The SELECT thread...

[mackie1964]

Originally Posted by NEMISIS

I too would urge you all to speak to the Mail. They have legal teams looking at the practices of Sp and SG as we speak.

Anyone who signs the addendum is potentialy giving up the rights of their propoerty to an unknown 3rd party who may further securitise their interests in it. What if this 3rd party were to go bankrupt with their share of your appartment used as security.

Absolutely correct and I have been advised legally not to sign it too. It's clear to me that SG are going to sell the LLP on at a reduced value at some point soon and walk away!!

I have not received anything yet but will not sign it. I would also check all of your payments against what they are asking, their accounts are all over the place, I paid much more than they said I did last time I checked the balance, if compared with all the receipts I got. I just never had the time to sort it out before now

I have been contacted also by a few groups and someone from the media but, I have no interest in harming SP under the current financial climate despite being very disappointed with their original practices, it will contribute nothing positive to me. I, however, will never forgive SG and shall take them on in the UAE alone and not in a group but will do it at the right time and get the right result, they will not see it coming, I promise.

I have enough information and set aside enough funds to ensure success.

Let the investors get their units here, BC and Botanica first as I promised a few people before I will be the first at that witness stand and I am sure a few here would be too. Some high profile guys in Dubai are not happy with them too, it's only a matter of time

[Rider]

The notice of completion states 'Handover appointments can only be confirmed upon receipt of all signed documents detailed above' i.e. the two addendums.

So, it would appear that LPP owners who don't sign the addendums won't get an appointment to receive their unit.

I'm not paying the OQOOD charge so I'll be interested to hear how the 'phoning the police' route works for LPP owners who won't sign.

[mackie1964]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

Something I don't understand.

The maintenance charges are set at 15.2 and the chiller charges at 5 making a total of 20.2 per sq ft. However, in the Select tenancy agreement for LPP buyers it states:

The Tenant will pay all charges for electricity, water, fuel, gas, sewerage, chilled water and other utilities consumed in the Property, and all charges for telephone communications or other services connected to the Property. The Tenant will pay all Municipality or other taxes, duties, charges and ssessments levied on the Property during the Tenancy Period.

Doe this mean that chiller charges are paid by the tenant, in which case the maintenance charges are effectively only 15.2? However, the chiller charges need to be paid in full before handover. Does this mean the tenant will be paying the charge as well as the owner?

Am I missing something here?

You are assuming that everyone will have a tenant. The unit will be chilled, occupied or not

[Dubai_Steve]

But how can we get handover without signing it?

I assume quite a few will sign, especially those who don't read this forums.

[mackie1964]

You will be amazed how many people read the Torch thread One guy that I met in my office over a year ago had 6 units between family and friends. He does not write here but reads it weekly at least, many more are the same.

There is a contract between two parties. Once I receive my completion notice, I will be ready to receive it within the limitation of the contract, providing all defects have been rectified!

If they refuse to hand me the unit, I know where to go

I am only talking about myself here and not trying to influence anyone

I will be amazed if SP/SG get/have major vote rights, even with the shared ownership/timeshare units considered. They will have a sizeable vote right / say in it supported by the unsuspected

Anyway, go and have a drink and forget about it for the weekend. Have a great weekend everyone

[Mistermark]

Guys,

There have been a couple of posts here recently from people who understandably want to expose SG's conduct to the white light of media scrutiny in the UK. As long-standing members will know, I went some way down that route in the summer of 2009 but backed off when it became clear there wasn't (yet) widespread support for such an action.

It seems to me that the developer's behaviour with regard to The Point and the ongoing delays and unmet deadlines on other projects suggest that there may soon be a consensus in favour of taking such steps. I am a former journalist and have excellent contacts in national newspaper groups and broadcasters which mean I am well placed to lead such a campaign, and as previously mentioned I laid the ground for doing so in the summer of 2009, so can easily revert to the plan if needs be.

For reasons I cannot go into here, I am not able to start such a process right now. However, I anticipate being able to post some information a week today - Friday 22 April - which will be of interest to anyone who is a current or potential customer of Select Group or it subsidiaries. Once you have digested it, please let me know if you would like me to take up the cudgels on your behalf.

