₪[Świat] „Przebłyski pamięci”₪₪₪Moja Ameryka - nie tylko Stany
Falubaz no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 5th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #462
FabriFlorence
Registered User
 
FabriFlorence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Firenze
Posts: 1,772
Likes (Received): 401

I heard about a project of a 4th (orange?) metro line proposed by the green party. Someone can tell me something more?
FabriFlorence no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #463
datoriprogram
Registered User
 
datoriprogram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm/New York
Posts: 990
Likes (Received): 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
I heard about a project of a 4th (orange?) metro line proposed by the green party. Someone can tell me something more?
This is their proposal:


You can head over to the Swedish forum where it's being discussed We try to keep most of our posts in English.
__________________

Svartmetall, dj4life liked this post
datoriprogram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 01:27 AM   #464
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8796

Coupled with that you also have the Social Democrats talking about a new line too. Theirs takes a rather different route, though. Really, there needs to be a hybrid solution as both parties have good ideas, but as stand alone ideas both ideas aren't that great (for example, in this proposal by MP above, the line should never branch at Fridhemsplan and go through Bromma and should not duplicate the green line between Brommaplan and Alvik. That area is best served by light rail really - especially after the blue line extension to Barkarby.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #465
Nouvellecosse
~ Mysterious Entity ~
 
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 4,446
Likes (Received): 313

Does Stockholm really need more metro lines or is it well enough served by the system it already has?
__________________
.
.
I always think of a new type of cologne brand when I see your name

"Nouvellecosse, by Calvin Klein. Take on the world!"

- MysticMcGoo
Nouvellecosse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #466
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,747
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Does Stockholm really need more metro lines or is it well enough served by the system it already has?
Absolutely not. Besides the metro there are trams and commuter trains.

The metro is needed in densely populated areas, all those dense areas already have metrolines, the proposal from the green party is to build a metro line in sparsely populated residential areas where there already are buses, trams and commuter trains.

I think a medium sized city like Stockholm needs trams instead of new metro lines. There used to be an extensive network of trams in the 1960's why not put some effort into rebuild that.

There were plans to build a metro to the northeast suburb of Täby in the 1970's and demolish the narrow gauge comuter trains because some bourgeois living along the line would like to get rid of the "noisy" trains. But the metroplans were canceled thank God. The metro is not needed in those northeast suburbs.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #467
dj4life
Registered User
 
dj4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: World
Posts: 24,279
Likes (Received): 48596

The population in the city and, especially, the suburbs is growing fast (the number of the public transportation users is increasing). Also, the lack of interchange stations is already causing discomfort for the passengers.

Ideally, the new, strategically located, subway line would help to increase the capacity of the system to a more sufficient level (the system would be more prepared for the population increase) and distribute the rush of people more evenly. Moreover, the existing lines would be more interconnected with each other (the passengers would save more time when having more options for intergange between the lines).
dj4life no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #468
dj4life
Registered User
 
dj4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: World
Posts: 24,279
Likes (Received): 48596

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Absolutely not. Besides the metro there are trams and commuter trains.
Arguably. Indeed, a fairly good system already exists. However, it is not clear for how long will it serve the increasing population properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The metro is needed in densely populated areas, all those dense areas already have metrolines, the proposal from the green party is to build a metro line in sparsely populated residential areas where there already are buses, trams and commuter trains.
That is correct. There have been many proposal presented recently and only one is investigatied seriously - the extention of a blue line to Nacka.
The other proposals, including the one presented by the Green Party, are more like ideas for the public debate, which can be changed/modified when the process of investigation starts. Also, the period of planing and constuction is quite far away in the future and it is good that we think about the possibilities of making the public transportation (in a growing city) to be more attractive and accessible already now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I think a medium sized city like Stockholm needs trams instead of new metro lines. There used to be an extensive network of trams in the 1960's why not put some effort into rebuild that.
Nowadays Stockholm is a fairly large city with a lot of skattered suburbs where population is growing and such areas should be integrated with the center of agglomeration more properly.
Trams and the ligt-rail system are already a prioritised mean of transport in terms of investment.
A part of the city tram system has been reconstructed [project "SpårvägCity"]. There are plans to prolonge the line to Ropsten via a newly built area in Norra Djurgården [project "Norra Djurgårdsstaden"].
Also, the light-rail system is being expanded during these days (a new line Alvik-Solna Centrum will be opened next year. Later it will be extended to Kista). The extention of the network southwards (Älvsjö-Flemingsberg) is planned, as well [project "SpårvägSyd"]. A combination of the new lines and tram cars of a larger capacity should be enough to secure a better communication between these areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
There were plans to build a metro to the northeast suburb of Täby in the 1970's and demolish the narrow gauge comuter trains because some bourgeois living along the line would like to get rid of the "noisy" trains. But the metroplans were canceled thank God. The metro is not needed in those northeast suburbs.
Stockholm is an interesting city which is surrounded by many suburbs of a various size. Täby is a fairly large (pop. over 60 000 people) suburb that is quite far from the center and nowadays people travel with the narrow-gauge trains to Stockholm, like years ago. Even though Roslagsbanan is a really nice and enjoyable ride, the romantism is over during the rush hours when many people cannot find a seat or space in a wagon. The planned replacement of the existing cars with the new ones may be a decent sollution for some time, yet this might not help in the future.

