I've got a serious question for Hungarians (regarding their cultural, ethnic and linguistic identity)

[Bikes]

Originally Posted by blogen_

Mit gondolsz azok a szülők, akik beadják a gyerekeiket liberális világpolgárok? Nem, hanem egyszerű magyarok, akik a nemzeti hagyományok és a történelmi kultúra ápolását várják ettől a tábortól, és nem a nyugati kultúráét, mert akkor keresztény táborba küldenék, olyan is van ugyanis. Ne próbálj egy olyan képet vetíteni, hogy a drága szülők feldobnak egy pénzérmét, hogy a Szivárvány Szabadelvű Kör Kis Rózsaszín Masírozók táborába, vagy a Rovásírásos Hátrafelé Nyilazó Görbelábúak Sámántáborába küldjék e a gyerekeket!

A szülők leszarják, az iskola meg a szakkörök ajánlanak a kölyköknek táborokat, aztán ők meg a szülők felé könyörögnek, hogy mi az ami éppen szimpatikus neki, vagy ahova Józsi és Mari is mennek.

[blogen_]

That is, if the data is correct, which is not. Hungary is a country where a mass-raped girl cannot win her case against the police.

All of the data is official statistics.

Yes, soo veery chauvinistic, it's hard to live there

The kindly Swiss smile at all clients, but they are the chiefs. The immigrant is second-class citizen in Switzerland, because the Swisss do not tolerate the equality. For example in the religion freedom. What is legitimate for Christians, is not legitimate for Muslims.

South Korea and Japan are quite liberal countries

What! Hell yeah! Bocs Bikes, de azokról a japánokról beszélsz, akik azért futtatják a robotikát, mert állatoknak tekintik a nem japán ázsiaiakat és ez az egyetlen módja, hogy lemondhassanak a bevándorlókról és azokról a koreaiakról, akikhez képest a milosevicsi szerbek elfajult buzik voltak, mert olyan szintű náluk a hímsovén erőszak militarista kultusza. Ez két olyan nemzet, ahol az egyéniség fogalmát nem is ismerik, csak a külföldiek iránti udvariasságból van rá egyáltalán szavuk! A japán Liberális Demokrata párt, pedig egy olyan nacionalista és konzervatív frakciókból összeálló állampárt, amire több generáció óta engedelmesen szavaznak a japánok, mert fel se merül bennük 2009-ig, hogy a demokrácia parlamenti váltógazdaságot vagy eltérő véleményeket és más hülyeségeket jelentene.

A szülők leszarják, az iskola meg a szakkörök ajánlanak a kölyköknek táborokat, aztán ők meg a szülők felé könyörögnek, hogy mi az ami éppen szimpatikus neki, vagy ahova Józsi és Mari is mennek.

A liberális szülők lehet a szabaelvű gyereknevelés szabálytalansága alapján, de a felelős szülők megnézik hova adják a gyerekeiket és legfőképp miért, mert van ez az elavult provinciális szokásuk, hogy gyereknevelés, ami magába foglalja a gyerek által elsajátítandó információk szülők által megszabott halmazát is.

[Windblower]

Any form of future forecasts is not more serious then saying the next week lottery numbers or getting an exact direction in climate change forecasts in advance.

Europe is not infiltrated so deeply as Blogen tries to show, there are huge rural areas in all western countries, where life is showing its really pleasant face. Who cares about the New York ghettos and slums when living in Oregon, and who cares about the moslims of the Ruhr-region when living in Oberammergau...

At the other hand the economic development of China is simply overheated and costs millions of lifes, while serving mostly very rich investors from the western hemisphere... but who cares about lives, if profit is suspected.

The Hungarian people have a strange language. It is partially of turc and protoslavic, partially of ugrian, partially of unknown origin. Language is however only one factor, genetics is another one. Genetically we are mostly dinaridan people with some (in some parts of the country significant) asian genom part.

Socially we are without any doubt europeans and christians. Being at weekend an arrow-horseman is a beautiful hobby, like fox-hunting in Britain, but nothing more. When sending kids to summer holidays it is of course more interresting for a kid to play warrior and living in a jurt, than going to computer camp and living in normal rooms. Youth and adventure belong together, it is evidence. Earlier an indian camp was an alternative to a pioneer camp, by the way those pioneer camps were not that bad at all, as far as i remember the girls

So i do not believe a word from the fall of Europe and the rise of Asia. This is simple economic matter and a political dream of a single person will not influence, that the balance changes from time to time. Hungary may search and build economic connection towards China, but will never be able to cut the ropes to Europe which is present in our forgardens.

