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Old May 13th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #181
Sven G
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Talking about railways, Henning Makholm has just updated his very detailed Copenhagen trackmap:

http://dk.trackmap.net/a

BTW, the insertion of the new high-speed line into the central station seems to be rather odd: no Richtungsbetrieb (as for the two previous lines)...?

But probably it will also merge with the Øresund line, thus permitting grade-separated access to København H.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven G View Post
Talking about railways, Henning Makholm has just updated his very detailed Copenhagen trackmap:

http://dk.trackmap.net/a

BTW, the insertion of the new high-speed line into the central station seems to be rather odd: no Richtungsbetrieb (as for the two previous lines)...?

But probably it will also merge with the Øresund line, thus permitting grade-separated access to København H.
The old "inbound" track from Sweden will become the outbound track for the new line. When completed, the new inbound track from Sweden will run through the new underpass and will meet up with the inbound track from Ringsted just nex tto the inbound track from Roskilde.

The map is nice, but it contains several smaller errors, unfortunately
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:10 AM   #183
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Thanks for the explanation: and probably it had already been said before, in this or another thread (well, I should have re-read it).

Those small errors probably originate from the fact that the maps are largely based on direct observation (and often also with work in progress).

BTW, I haven't yet found any other trackmaps (on the web) of the Copenhagen area...
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven G View Post
Thanks for the explanation: and probably it had already been said before, in this or another thread (well, I should have re-read it).

Those small errors probably originate from the fact that the maps are largely based on direct observation (and often also with work in progress).

BTW, I haven't yet found any other trackmaps (on the web) of the Copenhagen area...
Well, that is what I don't get. Banedanmark has all the trackinformation in Denmark published in "Trafikal Information om Banestrækningen" (http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/12484/TIBOE_19052012.pdf)

An example of these many small errors can be seen on page 218-33. As you can see there is switches that allow you to go directly from track one to three in Holte, Northbound, which is not marked on the trackmap posted earlier in this thread.

Last edited by Spikespiegel; May 14th, 2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 01:42 PM   #185
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Anyway, here, on his blog, is a description of the recent changes:

http://blog.henning.makholm.net/2012...openhagen.html

The Banedanmark PDF is very interesting, indeed; even if, of course, it's rather of the single lines type (vs. global, all-inclusive maps).

BTW, here is a good trackmap site:

http://www.sporenplan.nl

(Dutch, but with many European countries included).

(I hope we aren't too much OT...)
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Old May 20th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikespiegel View Post
Well, that is what I don't get. Banedanmark has all the trackinformation in Denmark published in "Trafikal Information om Banestrækningen" (http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/12484/TIBOE_19052012.pdf)

An example of these many small errors can be seen on page 218-33. ...
As for "not getting it": these are not so much "errors" as obsolete information. The map for Hellerup-Holte-Hillerød dates back to sketches I made in the late 1990s, before Banedanmark started making TIB available to outsiders.

I'm not routinely using TIB as a source for updates, because (1) there seems to be no way to be notified of changes to it, except to pay money for a paper subscription (which I'm not even sure is available to individuals), and (2) the diagrams in TIB are in some respects less detailed than I like my maps to be. For example, they generally don't show sidings that don't have hovedtogveje, and they don't distinguish between double-slips and pairs of facing switches. I prefer to show an accurate rendering of an old situation compared to up-to-date guesswork.

It is not clear to me what has happened with the crossover at Holte that you point out. It was present in my original sketches from the late 1990s, but disappeared from my map between archive backups taken January 2006 and April 2006, together with a siding east of the northbound main track. Perhaps I simply lost it in the heat of editing?

Last edited by Henning Makholm; May 20th, 2012 at 01:36 AM.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #187
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Well, your trackmaps are very well-made: and that's the most important thing, after all...

BTW, talking about the Øresund line, one wonders why they didn't make the Kastrup Airport station with 4 tracks (with 2 island platforms) from the beginning: were there such space constraints that it couldn't have been made?

Also, they could have made the goods flyover (which they talk about today) right from the beginning, too; or a TGV-like station, with additional bypassing tracks without platforms at the centre (see CDG Airport* or Lille Europe) or at the outside (see Eurodisney**).

The "afterthought" solution of making two additional platforms on the existing goods line is not as elegant, anyway.

* http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/re...e+Gaulle+2+TGV

** http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/re...all%E9e-Chessy
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Old May 20th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #188
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I like these maps - and thanks for posting Henning. Please note that the whole Lersøen area has been completely revamped, with Banedanmark being only a few months away from finalization of their project there.

Sven, sorry to be a little bit direct, but, what planet are you living on?;-) Politics is about who gets what, when - and how. It is never easy to prioritize and decide on these matters - and it is, almost twenty years later, so easy to be wise after the event. You can apply such questions to every single infrastructure project that exists on the planet - why didn't the Great Belt Fixed Link's West Bridge for instance be prepared for high-speed train service? Politicians are rarely foresightful; what they care about - sorry to be a bit simplistic - is getting re-elected and making impacts within that shorter timeframe. They won't be thanked and receive any credits for decisions that will only materialize 20 or 30 years later. Now, that is changing a bit these years with trying to apply longer-term planning approaches (i.e. all Metro stations are prepared for a fourth car to be added to the existing trains at some point, Ørestad Station includes large ground reservations etc. etc.).

