Austria-Slovenia

[Verso]

Did you know that in 2007 Klagenfurt had changed its name into Klagenfurt am Wörthersee (Celovec ob Vrbskem jezeru)? Not that there's any other Klagenfurt (or Celovec).

[Verso]

Bilingual place-name signs controversy settled

Political leaders seem to have ended a lengthy argument considering bilingual place-name signs.

Negotiators announced in Klagenfurt yesterday evening (Tues) they agreed that 164 towns and communities in the province of Carinthia will be equipped with place-name signs in both German and Slovenian.

Provincial decision-makers and representatives of the Slovenian minority have been at odds over the issue for decades. Politicians have quarrelled about the number of affected towns ever since the Austrian State Treaty was agreed upon in 1955.

A low point was reached in 1972 when opponents of a decree by the federal government of Social Democratic (SPÖ) Chancellor Bruno Kreisky tore down several bilingual place-name signs.

Late Carinthian Freedom Party (FPÖ) and Alliance for the Future of Austria (BZÖ) Governor Jörg Haider successfully tried to delay a settlement over the years by removing the affected signs by a few metres to make aware of legal loopholes.

Haider’s successor as governor of the province, Gerhard Dörfler refused to leave Haider’s uncooperative course after the right-wing spearhead’s death in 2008 before making a remarkable U-turn on the issue earlier this year.

"We carried the State Treaty’s requirement over the finish line today," Dörfler – who is the deputy head of the Carinthian Freedom Party (FPK) – said at the end of yesterday’s eight-hour Marathon session of negotiations with SPÖ State Secretary Josef Ostermayer and representatives of Carinthia’s Slovenes.

However, Dörfler said the agreement included the decision to hold a referendum in the affected towns and communities. The FPK official stressed he was convinced that the vast majority of residents will back the settlement.

Valentine Inzko, one of the Slovenian minority’s leaders, announced: "One chapter of Carinthian history is over – may the next begin."

SPÖ Chancellor Werner Faymann congratulated the negotiators for having come to an agreement. The settlement also includes a pledge by the Carinthian government to subsidise music and Slovenian language lessons for the minority’s children. Figures have shown that more and more Austrian kids living in the southern province are opting for Slovenian as an optional subject.

The ongoing feud has been observed with bewilderment by many Austrians over the decades as there have been little difficulties in the coexistence of Austrians and Slovenians, Hungarians, Roma, Croats and Czechs elsewhere in the country. Most Austrians are understood to consider the bilingual aspect as an advantage in today’s ever-changing world, also since many international businesses consider Austria as a gateway to do business in Eastern Europe (EE).

Around 50,000 Slovenians live in Austria. The 2001 census showed that nearly 26,000 people residing in Austria are members of the Hungarian minority. The number of Czechs living in Austria is believed to range around 20,000. Furthermore, 20,000 Roma and 15,000 Slovaks are currently living in the country.

Germans are the strongest minority in Austria at 213,000 ahead of people from Serbia, Kosovo and Montenegro with 207,000. The third-strongest group are Turks (183,000), followed by people from Bosnia and Herzegovina (130,000) and Croatia (70,000).

http://austrianindependent.com/news/...oversy_settled

Finally.

[Energy2003]

Around 50,000 Slovenians live in Austria. The 2001 census showed that nearly 26,000 people residing in Austria are members of the Hungarian minority. The number of Czechs living in Austria is believed to range around 20,000. Furthermore, 20,000 Roma and 15,000 Slovaks are currently living in the country.

Germans are the strongest minority in Austria at 213,000 ahead of people from Serbia, Kosovo and Montenegro with 207,000. The third-strongest group are Turks (183,000), followed by people from Bosnia and Herzegovina (130,000) and Croatia (70,000).

sounds like it would make no sense to them to have double-languaged signs in Carinthia ...

[Verso]

That doesn't depend on number, but on autochthonism.

[Ubertino de Casale]

The number of Czechs living in Austria is believed to range around 20,000. Furthermore, 20,000 Roma and 15,000 Slovaks are currently living in the country.

That is understandable as Czechs were the most dominant ethnicity in historic Austria. Maybe you will be surprised, but the biggest "Czech" city was Vienna, after it Chicago and third was Prague..
And the same goes to Slovak ancestors, however not that populous like Czechs..

Verso Slovakia´s law count with placement of bilingual sign (but not only names but every administrative institution and voluntary on shops) in towns with at least 20% of the population of minority. Thus appear to almost 260 Magyar towns and villages, 20 Ruthenian , 15 Czech, 5 German, 2 Croatian, due to arising Ukrainian population maybe also Ukrainian in the future.. and lastly we have a real threat to place Vietnamese and Chinese.
Current draft in Parliament counts with 15%.

Ronald, are you often in Eisenstadt? (in Slovak Železné Mesto)
interesting thread..

[neon1111]

Originally Posted by Ubertino de Casale

...
Verso Slovakia´s law count with placement of bilingual sign (but not only names but every administrative institution and voluntary on shops) in towns with at least 20% of the population of minority. Thus appear to almost 260 Magyar towns and villages, 20 Ruthenian , 15 Czech, 5 German, 2 Croatian, due to arising Ukrainian population maybe also Ukrainian in the future.. and lastly we have a real threat to place Vietnamese and Chinese.

Current draft in Parliament counts with 15%.

The Austrian State Treaty also includes a regulation of bilingual sings, but the Austrians did not take that into account.

The 1976 Act of Parliament makes bilingual signage dependent on the percentage of minority population living in the area (a minimum of 20 percent). The 2001 ruling of the High Court rejected the law as unconstitutional. Some interpret this decision as a complete rejection of the percentage based threshold, others would like to reduce it to 10-15 percent.