I, personally, am not a big supporter of the costly investments for something that may not pay off in the future or might not improve the situation more quickly. However, a strategically panned expansion of the subway system (most likely, a combination of the existing ideas/proposals) would benefit Stockholm in the future for sure. At least, more investments to the public transportation could benefit Stockholm (and the region) and strengthen its image of an environmentally-friendly city more than than construction of big road tunnel system and parking places under the parks and urban areas [f.e. project "Förbifart Stockholm"].
__________________

Svartmetall liked this post

Last edited by dj4life; April 6th, 2013 at 10:46 AM.
dj4life no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #469
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8796

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Absolutely not. Besides the metro there are trams and commuter trains.
Yep, but there are missing connections and areas that need better rail cover. Nacka is an obvious portion of the city without cover and that is undergoing expansion. It has almost universal support for tunnelbana expansion out to there - and actually has been on the plans for many, many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The metro is needed in densely populated areas, all those dense areas already have metrolines, the proposal from the green party is to build a metro line in sparsely populated residential areas where there already are buses, trams and commuter trains.
No, a lot of the areas on the map are quite dense and certainly the link between Södermalm and Kungsholmen is very much needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I think a medium sized city like Stockholm needs trams instead of new metro lines. There used to be an extensive network of trams in the 1960's why not put some effort into rebuild that.
No, absolutely not. Vienna, Munich and Oslo are all looking at investing far more in their metro systems for the simple reason that they have the best moving capacity and the best capture for patronage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
There were plans to build a metro to the northeast suburb of Täby in the 1970's and demolish the narrow gauge comuter trains because some bourgeois living along the line would like to get rid of the "noisy" trains. But the metroplans were canceled thank God. The metro is not needed in those northeast suburbs.
Yes, it is. Täby is undergoing massive expansion around the centrum and there are plans for further densification in the area. A better connection to the rest of the city is needed and I can see why the Greens say that a link at Universitetet to an extended red line that goes to Täby is needed. Would really open that area up greatly.

Remember, there is massive population growth in Stockholm. We can't let our infrastructure fall behind.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 05:38 AM   #470
dj4life
Registered User
 
dj4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: World
Posts: 24,279
Likes (Received): 48596

Also, a good integration of Hagastaden which is already under construction between Stocholm and Solna will be needed.
dj4life no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #471
Nouvellecosse
~ Mysterious Entity ~
 
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 4,446
Likes (Received): 313

Interesting mix of responses.

The reason I am curious is that Stockholm is said by some to be the urban area that has the greatest length metro system relative to the population (an urban area of 2 million with a metro system of 110km). So it seemed a bit strange to think it would need significant further expansion such as an entire new full length line. Based on the standards of most cities, it is built well enough to even withstand significant population growth before needing to be expanded.
__________________
.
.
I always think of a new type of cologne brand when I see your name

"Nouvellecosse, by Calvin Klein. Take on the world!"

- MysticMcGoo

dj4life liked this post
Nouvellecosse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #472
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Interesting mix of responses.

The reason I am curious is that Stockholm is said by some to be the urban area that has the greatest length metro system relative to the population (an urban area of 2 million with a metro system of 110km). So it seemed a bit strange to think it would need significant further expansion such as an entire new full length line. Based on the standards of most cities, it is built well enough to even withstand significant population growth before needing to be expanded.
Actually, the metro is closing in on capacity constrains during rush hours, if nothing is done, they will have to begin using door pushers Tokyo style in the not so distant future, at lest in T-Centralen station.

Unfortunately this was not foreseen during the planing phase of the system, they calculated a certain population and didn't realize that cities grow over time, or that Stockholm would grow this much. So now some stations are already to small and can't be expanded, T-Centralen is impossible to expand for example. Longer trains would solve some congestion but that is not possible.

So the only long term solution is to build new lines.
__________________

dj4life, Swede liked this post
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #473
Nouvellecosse
~ Mysterious Entity ~
 
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 4,446
Likes (Received): 313

That's quite interesting actually. It's a great thing that the system is so well used.
__________________
.
.
I always think of a new type of cologne brand when I see your name

"Nouvellecosse, by Calvin Klein. Take on the world!"