Regarding strategy, I agree with Mackie. There is no point going after Select Property, the UK-based sales agent. It is entirely independent of the developer and in many respects is as much a victim of its conduct as we are. Equally, there is no point in seeking to persuade buyers of properties in projects that are well advanced to withhold payment - at this late stage, the least bad outcome for them is that the units are delivered.

Rather, the interests of owners are best served by the developer's actions being placed in the public domain, along with the futility of trying to resolve disputes through the legal system of Dubai. This approach shames Dubai and its leaders in a country that is responsible for much of its inbound investment and tourism, and warns potential investors of the pitfalls of doing business there. The hoped-for outcome, as Mackie says, is for the authorities in Dubai to yank the developer's chain and make it very clear that such conduct, if not remedied, is unlikely to go unpunished.

Rant over. Just a week to go to the 22nd...

[Imre]

Originally Posted by mackie1964

You will be amazed how many people read the Torch thread One guy that I met in my office over a year ago had 6 units between family and friends. He does not write here but reads it weekly at least, many more are the same.

One of the forumers had 6 floors there , any info about him?

[Dubai_Steve]

Originally Posted by Rider

Looks like the OQOOD transaction charge went from AED 295 to 1000 in a short space of time so a nice 200% mark up for Select with them charging AED 3000. The apartments should have been registered when the OQOOD system first came out, not when the building is complete so it's too late to do it now as far as I'm concerned.

[IMG]http://i54.************/15hbqkn.jpg[/IMG]

The above could explain the new oqood charges? due to the change in numbering after you sign the first variation.

Looks like they have to be paid. Well at least they are not AED 5000 that Cayan are charging.

[Caribarra]

Hi All

May I ask, what happens if we don't sign do we simply carry on paying our payment plan and not receive our properties? and for how long, surely some authority there has to step in as this is blackmail - isn't it??????????

PLease advise - - - - - - - --- - -thanks

[Dubai_Steve]

Your current contract says that your handover date must be before 30 business days after you receive written notice of completion unless both parties agree otherwise.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

[IMG]http://i54.************/15hbqkn.jpg[/IMG]

The above could explain the new oqood charges? due to the change in numbering after you sign the first variation.

Looks like they have to be paid. Well at least they are not AED 5000 that Cayan are charging.

But the change in apartmemt numbering was ordered by DEWA after the Developer elected to change the design of the building in order to maximise sales (less 3 beds and more 1 beds). I cannot for the life of me see why owners should have to pay for this.

[mackie1964]

Originally Posted by Rider

But the change in apartmemt numbering was ordered by DEWA after the Developer elected to change the design of the building in order to maximise sales (less 3 beds and more 1 beds). I cannot for the life of me see why owners should have to pay for this.

Not only that, the design was changed many times according to K&A and SG increased the number of floors and units (including commercial units too). These changes were the main contributors for the 3.5 years delay. over 500 investors lost money, SG (and to a degree SP) are making a killing and this has not stopped them from trying to screw us all again. They have no shame and trying to cash in as much as they can before ........... to be continued

I stand corrected with regard to the voting block for the fractional ownership units. It has been brought to my attention (through a PM on this forum) that these votes are under the control of a trustee on behalf of the owners (not sure who this is).

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

[IMG]http://i54.************/15hbqkn.jpg[/IMG]

The above could explain the new oqood charges? due to the change in numbering after you sign the first variation.

Looks like they have to be paid. Well at least they are not AED 5000 that Cayan are charging.

Why would anyone pay for a change they did not ask for? SG/SP were the only beneficial from this change(selling additional units). Don’t believe anything else.

[scoobudubai]

Originally Posted by torchowner

Following the expose' in the March 20th edition of the Mail On Sunday regarding the dealings of Select Property in the UK, journalist Tony Hetherington is now looking into the dealings of both Select Property and the Select Group in the UAE.
If you have bought a property through either, or both of these companies , and feel that you have been misled, lied to or simply not received what you paid for thenTony would like to hear from you.
In the first instance please write to;
Tony Hetherington,
Financial Mail,
2, Derby Street,
London, W8 5TS

We have a lot to say.
Why would Select care about the Mail on Sunday? I have not read it for 20 years. Surely it's The Sunday Times that matters?

I have a lot to say, as I said.

Although, on the other hand, fantastic news torchowner, well done. This is a way forward, and a very good one.

