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Old July 14th, 2011, 09:40 PM   #1261
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Go Petronas GO!
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Old July 14th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #1262
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Quote:
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what building did the chrysler race against for tallest title ?
That was 40 Wall Street. There is a real good book about that story if you're into reading.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 09:52 PM   #1263
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Originally Posted by EuropeanChancellor View Post
A long history itself doesn´t make a beautiful building
Nor does height.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 09:59 PM   #1264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myf282828 View Post
Petronas towers are the tallest buildings in the 20th century. And twins. Enough said.
Petronas towers are the key defendant in the incredibly controversial spires vs roof debate. When built, 3 other skyscrapers already had higher roofs, and 2 of them (Sears and One WTC) also had significantly higher pinnacles.

Here is the diagram http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=51401263

While not the fault of the buildings themselves, I think allowing spires to count over roofs was a poor decision by the CTB. Many people often look at buildings with spires and think "gee, it looks short for an ABC'/meter building." Even in the picture posted on the previous page of all the tall world buildings together, there was clear confusion on the actual relative heights of these towers next to each other. At this point, if somebody could construct a 2800' spire on top of a small house, we would have a new WTB! 2 floors with a roof of 25', but tallest building! Honestly, I hate that that's what happened.

Here is the most egregious example of a BS Supertall...
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=51401358
Why should that stick count more than the significantly thicker (and basically permanent) antennas on Willis, JHC, etc?

Sorry Petronas, but this will ALWAYS be the first thing I think about in regards to those towers. Great buildings, but flat out stole the title of WTB and ruined the criteria in the process. Now we are seeing who can tack the biggest pole on top of their buildings, great...

Now Chrysler, w/out spire, wouldn't even be a supertall either, but it didn't use it to break the record of an "actually" bigger building. In 1998, after Sears had a 24 year reign, our WTB's somehow got shorter.

Last edited by DZH22; July 14th, 2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #1265
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Very good and informative post. Picture says everything, really

I always compare by roof height before taking spires into account, I also try to find the highest "walkable" floor (ie floor that a person can access and walk around in without special equipment, even if it's mechanical/engineering) and highest floor that an elevator goes to.

Spires add an immense amount of beauty to certain buildings that would look extremely ugly without them (eg Ping'an) but really shouldn't be counted for height.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:12 PM   #1266
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Chrysler know they were racing with 40 wall street for the tallest building. So why did they kept the spire as a secret.
And if CTBUH made a mistake allowing the spire to be counted, the Chrysler would have never been the world tallest building.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:13 PM   #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuropeanChancellor View Post
A long history itself doesn´t make a beautiful building
so ur saying the chrysler is ugly ? in that case you totally have no taste.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasgino View Post
And if CTBUH made a mistake allowing the spire to be counted, the Chrysler would have never been the world tallest building.
It still would have been. This is sorted by roof height...

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=51401538

It just wouldn't have been a Supertall. The WTB at the time would have been considered 925' instead of 1046'. The spire would have also given it the title of world's tallest man-made structure, surpassing the Eiffel Tower.

There are 4 ways to measure a building:
Highest Point
Highest "Architectural" Point (eg spires count, antennas do not)
Roof Height
Highest Occupied Floor

The thing is, there was never any true controversy, because the WTB always just owned all the titles. When Petronas was built, the controversy was that it was only taller by 1 of the 4 measurements (spire) and the CTB then chose to make that measurement the "official" measurement. Now it is much more difficult to compare relative heights of buildings. I can cite countless examples of buildings where 10%, 20% or sometimes even more of their height comes from a relatively brittle spire. Again, why should this be a supertall? http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=51401358

It's unfortunate that Petronas has that negative connotation for me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Regardless, I didn't vote for Chrysler because of that. I voted for Chrysler because it is a legend and a buzzsaw, and I was going to vote for it no matter which opponent it drew.

