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Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:44 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce.Tenmile View Post
and I really don't think that anyone who isn't Russian has voted for something just because it's in their country.
There you go again, Bruce. There you go again.
If there was a Complete Idiot's Guide to Offending People For No Good Reason you should've been an author.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:26 PM   #442
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There you go again, Bruce. There you go again.
If there was a Complete Idiot's Guide to Offending People For No Good Reason you should've been an author.
Well maybe it came out wrong, I'm sorry man, maybe it wasn't you, but there were many posts explicitly stating 'Russia Rules!' 'USA SUCKS!!' etc, whereas there've been no or fewer 'USA Rules!' or any other country.

You can't tell me some people didn't vote for CoC just because it was in Russia. I didn't mean offence, I just didn't want to say NOBODY had done that because it wasn't true.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:17 PM   #443
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I've had a change of heart. The Burj Khalifa does deserve to win. I'll vote for it in the final, but not before.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:21 PM   #444
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Hahaha, what happened ?
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:14 PM   #445
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Hahaha, what happened ?
I put the 4 likely semi-finalists together on a skyscraperpage diagram and just seeing the staggering height of it, and I guess seeing it divorced from it's environment, I dunno, it just seemed like maybe it was a far greater building than I'd given it credit for. Whilst the ESB is beautiful and was, I think, a way more impressive achievement at the time than the Burj is now, I prefer glass to stone, and I dunno, I've just decided I'll vote for it, but I reiterate, only in the final. The Chrysler will get my vote in the semi, though that'll make no difference, and then the Burj in the final.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:22 PM   #446
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I have stressed so many times there should be a comparison diagram in sizes, so people can weigh in the factor of difference in size when making the final decision.

I mean seriously Chrysler just look like a toy standing next to the Burj.. IMO that single factor outweighs everything else.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:46 PM   #447
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I have stressed so many times there should be a comparison diagram in sizes, so people can weigh in the factor of difference in size when making the final decision.

I mean seriously Chrysler just look like a toy standing next to the Burj.. IMO that single factor outweighs everything else.
Well if height is the most important factor to you, that's really odd. You think the Twin Towers were nicer than the Chrysler Building too? They were just boxes, but they were way taller. What about new buildings. You like modern stuff, you like the WTC more than any shorter modern buildings because it's taller?

I'm just interested. It seems an odd viewpoint.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 04:36 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
I have stressed so many times there should be a comparison diagram in sizes, so people can weigh in the factor of difference in size when making the final decision.

I mean seriously Chrysler just look like a toy standing next to the Burj.. IMO that single factor outweighs everything else.
a) If they're all categorized as "Supertall" then what more do you need?

b) You realize that pictures can distort perception and that this forum and the web are full of additional information about each building, right?

c) (Most important) Seriously? You're overriding factor is total height? What about architectural quality? What about context or artistic theme? What about individuality and iconic presence? What about innovation?

It's one thing to embrace a superficial award such as this opinion-based poll, but I'd like to think that in an architectural forum the bases for these opinions would be more than the length of a shadow.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 04:51 PM   #449
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Well, I'll tell you why a diagram of comparation in height would not be good.

It seems to me stupid that people vote for one that is, much more or less, taller. Because, everyone knows the actual height of every skyscraper or supertall here, no matter the comparation. So, this contest would be quite unnecessary and pointless. Then, we should immediately say that the Burj is a winner and end the whole story.

Here, we are making the comparation among supertalls (300m- ) in architecture, significance, broken records in the time it was built, and all other aspects. But, that is my opinion.

Last edited by Felipe_BG; June 23rd, 2011 at 04:58 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by Bruce.Tenmile View Post
Well if height is the most important factor to you, that's really odd. You think the Twin Towers were nicer than the Chrysler Building too? They were just boxes, but they were way taller. What about new buildings. You like modern stuff, you like the WTC more than any shorter modern buildings because it's taller?

I'm just interested. It seems an odd viewpoint.
Height is just as important as any other factor, what i was saying in the case of Burj vs. Chrysler, the difference in size is so huge it makes all other factors seems insignificant.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #451
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Height is just as important as any other factor, what i was saying in the case of Burj vs. Chrysler, the difference in size is so huge it makes all other factors seems insignificant.
Well you said 'IMO that single factor outweighs everything else.' I know you meant in that particular instance, but that's still messed up. I have now decided I will vote for the Burj in the final regardless of what it's against, but not because it's the tallest as with you.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:37 AM   #452
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That ******* glass cucumber is almost tied with ESB. I cannot believe this website.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:37 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
a) If they're all categorized as "Supertall" then what more do you need?

b) You realize that pictures can distort perception and that this forum and the web are full of additional information about each building, right?

c) (Most important) Seriously? You're overriding factor is total height? What about architectural quality? What about context or artistic theme? What about individuality and iconic presence? What about innovation?

It's one thing to embrace a superficial award such as this opinion-based poll, but I'd like to think that in an architectural forum the bases for these opinions would be more than the length of a shadow.
a) You tell me.

b) Exactly, pictures do distort perceptions, for example Burj looks the same height as Chrysler in the voting pictures, thats why we need a comparison diagram to give voters a true and faith view.

c) Right.... architectural quality, artistic theme, individuality and innovation. Please just give me an example of how you would compare Burj vs. Chrysler based on these factors you have stated. I am very interested to see.