[Mistermark]

Originally Posted by scoobudubai

We have a lot to say.
Why would Select care about the Mail on Sunday? I have not read it for 20 years. Surely it's The Sunday Times that matters?

I have a lot to say, as I said.

Although, on the other hand, fantastic news torchowner, well done. This is a way forward, and a very good one.

I think if we're going to do this, we should use every available channel. Not just newspapers, also TV.

All I ask is, please hold on until next Friday and I will be able to co-ordinate this.

[shakka]

We have all been waiting since 2008 for completion another week is not going to hurt.

[Caribarra]

HI ALL

So are you saying do not sign anything until next week, as I have to be honest im pretty confused about the situation. I have asked my agent for some advice on this.

Am I right in thinking that signing the addendum means that they can reposses my property as they please and not give me my money back, is it that bad????????????

[Sid]

Just an idea... I guess many of us are based in the UK?

If so, is it worth UK oweners meeting in a mutual location (London?) to discuss a way forward?

[Sid]

Originally Posted by torchowner

Following the expose' in the March 20th edition of the Mail On Sunday regarding the dealings of Select Property in the UK, journalist Tony Hetherington is now looking into the dealings of both Select Property and the Select Group in the UAE.
If you have bought a property through either, or both of these companies , and feel that you have been misled, lied to or simply not received what you paid for thenTony would like to hear from you.
In the first instance please write to;
Tony Hetherington,
Financial Mail,
2, Derby Street,
London, W8 5TS

Is there an email address for Tony?

[MANUTD]

Originally Posted by Mistermark

Guys,

There have been a couple of posts here recently from people who understandably want to expose SG's conduct to the white light of media scrutiny in the UK. As long-standing members will know, I went some way down that route in the summer of 2009 but backed off when it became clear there wasn't (yet) widespread support for such an action.

It seems to me that the developer's behaviour with regard to The Point and the ongoing delays and unmet deadlines on other projects suggest that there may soon be a consensus in favour of taking such steps. I am a former journalist and have excellent contacts in national newspaper groups and broadcasters which mean I am well placed to lead such a campaign, and as previously mentioned I laid the ground for doing so in the summer of 2009, so can easily revert to the plan if needs be.

For reasons I cannot go into here, I am not able to start such a process right now. However, I anticipate being able to post some information a week today - Friday 22 April - which will be of interest to anyone who is a current or potential customer of Select Group or it subsidiaries. Once you have digested it, please let me know if you would like me to take up the cudgels on your behalf.

Regarding strategy, I agree with Mackie. There is no point going after Select Property, the UK-based sales agent. It is entirely independent of the developer and in many respects is as much a victim of its conduct as we are. Equally, there is no point in seeking to persuade buyers of properties in projects that are well advanced to withhold payment - at this late stage, the least bad outcome for them is that the units are delivered.

Rather, the interests of owners are best served by the developer's actions being placed in the public domain, along with the futility of trying to resolve disputes through the legal system of Dubai. This approach shames Dubai and its leaders in a country that is responsible for much of its inbound investment and tourism, and warns potential investors of the pitfalls of doing business there. The hoped-for outcome, as Mackie says, is for the authorities in Dubai to yank the developer's chain and make it very clear that such conduct, if not remedied, is unlikely to go unpunished.

Rant over. Just a week to go to the 22nd...

Your not far wrong there Mistermark

I think the authorites there are just STARTING to wake up and smell the coffee a little --NAKHEEL have lost a few cases in ARBITRATION and I am damm sure SG will do too -- IF, that is INVESTORS have the money and balls to take them on !

You're right though as much as SP are optimistic about DUBAI (they have to be really fare doos ? ) they are equally victims too of SELECT GROUP as we are.

[Sheltie]

Originally Posted by Caribarra

HI ALL

So are you saying do not sign anything until next week, as I have to be honest im pretty confused about the situation. I have asked my agent for some advice on this.

Am I right in thinking that signing the addendum means that they can reposses my property as they please and not give me my money back, is it that bad????????????

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is confused here. What will happen if we sign the addendum?
In 2005 I bought 3 apartments in Dubai. One won't be built at all and I paid 50%, which I've probably lost, the second might be ready next year (hopefully) and the 3rd is in The Torch.
I know Select are *** but after 6 years I just feel that I am glad to get the keys for one of them.
Can someone please explain why we shouldn't sign the addendum. I am on SSP.