Last edited by DZH22; July 14th, 2011 at 10:38 PM.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:34 PM   #1269
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But the 40 wall street has world's highest usable floor at that time.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:38 PM   #1270
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so if chrysler count its spire,petronas should count spire..its still the tallest manmade structure that time,and still the tallest twin tower now
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasgino View Post
But the 40 wall street has world's highest usable floor at that time.
If that's true then there would have been the controversy, except it was settled a short year later with ESB It was also less egregious of a comparison.

I am happy that BK has blown them all away and is the no-doubt tallest. If something like Freedom Tower took WTB because of its spire (no BK so over SWFC, ICC, etc) then I would have been pissed about that too. (and I'm an American)
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #1272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy4versa4 View Post
so if chrysler count its spire,petronas should count spire..its still the tallest manmade structure that time,and still the tallest twin tower now
What don't you understand about the fact that it wasn't the tallest structure?
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=51401624

That doesn't even include all the guyed masts over 2000'.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #1273
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ok,sorry,but its still the tallest building,the tallest twin tower,the biggest concrete base,the tallest skybridge,builing with most pieces of glass.even tower1 & 2 was a race.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:49 PM   #1274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy4versa4 View Post
so if chrysler count its spire,petronas should count spire..its still the tallest manmade structure that time,and still the tallest twin tower now
with spires, petronas was technically te tallest building, but nowhere near the tallest structure. Both 1 wtc and sears tower rose over 1700ft with their pinnacles, plus the guyed mast in north dakota that rises 2000ft.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:50 PM   #1275
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That's the point. Some people think negatively about the Petronas. But the fact, Chrysler was the true key of controversial. It kept the spire as a secret and use it to be the WTB.

And yes, the 40 wall street had the world's highest usable floor at that time.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasgino View Post
That's the point. Some people think negatively about the Petronas. But the fact, Chrysler was the true key of controversial. It kept the spire as a secret and use it to be the WTB.

And yes, the 40 wall street had the world's highest usable floor at that time.
Maybe there was a great controversy then, too. However, it wasn't in my lifetime... Also it was literally in the same city, and within a couple feet (the spire did not swing a building with a roof/occupied height over 100' lower than the "shorter" building) and things were settled a year later by another building in the same city. (ESB) I think we would need to find a native New Yorker at least 95 years old to tell us the prevailing sentiment at the time of Chrysler's construction...
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Old July 14th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #1277
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Old July 14th, 2011, 11:36 PM   #1278
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Also, the CTB, I assume, was not around in 1930, so the tower with the highest architectural point was just assumed to be the tallest. After all, I hope I'm right in thinking that no towers at the time had spires or antennas which didn't flow with the building ala NY Times Building, so there was no need to over-think it and come up with all the rules we have now.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 12:12 AM   #1279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasgino View Post
And if CTBUH made a mistake allowing the spire to be counted, the Chrysler would have never been the world tallest building.
Well the CTBUH wasn't around when the Chrysler was built, so you can't really blame them.

Whether or not spires should be counted is something you can debate on forever. Personally I think all spires are just vanity height, but I don't mind the spire on top of the Chrysler being added to the height as it is an indistinguishable part of the appearance, and the history of tall buildings in this particular case.

On the other side of the spectrum, those sticks on top of the Trump Tower in Chicago and the Bank of America in New York are, well, just a stick on top of a building, really. They looks very much out of place when you line the buildings up ranked by spire height, with buildings ranked lower than these looking down on them.

The problem is that you want rules on how to measure buildings to be as clear and decisive as possible, with not too much room for interpretation. The rules as they are now are second best, or maybe even third best, but at least you can work with them.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #1280
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So was Chrysler once the WTB? I have no problem with the Chrysler or Petronas. But if people acknowledge the Chrysler as the once WTB, then the Petronas deserve the same.
But I'm glad that Chrysler was taller then the 40 wall street. I think 40 wall street is ugly. Just my opinion.
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