I think you should just relax a bit, no need to write a 5000 words essay on each single poll.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:40 AM   #454
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That ******* glass cucumber is almost tied with ESB. I cannot believe this website.
Guangzhou IFC doesnt really deserve to be in the quarter final.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:44 AM   #455
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Well you said 'IMO that single factor outweighs everything else.' I know you meant in that particular instance, but that's still messed up. I have now decided I will vote for the Burj in the final regardless of what it's against, but not because it's the tallest as with you.
If there was a second tallest say 100m short of Burj going against Burj, i would reconsider many other things as the difference in height is not so significant that could override other factors.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #456
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Guangzhou IFC doesnt really deserve to be in the quarter final.
i think its quite a nice building, and after the shock of SWFC, ICC and T101 exiting the contest earlier than i expected. i'm happy it made its way and is only with few votes losing against ESB
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Old June 24th, 2011, 02:29 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
a) You tell me.
The question was rhetorical as no other criterion had been/need be established. This web site has a definition for what it calls "supertall."
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b) Exactly, pictures do distort perceptions, for example Burj looks the same height as Chrysler in the voting pictures, thats why we need a comparison diagram to give voters a true and faith view.
This is merely a play to your emphasis on height. Any such pre-packaged diagram or presnetation would still fail to fully represent each structure depending on the criterion, hence the emphasis for the jurors to go forth and learn what they need to learn about each project.
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c) Right.... architectural quality, artistic theme, individuality and innovation. Please just give me an example of how you would compare Burj vs. Chrysler based on these factors you have stated. I am very interested to see.
Fair enough. Off the cuff - The Burj is supremely innovative as a feat of engineering but average in its architectural styling. There is little that is culturally or design-wise groundbreaking as a tower. Freed from a more urban setting and given the overall footprint, the designers amiably emphasized the ambition of wanting to be "The Tallest," and as such struck a fair balance between classic skyscraper form and it's aspirations for the site. From ground level the setbacks among the varying levels are over-emphasized on purpose to increase the effect of the perspective upward, which appears very dynamic.

The Burj is somewhat disadvantaged, however, because the context is relatively undefined. (Some have argued they played it too safe.) The aerial elements, such as the spire and crown for each ledge, are average but, given the overall form, do display a nice efficiency. Perhaps the architect was not wanting to take away from the visual impact of the buildings height, but there are few/no elements giving the viewer pause within the base of the structure, a shortcoming for something so difficult to view in a single frame. The base, meanwhile, plays out as a generic resort theme for the particular location. Granted, perhaps they were limited by budget, codes, developer's wishes, but there is little at the pedestrian level that equals the structure's impact on the skyline. Which leaves one to ask: Could this form work if it was more common in height?

Comparatively, the Chrysler came about under decidedly different circumstances and for a different purpose. Despite competing with the ESB for being the tallest the form is decidedly more pure: They weren't amending the structure simply because their neighbors added a spire. The structure features only modest innovations for the time, mostly in refinements of the framing and cladding to include (supposedly) more efficient and aesthetically pleasing windows while still maintaining the visual weight of its NYC predecessors.

The form is basic, proportioned with Sullivan-esque ideals and then amended to take on the art deco stylings and ornamentation. Some would argue those elements are unnecessary, but clearly they added to the building's iconography and remained true to the decoration present throughout the form. The spire also strikes a fine accord between unique and timely (rounded crown, triangular windows) but linked with classic form (steeple tower). It could be said this building truly started the trend of a business wanting to make their brand a recognizable image on the skyline, and did so without needing neon letters like today.

The Chrysler also marked a new level of office efficiency for such structures, due in part to the design. Unlike the ESB and it's efforts to be more "all things to all people," the Chrysler was being a simple office structure and little more.

That's what I can ponder in ten minutes.

- - - -

This isn't to say any of these structures are bad or that I don't like them, and having struggled to sustain an architectural career I appreciate any of these things that the architect was able to see come to fruition. Especially in a day and age where they have more and more constraints on their practice. But if we're basing this stuff on just height then we don't need to have a poll or a rankings, we simply need a measuring stick and to list them from tallest to shortest.
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I think you should just relax a bit, no need to write a 5000 words essay on each single poll.
I come here for the discourse and hope to learn from others each and every time. If all people are going to post is "This building sucks!" then why bother?
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Old June 24th, 2011, 02:53 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by Bruce.Tenmile View Post
Well maybe it came out wrong, I'm sorry man, maybe it wasn't you, but there were many posts explicitly stating 'Russia Rules!' 'USA SUCKS!!' etc, whereas there've been no or fewer 'USA Rules!' or any other country.

You can't tell me some people didn't vote for CoC just because it was in Russia. I didn't mean offence, I just didn't want to say NOBODY had done that because it wasn't true.
Speaking as a Russian, these people are idiots, please disregard them. Voting on a tower just because it's in your country rather than on any actual architectural merit is asinine and should be quantitatively discounted. For me to have voted CoC they would have had to be located in Russia, designed by Russians (architect/engineer) and built by Russians...and even then, I probably still would have voted for the Empire State Building. CoC was designed by Westerners and built with a great deal of immigrant labor.

Most of the towers going up in China, Middle East and East Asia are designed by American/European architects, so why get nationalistic?
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:12 AM   #459
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That ******* glass cucumber is almost tied with ESB. I cannot believe this website.



from http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...95379&page=295

I dunno, I think it looks pretty decent as long you're not looking at it from ground level. If you shopped the ESB into this pic, I'd have a hard time choosing (btw I called it a cucumber in the comments too lol, comment #3 by Accel is from another Russian and огурец = cucumber). The pic they have for the competition is definitely ugly.

A lot of idiot Chinese nationalists stroking their pen0rs in the comments

Plus, don't forget that we have a lot of anti-Americans on this website
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:18 AM   #460
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Plus, don't forget that we have a lot of anti-Americans on this website
I am not American, but I agree. Many people, even when voting for daily banners, try to - in a silly way - make their discontent with US voting low on their banners.
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