BTW from 1st of May 2011 the German and Austrian work is completely open for Hungarians. That is where we naturally belong. I do not know, how much Hungarians work in China, but do hardly estimate a large number...

[RawLee]

Lol @ partly unknown. Azért ez nem sámli, hogy a nyelvünk egy nagy részéről nem tudjuk, honnan jött. Lehet Ferminek van igaza?

[ban Bank]

Originally Posted by Bomarr

Vidéken élek, vidéken él a legtöbb rokonom (Magyarországon + Erdélyben) és pont abból látom, hogy ha el is mennek egy táborba nyilazni, totál nem érzik magukat ázsiainak vagy ázsiai gyökerűnek.

Nézd, én sem érzem magam ázsiainak, de Ázsiához is kötődöm, nemcsak Európához. Erre persze büszke is vagyok.

Nem lehet letagadni ázsiai, ha úgy tetszik turáni múltunkat. Ez ma is velünk él.
- Csak a népzenénket említem. Totálisan különbözik bármely európai nép zenéjétől, beleértve a finnugorokat is. Ez bizony turáni zene. Cáfolni felesleges.
- Vagy vegyük a népművészeti motívumokat. Turáni motívum szinte mind.
- Népmesei elemek... Van, ami nem keletről származik?
- Eredetmondáink, származástudat... Abszolút kelet.
- Vegyünk valami modernebbet! Építészet a XIX-XX. században. A magyar szecesszió egyik jellegzetessége az orientalizmus, ezzel egyértelműen elüt az európaitól, éppen ezért sajátosan magyar.

Egy személyes példát is hadd mondjak. Engem mindig jobban érdekeltek a Közép-Ázsiáról szóló ismeretterjesztő filmek. A sztyeppei népek kultúrája számomra izgalmasabb, mint egy francia katedrális építéséről szóló film. Kéretik a Duna TV-t nézni, ott gyakran vetítenek ilyesmit, még kazah és azeri estre is emlékszem.
Maguk a sztyeppei emberek is őszintébbnek tűnnek nekem. Soha nem éreztem őszinte érdeklődésnek, amikor valamilyen nyugat-európai kíváncsiskodott felőlünk, inkább csak az érdek vagy a kötelező udvariasság érződött, míg egy kazahtól például valódi ölelést kapsz. Ez személyes tapasztalatom (sajnos nem Kazahsztánban ).

Még valami...
Érdekes, hogy ázsiai eredetünket keleten jobban számon tartják. Néhány példa:
- Egyszer mutattak egy magyar expedíció által készített filmet az ujgúrokról. Egy idős bácsika mondta benne: „Önök magyarok messze távolra kerültek tőlünk, ha úgy gondolják nyugodtan visszajöhetnek, van itt hely mindkettőnk számára.” (Mikor fogsz hasonló baráti üzenetet hallani „kedves” szomszédainktól?)
- Kirgizisztánban ma is tanítanak egy népmesét az ottani általános iskolákban, amely elmeséli, hogy valamikor nagyon régen mi magyarok és ők, kirgízek együtt vadásztunk a Jenyiszej alsó folyásánál. Majd mi messze nyugatra, ők pedig délnyugatra vándoroltak a mai hazájukba.
- Kínában az általános iskolában kötelező memoriter Petőfi Sándor Szabadság, szerelem! című verse. Gondoljunk bele, 1 milliárd ember ismeri!!!
- Japánban úgy tartják, hogy valamikor Mandzsúriában a távoli múltban szomszédos népek voltunk. Ma a Kodály-módszer szerint oktatják a japán gyerekeket zenére. Egyik ismert népdalunkat (ugyan japán szöveggel) megtanítják nekik. Ha jól tudom, ez a népdal teljesen megegyezik egy ujgúr népdallal is dallamában, csak szövegében térnek el.

[Windblower]

A népzenei és nyelvtani (ami nem egyenlő a közvetlen nyelvi kapoccsal!) kötődés nem vitatható. A turáni eredet kérdése azonban erősen vitatott. Magam sem elutasítani, sem elfogadni nem tudom saját kútfőből a hipotézist, de utána fogok nézni.

Kezdetnek egy 1925-ös vélemény, Schmidt József tollából. A szöveg alapján ő nem lehetett a turanizmus nagy barátja .

Tudtok megbízható forrásokat a turáni eredet mellett? Bármely honlap érdekel, a kurucinfon van néhány érdekes link, az a baj, hogy a források kicsit körbehivatkoznak egymásra.

[blogen_]

1. Területileg Turánból érkeztünk, az ázsiai őshaza Turán északi részén található.
2. A honfoglalók embertanilag a turáni ősárja Andronovói kultúrára visszavezethető uráli vagy andronovói típusba tartoztak, akárcsak ókori szomszédaink a szarmaták.
3. Kulturálisan a turáni eredetű török kultúra is nagy hatást gyakorolt ránk, a honfoglalók esetében domináns volt.
4. A nyelvünk a turáni nyelvek (török, mongol, (finn-)ugor, mandzsu nyelvek közé tartozik)

Természetesen a pántörök etnikai turanizmusról szó sincs, de a magyar kulturális turanizmusról igen.

[ban Bank]

Originally Posted by blogen_

Természetesen a pántörök etnikai turanizmusról szó sincs, de a magyar kulturális turanizmusról igen.

Így van. Engem mindig megdöbbent, hogy egyesek mindig etnikai turanizmusban gondolkodnak, holott valójában erről szó sincs. Kizárólag kulturális kapcsolatról van szó.
Bár egyes honfoglaló törzsek, vagy legalábbis a vezető réteg türk származásáról nem lehet kétségünk. Talán még az Árpádok esetében sem. De ez már sikamlós terep.

Személy szerint én nagyon sajnálom, hogy az avarok nyelvéről vajmi keveset tudunk, úgy vélem sok meglepetést tartogatna számunkra. De jó, ez már totál más téma...

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Bikes

You must be kidding

He certainly has to

I am still surprised how this turanic-asian continuity is still in presence in Hungary, in the same country where there is a complete lack of any cultural continuity from the pre-settling times. Nowadays Magyars have very far from their genetic ancestors though they are glorified on Hosok Ter.

Magyars are the are the same mix as we are. Mix of Germans, Slavs and Jews. Surnames like Tóth or Horváth being one of the most frequent in Hungary are great proofs of this.
Even the language is not genuine one as it was deeply influenced by slavic, germanic and latin languages, though origins of the language and it´s basics is still different from Indo-European branch.

Might be that origin of Old Magyars is somewhere from Khanti-Mansi region (as it is supposed to be), but that is only and issue dealing with origin of language. Culture is by far different and fully European deeply influenced by Slavic customs.

[Windblower]

Plenty of Slovaks are singing folk-songs like it would be theirs. And it is ours, it is pentatonic. Or maybe it belongs to both of us, because You do not have less hungarian blood in Your family trees, then we have, only much more on your ground. Most Slovakians have at least one Hungarian granma or granpa or cousins. Bilingualism was absolute natural in the medieval Hungary, at least latin was spoken as second language by clerks, citoyens and nobles.

The panslavism is a strong idea, it is good feeling, i guess, to have an older brother, who protects You, tiny Slovaks, like Russia or Czechia. You had luck with the big brother, yeah... protection for 50 years. at least You could directly understand the commands...

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Windblower

We face a splitted Europe with strengthening problems caused by lack of MONEY, but it is Europe at least. And if this economic situation will change we may consider that their money is not so bad... see tenderimg for new trams and trolley cars.

Maybe China is not that true friend, but maybe has its own hidden plans as well. That is my fear. Wait and see. For China 1 year or 1 thousand years are the same.

Europe is agonized in socialistic corruption, desperate natality and lack of morality. It is not only a question of money but mainly customs which had changed dramatically since Europe got used into immigration from outside enjoying it´s own wealth after WW2. What happened that time reflects nowadays in a trend leading to a complete catastrophe. It is not only a question of a unity of Europe (which since fall of Roman Empire was never a fact) but mainly a way of life in Europe. And now I am speaking mainly about Western Europe with it´s life on a debt that became a custom throughout years supported by immigrants.
Once I have read a very good article in a Slovak magazine .týždeň (.week) where it was shown "expressis verbis" how the life in Western Europe looked like for decades. Almost 70 years the Western Europeans were born into a paradise where the state told them "You don´t have any responsibility, if you are unemployed the good father state will take care of you, if you need house the good father state will support you to have one, you can study as much as you want, because good father state will guide your study with a reasonable financial help" And so on. This of course cost a horrible amount of money. And when the good father state found out that this system is unsustainable it wanted to adopt some reforms. But what happened..people got used to on this life such deeply that any reform did not encounter understanding and so major strikes and demonstrations appeared. So the good father state had keep it´s mouth shut up. It was only a matter of time. And the first example was Greece and others are following. With growing influence of Islam the Old Europe is condemned to death (crucify me if you want).
The same example is a "social welfare" state called United States of America. By far the most irresponsible state ever leading this world.

Chinese know two skills and they know quite well: How to spare and how to copy. And in distinction from USA they are readable. I still remember an interview with ordinary Americans questioned on streets of American cities about other possible enemies of America. Names like Italy and Germany was nothing to be surprised of in this interview. Quite a threat for Europe knowing how simple American crowd is.
China is readable however it does sound very naive, but it is. They don´t want military annexation or any regime placement, they want business. So they know quite well how do adapt in 21st century..And if they know how to make business better than Europe, which wanted us in a project called EU only because of a cheap workforce and new markets then f... it all and the whole Europe..

See this
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0963807/
nothing in connection with a possible conspirations, just a naked horrible facts..

yeah Windblower btw: Finally I found our old discussion, about Slovaks and Magyars so I will reply in PM I apologize for leaving you without response such a long time.

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Windblower

Plenty of Slovaks are singing folk-songs like it would be theirs. And it is ours, it is pentatonic. Or maybe it belongs to both of us, because You do not have less hungarian blood in Your family trees, then we have, only much more on your ground. Most Slovakians have at least one Hungarian granma or granpa or cousins. Bilingualism was absolute natural in the medieval Hungary, at least latin was spoken as second language by clerks, citoyens and nobles.

Nothing to disagree on..
We are not pretending to be something special as in our eyes you are pretending.

The panslavism is a strong idea, it is good feeling, i guess, to have an older brother, who protects You, tiny Slovaks, like Russia or Czechia. You had luck with the big brother, yeah... protection for 50 years. at least You could directly understand the commands...

Believe or not, Slovaks and Czechs were only abusing this idea and never supported it in reality. We have very cold attitude to this idea. Slovaks generally are very ignorant nation. If it comes to our neighbours we are familiar only with Czechs. Quite a shame I would say...
And if we are tiny or not (and be sure that we are a shit of Europe and we know it ), we still think to be a belly of Europe. And we have still such rudeness to say that "No we won´t give any money to lazy Greece" or to say "No Moscow, we won´t support wide-rail project". Maybe it is a very short-blinded attitude.

And as for the ironical part of your comment dear Windblower some history. After WW2 there were elections in both countries, Slovakia and Czech countries. In Slovakia the result was desperate for communists, DS (Democratic Party) was given 64% of the votes. Communists around 30%. But because in Czech countries communists won and the country was leaded by brutal pragocentrism (which was disadvantage not only to Slovakia) we had to bow down and accept communistic dictate. But Velvet Revolution started in Bratislava and year before it Candle Demonstration took place. Brutally surpressed by the government.

[Windblower]

I did not want to offend You. It is the shame of our system that we invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968.

All other points are more relevant. For example, probably we had some slavic influence, but less than expected. For example our word Péntek (Patek) comes much more directly from the Greek (Penta = Pat' = Öt) then from slavic, just like our word Szombat comes much more directly from the hebreish Sabbath then from the slavic Subota. And this name of Saturday is in relation with our word Free = Szabad, as in the traditional calendar (before Christianity) Zabbath was the free (Szabad) day of the week. Now, we are here since at least 1100 years and we got that day-names from the Greeks and Jews we met first here in the Carpathian Lowlands. Interesting... Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

I would be really interested, how old are the first proven slavic words. It seems, that german and slavic has common roots (Sun - sonne - solnce, Mother - Mutter - Mat", Son - Sohn - sin) and teherfore the independent slavic is a relatively new language (2-3 thousand years old?).

[AnOldBlackMarble]

How did this crazy nonsensical thread get started in the Romanian forum? I think this thread should be moved home, to Hungary.

Thank you.

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Windblower

I did not want to offend You. It is the shame of our system that we invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Kadár was the only official to warn Dubcek before invasion, so all is ok. You had to take place, because of Moscow...

All other points are more relevant. For example, probably we had some slavic influence, but less than expected. For example our word Péntek (Patek) comes much more directly from the Greek (Penta = Pat' = Öt) then from slavic, just like our word Szombat comes much more directly from the hebreish Sabbath then from the slavic Subota. And this name of Saturday is in relation with our word Free = Szabad, as in the traditional calendar (before Christianity) Zabbath was the free (Szabad) day of the week. Now, we are here since at least 1100 years and we got that day-names from the Greeks and Jews we met first here in the Carpathian Lowlands. Interesting... Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

Might be.., we are not studying influence of our language on your language that much. However I have Magyar friend studying linguistic in Budapest who told me that more than 5000 word in your language has clear slovak/slavic basics. He named me examples like deszka, udvar, király, csutortok, péntek, (might that you have truth, I am not familiar with it), utca, oszlop, pénz, szoknya, kulcs, hiba, tancólni, kovács, molnár, kacsa, gomba, uborka, abrosz, zsemle, szalonna, káposzta and many others who I do not remember. He also spoke something about great influence of Eastern-Slovak language (literally a different language) on Magyar in words like macsala, Karácsony, pokróc, kaláka etc.

But there are also some notable words in Slovak language influenced by Magyar one like: čerešne, baňa, gazda, oldomáš, oblok, pohár etc. This are mostly used in archaic Slovak, but some like baňa, čerešne, mačka also in nowadays Slovak.

I would be really interested, how old are the first proven slavic words. It seems, that german and slavic has common roots (Sun - sonne - solnce, Mother - Mutter - Mat", Son - Sohn - sin) and teherfore the independent slavic is a relatively new language (2-3 thousand years old?).

The first written statement was found to be in slovenian language (however there are some debates if this document is not written in slovien language which is a predecessor of Slovak language, but Slovenians claims so).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freising_Manuscripts
They might have origin probably from Great Moravia which also occupied Carinthia that time as part of origin was written in glagolitic script.

[RawLee]

Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble

How did this crazy nonsensical thread get started in the Romanian forum? I think this thread should be moved home, to Hungary.

Thank you.

This is the hungarian forum.

[ban Bank]

Originally Posted by Windblower

Plenty of slavic words are from the Bulgarians from some 2500 ago...

From the Turkic Bulgars?

[Windblower]

Originally Posted by Ubertino de Casale

...more than 5000 word in your language has clear slovak/slavic basics. He named me examples like deszka, udvar, király, csutortok, péntek, (might that you have truth, I am not familiar with it), utca, oszlop, pénz, szoknya, kulcs, hiba, tancólni, kovács, molnár, kacsa, gomba, uborka, abrosz, zsemle, szalonna, káposzta and many others who I do not remember. He also spoke something about great influence of Eastern-Slovak language (literally a different language) on Magyar in words like macsala, Karácsony, pokróc, kaláka etc.

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic. However i do not exclude the possibility. BTW have protoslavs been orthodoxes? How and when did they become roman catholics? Cyrill and Method were both orthodox priests...

What the heck means macsala? I have never heard this word before and do not understand it ...

But there are also some notable words in Slovak language influenced by Magyar one like: čerešne, baňa, gazda, oldomáš, oblok, pohár etc. This are mostly used in archaic Slovak, but some like baňa, čerešne, mačka also in nowadays Slovak.

No doubt about this, dear Ubertino.

The first written statement was found to be in slovenian language (however there are some debates if this document is not written in slovien language which is a predecessor of Slovak language, but Slovenians claims so). They might have origin probably from Great Moravia which also occupied Carinthia that time as part of origin was written in glagolitic script.

Well, written slavic and hungarian are about the same age then, since first hungarian written latin letter sentences are in the Founding Letter of the Tihany Abbey (BTW Tihany is from the slavic word tychy = csendes) from 1055, but some runic written hungarian sentences are known already from the 5th(!) - to the 8th century - not counting the older ones, because they are scientifically not proved.
Late avar runic script

I was much more wondering about the history of the spoken slavic language, from which time do we have evidences about slavic-speaking peoples? At the fall of Rome they have not been in Middle-Europe yet (they were recorded by Plinius on the same area where we were that time) and suddenly (within 3 centuries) they were there? Maybe they came with avars, at around the 6th century? There are evidences about the avar-hungarian continuity, much more then about the continuity between huns and magyars...

[Ubertino de Casale]

Originally Posted by Windblower

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic. However i do not exclude the possibility. BTW have protoslavs been orthodoxes? How and when did they become roman catholics? Cyrill and Method were both orthodox priests...

Cyril and Method were south-Slavic (possibly Bulgarians) living in Solún (Slovak name for Thessalonike) and as such they were orthodoxy, but they came to catholized Great Moravia. You have to understand that Moravia Magna had been using catholic liturgy because of the Frankish Influence as it´s main rival was Eastern Frankish Empire which had some ambition to convert and culturally annex Moravia Magna through it´s priests spreading liturgy here. The problem was with different language which was latin and therefore foreign to the people. Cyril and Method did not came to change the religion (or better Church) of Sloviens but to translate latin liturgy to our language and in addition to create glagolitic script (later transformed by succesors of Constantinus (previous name of Cyril) to current Azbuka (in Bulgaria still called Cyrilic alphabet).
And after some diplomatic struggling and Method´s journey to Rome, the slovien liturgy was officialy recognized as one of the 3 in Europe by pope Hadrianus II.
Sloviens (Slovaks) remain Catholics, until Magyars came. It is truth that King Stephen I. the Saint was a Catholic but later orientation of Slovaks and Magyars became clearly lutheranic. Even the greatest Slovaks were lutherans (so as were Magyars). Maybe in this is a reason for peaceful coexistence and cooperation between Slovaks and Magyars for ages, which was not in presence in Transylvania were orthodoxy Vlachs were living.

For interest, here is image of glagolitic script dating from mid 10th century, from Moravia Magna found on Mt. Athos peninsula.

What the heck means macsala? I have never heard this word before and do not understand it ...

might be that I do not remember it properly, I am therefore sorry for the mistake..
as for štvrtok
štvrť in Slovak means 1/4, a fourth day of the week, it might have russian influence but I doubt it as the last three days of week have clear numerical meaning
Streda= deriving from word stred=middle
Štvrtok= deriving from mentioned 1/4
Piatok = päť=5, 5th day, but origin might be also latin, penta..

Well, written slavic and hungarian are about the same age then, since first hungarian written latin letter sentences are in the Founding Letter of the Tihany Abbey (BTW Tihany is from the slavic word tychy = csendes) from 1055, but some runic written hungarian sentences are known already from the 5th(!) - to the 8th century - not counting the older ones, because they are scientifically not proved.
Late avar runic script

There are yet not proven evidences about Slavs having runic script before they adopt Christianity. However they remain only as rumours having basics in early medieval sources and specially source of the bishop Thietmar of Merseburg, describing a temple on the island of Rügen, a Slavic pagan stronghold, remarked that the idols there had their names carved out on them ("singulis nominibus insculptis" Chronicon 6:23 and also mentioned by The 9th century Bulgarian writer, Chernorizets Hrabar in his О писменех (An Account of Letters). In this book he briefly mentioned that, before the introduction of Christianity, Slavs used a system he had dubbed "strokes and incisions" or "tallies and sketches" in some translations (Old Church Slavonic: чръты и рѣзы). He also provided information critical to Slavonic palaeography with his book.

As for Tihany being having slavic name it is funny how the language changes through ages. For example Esztergom is derived from the slovien fortress of Magna Moravia called Stregom, however current Slovak name for this town is Ostrihom. Country around Balaton was first a settlement and a seat of Pribina´s son Kocel (mentioned also in Slovenian history) so the old slovien influence is not surprising. Same in towns like Nyiregyhaza or Debrecen.

I was much more wondering about the history of the spoken slavic language, from which time do we have evidences about slavic-speaking peoples? At the fall of Rome they have not been in Middle-Europe yet (they were recorded by Plinius on the same area where we were that time) and suddenly (within 3 centuries) they were there? Maybe they came with avars, at around the 6th century? There are evidences about the avar-hungarian continuity, much more then about the continuity between huns and magyars...

It is said that Slavs were comming to current territories of the Slavic settlement in the 5th century from the region between Wisla and Dnieper rivers. However this is only one theory and the real old father country of Slavs remain unknown. Some of very crazy theories in Slovakia, Czech Republic describe aparent similairy between Slavic languages and Etruscan language.
However this is same crazyness as Magyar-Scythian-Sumerian similarity theories.
And as for Avars. Avars came from Asia and possibly they origined from the same Onoguric tribe as Magyars and proto Bulgarians therefore it could have some similarity in languages. In Asia nothing to be surprised of I suppose.

[ban Bank]

Originally Posted by Windblower

Four in slovakian is štyri (négy). Csütörtök is equivalent to Stvrtok but sounds much more originating from old russian word Четверг (fourth day) then after the slovakian Štvrtok, which sounds much more similar to the hungarian pronounciation then to the old slavic.

Csütörtök and péntek are a words of South Slavic origin (<= četvrtak, petak).

četvrti = negyedik => četvrtak = csütörtök (negyedik nap)