BTW, CPH has three runways (technically six).
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Old May 20th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #189
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Yes, I substantially agree with what you say; but, then, I also don't think that it was the politicians themselves who made the projects...

Well, personally I'm more for direct democracy, anyway (politicians won't ever change anything; and representative democracy has degenerated into ochlocracy, in most "evolved" - really? let's rather say big-business-driven, maybe? - western countries): if only people were more interested in the society they live in, we could indeed have a more direct democracy, also with the help of modern communication technologies...

... CPH, indeed, has 3 runways: but the perpendicular one, besides being shorter, is also of lesser use, being heavily limited by the city on one of its sides (with a very longly displaced threshold).

Of course, historically, Kastrup is also the evolution of a former almost star-like layout, with runways for the several wind directions (as also Heathrow, for example): but today, it could maybe be sufficient with the two main runways, as has happened also for Heathrow (the others have been inglobated into the apron and taxiway system).

Anyway, there don't seem to be any real runway expansion projects for the future of CPH...
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Old May 20th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #190
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... BTW (I often like to compare different European realities), an example of how a previously rather small airport can be expanded in a very good way is Barcelona's El Prat; see, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_El_Prat_Airport

http://www.bcnair-route.com/index.ph...infrastructure

http://www.airport-technology.com/pr...tional-airport

etc. etc.

... effectively doubling its facilities.

But Spain is indeed a country which seems to have more vision of the future than others (maybe because they got back democracy at a later stage? or also because they had many EU economical contributions? who knows...).

(OK, also just shamelessly trying to raise my still quite low post count on SSC...)
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Old May 21st, 2012, 12:24 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven G View Post
BTW, talking about the Øresund line, one wonders why they didn't make the Kastrup Airport station with 4 tracks (with 2 island platforms) from the beginning: were there such space constraints that it couldn't have been made?
My understanding is that the constraints there were financial. Remember that the airport station was a more-or-less incidental feature of the fixed link project, and not the result of a principled decision to build an airport rail link. Since the two platform tracks we got are sufficient to handle the traffic that actually goes across the bridge, I suspect that none of the organizations involved were willing to fund additional capacity that would be used only on the Danish side.

(But I've also heard a rumor that the planners were modeling platform dwelling times -- and hence the capacity -- based on passenger-number forecasts, without taking into account that a much larger fraction of passengers would have bulky luggage than on a "standard" railway station).

The reason for the substandard connection of the freight tracks west of the station, however, is almost certainly space constraints, considering that the original project had funding for a full set of flyovers in the eastern end. It is difficult to fit in a flyover between the roads passing above the line -- some proposals to do so were sketched recently in connection with the Femern Belt project, but the space is so cramped that they involve track gradients of 2.7 %...


[Also, thanks to Spikespiegel for pointing out the missing crossover at Holte. Fixed now, and apologies for my somewhat defensive initial reply.]
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Old May 21st, 2012, 11:24 AM   #192
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Exactly - hence my point about prioritization and who gets what, when and how. Several models were of course discussed back in the days, a decision was made, which is not particular future-proven, but much cheaper - and then when various challenges one day arise, i.e. capacity issues, then it is up to those present-day politicians to try to dismantle these. That's how politics work - being not necessarily very strategical oriented nor long-term economically sound. It is the exact same thing that we are currently witnessing with the ramp re Nordhavnsvejen.
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Old May 21st, 2012, 11:25 AM   #193
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Some other small errors I've found you can fix:

The abandoned freight terminal at Hellerup has been torn down a year ago. Most of the tracks there have been removed, only the few tracks used by Banedanmark remains.

The exit from Helgoland (towards Østerport) was changed a month ago. It's hard to tell the exact changes, but the dead end track at the end of track 19 was removed, and some switches were changed.

That's all I could find from the quick glance at it
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Old June 12th, 2012, 11:49 PM   #194
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Overground stations on the metro will get glass doors to increase capacity - according to the new transport agreement:
Quote:
Parterne er derfor enige om at afsætte 200 mio. kr. til opgradering af den eksisterende metro, så det bliver muligt at øge kapaciteten i metroen. Med opgraderingen vil kapaciteten i metroen øges med ca. 20 pct. i øvrigt med anvendelse af eksisterende infrastruktur og materiel. Som en del af opgraderingen opsættes perrondøre, som det kendes fra de underjordiske stationer, på de stationer der ligger over jorden. Med perrondørene bliver det muligt at køre flere tog i myldretiden samt øge driftsstabiliteten i hele metrosystemet.
http://trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publicat...ni%201901.ashx
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:45 AM   #195
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I don't see how installing doors help improve the capacity.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #196
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En der ganske kort kan forklare, hvorfor perrondøre kan udvide kapaciteten? Det ændrer da intet at der kommer glasdøre op.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:09 AM   #197
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Edit: Got it: http://www.trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publ...20metroen.ashx
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:45 AM   #198
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Welcome to what a complex society that we have created (which explains the above).
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Old June 26th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #199
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The Nordhavnsvej tunnel has now advanced so far that soon the S train lines (to the left of the Øresund train) will be closed for a number of weeks in order to construct a temporary bridge for the trains. The road tunnel will be then constructed underneath the bridge.
The road tunnel runs parallel to the Farum S line tunnel.
Afterwards it will be the Kystbanes turn for a similar exercise.

[IMG]http://i49.************/smdpgj.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #200
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Copenhagen - Malmö metro news.

http://ing.dk/artikel/130503-nu-begy...tro-til-malmoe
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