Source: http://www.usefoundation.org/view/90...k&gl=si&source

[Verso]

Originally Posted by Ubertino de Casale

Verso Slovakia´s law count with placement of bilingual sign (but not only names but every administrative institution and voluntary on shops) in towns with at least 20% of the population of minority. Thus appear to almost 260 Magyar towns and villages, 20 Ruthenian , 15 Czech, 5 German, 2 Croatian, due to arising Ukrainian population maybe also Ukrainian in the future.. and lastly we have a real threat to place Vietnamese and Chinese.
Current draft in Parliament counts with 15%.

Here % doesn't matter at all, just (un)autochthonism. There can be 100% Serbs somewhere and the town won't be bilingual, because they aren't autochthonous. OTOH, there're just 2% Italians in Koper/Capodistria and everything is bilingual (except some ads).

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Verso

Here % doesn't matter at all, just (un)autochthonism. There can be 100% Serbs somewhere and the town won't be bilingual, because they aren't autochthonous. OTOH, there're just 2% Italians in Koper/Capodistria and everything is bilingual (except some ads).

And what if Serbs will become autochtonous?
How many years are set to become autochtonous?

[Verso]

Centuries...

[hofburg]

well i's not really defined. wikipedia says "Indigenous peoples are ethnic groups that are defined as indigenous according to one of the various definitions of the term. There is no universally accepted definition[1] but most carry connotations of being the "original inhabitants" of a territory."

In this particular case I think autochthon is every citizen of Carinthia who's ancestors have been there before 1918.

[Broccolli]

...

[Verso]

How did Austrian Slovenes become autochthonous then, if not by having lived there for centuries? As we know, Slovenes are originally from the Carpathians (and we're all from Africa anyway).

[Ronald34]

Originally Posted by Verso

How did Austrian Slovenes become autochthonous then, if not by having lived there for centuries? As we know, Slovenes are originally from the Carpathians (and we're all from Africa anyway).

So it is; please remember that the Slavic speaking people lived centuries before the german speaking people came to Karinthia/Kärnten/Koroska.

Now, the bilingual problems in Unterkärnten are solved and 164 villages will become bilingual shields.

There will be 2 villages where Slovenian Language will also be official language beside of german; it will be Eberndorf, and St. Kanzian.

It makes my happy that the problems are solved now, and i want to also say thank you to our Staats-Sekretär Ostermann, our President Fischer and Slovenian president Danilo Türk.

[Ronald34]

I personally think that Slovenia is rule model in minority politics (Hungarians and Italians).

[Ronald34]

Originally Posted by Ubertino de Casale

That is understandable as Czechs were the most dominant ethnicity in historic Austria. Maybe you will be surprised, but the biggest "Czech" city was Vienna, after it Chicago and third was Prague..
And the same goes to Slovak ancestors, however not that populous like Czechs..

Verso Slovakia´s law count with placement of bilingual sign (but not only names but every administrative institution and voluntary on shops) in towns with at least 20% of the population of minority. Thus appear to almost 260 Magyar towns and villages, 20 Ruthenian , 15 Czech, 5 German, 2 Croatian, due to arising Ukrainian population maybe also Ukrainian in the future.. and lastly we have a real threat to place Vietnamese and Chinese.
Current draft in Parliament counts with 15%.

Ronald, are you often in Eisenstadt? (in Slovak Železné Mesto)
interesting thread..

I live in Eisenstadt.

But i'm interested to live on the slovenian coast, where i feel very well for my bronchial disease. The only problem is the difficulty of the slovenian language, but at the moment i have basic knowledges, which i want to improve. Here in Burgenland, there are no slovenian courses for learning, only in Steiermark and Kärnten.

[Broccolli]

...

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Broccolli

Sure Verso you must live on the same teritory for centuries to become autochthonous,
but i thought that you meant, when that guy from Slovakia asked you
(How many years are set to become autochtonous? and you said Centuries) that some minoritys can become autochthonous if they lived in some country i dont know for just 100 years. There was my disagree with you becouse in my opinion minority can become (or is) autochthonous only if those people live (in our case Slovenes in Carinthia)
on that same teritory for just exact amonunt of time as Slovenes in Homeland...i hope i was clear this time

Exactly! for example, many Romanians are imigrating currently to Slovakia and settling here. Count that they will live here maybe for 60 years and in some town they will form more than 15%. Does it mean that they won´t have minority rights only because they didn´t live here for centuries? How many years is enough to obtain minority rights? 20,30 or 60 or even centuries...?

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Ronald34

I live in Eisenstadt.

But i'm interested to live on the slovenian coast, where i feel very well for my bronchial disease. The only problem is the difficulty of the slovenian language, but at the moment i have basic knowledges, which i want to improve. Here in Burgenland, there are no slovenian courses for learning, only in Steiermark and Kärnten.

Salzkammergut won´t help you?

[Verso]

Originally Posted by Broccolli

Sure Verso you must live on the same teritory for centuries to become autochthonous,
but i thought that you meant, when that guy from Slovakia asked you
(How many years are set to become autochtonous? and you said Centuries) that some minoritys can become autochthonous if they lived in some country i dont know for just 100 years. There was my disagree with you becouse in my opinion minority can become (or is) autochthonous only if those people live (in our case Slovenes in Carinthia)
on that same teritory for just exact amonunt of time as Slovenes in Homeland...i hope i was clear this time

Yes, I agree; well it's complicated anyway.

[mmmartin]

I asked my mentor for diploma paper about the definition of autochthonous. He said, there is not single definition. In some countries is 100 years, in others three generations.

But this can not be based on single family, but on continuous settlement of many families ...