- MysticMcGoo

dj4life liked this post
Nouvellecosse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2013, 03:10 AM   #474
dj4life
Registered User
 
dj4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: World
Posts: 24,279
Likes (Received): 48596

Some more pictures of the new trams have been published. I put all the images (the newer and the ones that were published earlier) together:

(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


(c) caf.es


More information about the new Stockholm trams that were manufactured by CAF: http://www.caf.es/en/productos-servi...talle.php?p=53.
__________________
dj4life no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #475
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8796

The new trams look nice. I'm looking forward to seeing them on the streets!
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #476
Swede
forumer #29
 
Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: sol.III.eu.se.08
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 1663

And it won't just be running in the streets It'll be the standard tram/LRV for all of Stockholm afaik, so ti'll run on suburban dedicated ROWs as well.
__________________
Forumers met so far:
Huopa, Nightsky, Jo, wolkenkrabber, ThisSideofSteinway, jacksom, New Jack City, LeCom, Ellatur, Jan, Dennis, Ace, Bardamu, AtlanticaC5, Ringil, Dysfunctional, stacey, karakhal, ch1le, Hviid, staff, kjetilab, Þróndeimr, queetz, FREKI, sander, Blue Viking, nomels, Mantas, ristov, Rafal_T, khaan, Chilenofuturista, Jonte Myra, safta20, AW, Pas, Jarmo K, IceCheese, Sideshow_Bob, sk, Ingenioren, Ayreonaut, Silver Creations, Hasse78, Svartmetall

dj4life, Svartmetall liked this post
Swede no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #477
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8796

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
And it won't just be running in the streets It'll be the standard tram/LRV for all of Stockholm afaik, so ti'll run on suburban dedicated ROWs as well.
Aha, that's excellent news as this is a big improvement over the current Tvärbanan stock.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #478
Swede
forumer #29
 
Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: sol.III.eu.se.08
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 1663

Just the fact that the doors are evenly spaced will be nice during rushhour.
iirc some of the new deliveries will be going on the new bit of Tvärbanan (Alvik-Solna) to start with iirc.
__________________
Forumers met so far:
Huopa, Nightsky, Jo, wolkenkrabber, ThisSideofSteinway, jacksom, New Jack City, LeCom, Ellatur, Jan, Dennis, Ace, Bardamu, AtlanticaC5, Ringil, Dysfunctional, stacey, karakhal, ch1le, Hviid, staff, kjetilab, Þróndeimr, queetz, FREKI, sander, Blue Viking, nomels, Mantas, ristov, Rafal_T, khaan, Chilenofuturista, Jonte Myra, safta20, AW, Pas, Jarmo K, IceCheese, Sideshow_Bob, sk, Ingenioren, Ayreonaut, Silver Creations, Hasse78, Svartmetall

dj4life liked this post
Swede no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 03:46 PM   #479
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8796

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Just the fact that the doors are evenly spaced will be nice during rushhour.
iirc some of the new deliveries will be going on the new bit of Tvärbanan (Alvik-Solna) to start with iirc.
Yes I never quite understood the door arrangement on the current vehicles - it seemed very counter-intuitive. Any idea why they chose such a layout?

I'm looking forward to the summer to see the opening of that stretch (though that's not the only reason I'm looking forward to summer of course).
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2013, 06:12 PM   #480
Swede
forumer #29
 
Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: sol.III.eu.se.08
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 1663

I think it had to do with perceived need for seats outweighing the need for 4 doors per side. But not enough to make 'em 2 doors per side. So they ordered 'em with 3 doors per side and since the model was made for having 4 doors per side (2 per side per segment) it got an uneven lay-out. New model will still have as many doors per side (with the same vehicle length) but since they'll be evenly spaced I think it'll be a real improvement.
__________________
Forumers met so far:
Huopa, Nightsky, Jo, wolkenkrabber, ThisSideofSteinway, jacksom, New Jack City, LeCom, Ellatur, Jan, Dennis, Ace, Bardamu, AtlanticaC5, Ringil, Dysfunctional, stacey, karakhal, ch1le, Hviid, staff, kjetilab, Þróndeimr, queetz, FREKI, sander, Blue Viking, nomels, Mantas, ristov, Rafal_T, khaan, Chilenofuturista, Jonte Myra, safta20, AW, Pas, Jarmo K, IceCheese, Sideshow_Bob, sk, Ingenioren, Ayreonaut, Silver Creations, Hasse78, Svartmetall
Swede no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
metro, scandinavia, stockholm, sweden

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium