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Old May 7th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #1
AmiDelf
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MISC | Indonesia cities must get light-rail or trams now!

Hello. I am writing this here now, because Ive been in Indonesia a lot. Both in Jakarta, Bandung and Jogjakarta. Why is no one doing anything to help Indonesians? I mean even Thailand and Malaysia have great transport systems (and monorails... etc)

The only town Ive seen with some sort of public transportation is Jogjakarta with their mini-buss system. Also have their own map of where the system goes.. but the bigger cities like Jakarta and Bandung have nothing of this??? Why? I read that Jakarta once had a tram system? Why doesnt Indonesians care about their country at all? Or do you love standing in endless cues on the way home from work??

Why isnt no one doing nothing? I am just asking... Is there any pics on line of the tram system in Jakarta? How can a over 230 million populated country not have any good public transportation? I mean.. think of London without its tube, busses and trams? Geez,... Come on.. Netherlands.. you own Indonesia, why cant you help Indonesia??? Please, something must be done! It must!??
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Old May 9th, 2011, 03:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Hello. I am writing this here now, because Ive been in Indonesia a lot. Both in Jakarta, Bandung and Jogjakarta. Why is no one doing anything to help Indonesians? I mean even Thailand and Malaysia have great transport systems (and monorails... etc)

The only town Ive seen with some sort of public transportation is Jogjakarta with their mini-buss system. Also have their own map of where the system goes.. but the bigger cities like Jakarta and Bandung have nothing of this??? Why? I read that Jakarta once had a tram system? Why doesnt Indonesians care about their country at all? Or do you love standing in endless cues on the way home from work??

Why isnt no one doing nothing? I am just asking... Is there any pics on line of the tram system in Jakarta? How can a over 230 million populated country not have any good public transportation? I mean.. think of London without its tube, busses and trams? Geez,... Come on.. Netherlands.. you own Indonesia, why cant you help Indonesia??? Please, something must be done! It must!??
Your certainly right, the huge Indonesian cities need rail transport.

My sense though is that very chaotic nature of Indonesian cities mitigates against light or heavy rail transit.

I'm just guessing though that something like a metro could threaten the jobs of the drivers of the existing transport modes, or other vested interests, & therefore it hasn't happened.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 07:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Why isnt no one doing nothing? I am just asking... Is there any pics on line of the tram system in Jakarta? How can a over 230 million populated country not have any good public transportation? I mean.. think of London without its tube, busses and trams? Geez,... Come on.. Netherlands.. you own Indonesia, why cant you help Indonesia??? Please, something must be done! It must!??
since when the netherlands OWNS Indonesia?

And actually we do have BRT and Commuter train in Jakarta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g4brielle View Post
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


busway in action
image hosted on flickr










Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimihitam View Post
Bus Transjakarta
Foto oleh Gunkarta





Quote:
Originally Posted by AAG View Post
Transjakarta koridor 9 (articulated bus)


Transjakarta koridor 9 (single bus)


Central Park extended JPO

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagak View Post
Some stations and railways in Indonesia


Gondang Dia Station, Jakarta - Indonesia
By Praminto Nugroho




Gambir Station, Jakarta - Indonesia
By Bangunkartaboy

Quote:
Originally Posted by panitiakurban View Post
When going to work in the downtown of Jakarta, I take the train from Tangerang (Commuter) Station.....





to Sudirman Station....





I usually take the intercity train from Jakarta Gambir Station





to Bandung...





Quote:
Originally Posted by David-80 View Post
Here is Gambir station, taken from my iphone






Cheers
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Last edited by bagak; May 9th, 2011 at 07:35 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #4
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Didn't the Dutch build European style tram systems in some Indonesian cities?
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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #5
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Indonesia is owned by Netherlands You just dont realize it. Almost all architecture and infrastructure is made by the dutch who owned Indonesia for over 400 years. But you? What have Indonesians done to its country? Its dirty and polluted everywhere .. and no one cares? You burn your waste and have no recycling at all. Where is the thinking of your childrens health?

The biggest problem for Indonesia, is its 90% muslim country and 10% others. And no, this is not a post against Islam or other religions, but almost in every country where religion people is parts of political parties, I feel there is little will for doing anything to improve life quality whatsoever. This is not a muslim problem on its own, but also a big problem for USA which is "so" Christian. You need to breath and feel and see how others have it to understand. You can complain about me beeing wrong, but I live in Norways capital Oslo with about 600 000 and this city got trams, metro, trains and busses, while Jakarta with its over 9 million citizens have a lousy buss system which only make the smog even worse. Do you see the difference? And before you start mentioning the difference between those countries in economy, countries like Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore should be looked onto.

I mean,.. could anyone imagine London without its tube, trams and busses? Thats what each Indonesian city is like. That is the truth. The country and its people is so warm and lovely, but their care for enviroment is a tragedy.

Now Algerie in Africa got their FIRST tram route, http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/new...s-service.html

Which Indonesian city will get that first? How to get Indonesians to think right? Think green? Its like I feel its bad Netherlands doesnt help Indonesia anymore. If they got the chance, would be so much better. Look at Amsterdam. Its a superb city compared to any city in Indonesia! And its big too. With Netherlands, Indonesia actually had tram lines and places were nice. Now things is getting worse and worse, because Indonesians doesnt care. Even Bali is getting worse. Bali was much nicer 3 years ago I heard when I was there last week.

I really wish that Indonesia stands up and show that you want to improve. You like to visit western shopping centers which is clean and nice, but once outside of these shopping malls. Its dirty and Indonesia doesnt deserve this, because its so nice country ! Love the food, the people and the atmosphere.. but life could be even better with actions like less traffic and less smog for sure. I love Indonesia, but not its traffic. Its killing peoples healthy life. It is. Just think of it the next time you stand on your motorbike every 5 meters. Its a good thing, and act. I hope, before its to late... I believe and hope in Indonesia. I do.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Indonesia is owned by Netherlands You just dont realize it. Almost all architecture and infrastructure is made by the dutch who owned Indonesia for over 400 years. But you? What have Indonesians done to its country? Its dirty and polluted everywhere .. and no one cares? You burn your waste and have no recycling at all. Where is the thinking of your childrens health?

Yeah during their 400 years colonizing the dutch did build some tiny winy lousy buildings, compare to the british architecture that our neighbors has, which huge and grande.... and what did the dutch get from Indonesia? they got Amsterdam and the netherlands today, where the hell do you think they get their money to build their country? from our freakin land and soil, from our *****n great grandfathers blood and sweat.... I see you're so proud of that period of time, WAKE UP dude, time changes, you're no longer live in the past...
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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #7
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OK I didn't mean to start a political argument! So what has happened to those tram systems? What cities were they in and how big were they? I presume they all closed for the same reasons as many cities around the world - love of cars and buses.

By the way, London got rid of its trams (only a tiny new system now on the outskirts) so it has a similar bus and traffic "disease" as Indonesia!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 04:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post

By the way, London got rid of its trams (only a tiny new system now on the outskirts) so it has a similar bus and traffic "disease" as Indonesia!
Click here
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Old May 10th, 2011, 04:12 AM   #9
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um... I only know of a tram system that Jakarta had waayy back. I rememeber reading an article about old tram tracks being found 3 meters deep. They got rid of the tram (from where I read) because i think they started favouring cars and stuff. Looks what that has done. =.= the big cities are already planning metro system (Jakarta, surabaya and I think Bandung). It'll take a while for those cities to have elaborate systems like in Europe and the Americas. I think the cities should work with what they got and improve them, and i mean big time. Off topic, but i just realized the bus shelter in picture 1 and two are above water.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 07:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anaki101 View Post
um... I only know of a tram system that Jakarta had waayy back. I rememeber reading an article about old tram tracks being found 3 meters deep. They got rid of the tram (from where I read) because i think they started favouring cars and stuff. Looks what that has done. =.= the big cities are already planning metro system (Jakarta, surabaya and I think Bandung). It'll take a while for those cities to have elaborate systems like in Europe and the Americas. I think the cities should work with what they got and improve them, and i mean big time. Off topic, but i just realized the bus shelter in picture 1 and two are above water.
Most of the European cities, Amsterdam included kept their trams.

Most of the American cities got rid of their trams. But in recent decades, there's been a renaisance of light rail across the US & most recently new streetcar systems.

Hopefully, Indonesia will join the revival of trams & urban rail!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:56 PM   #11
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I hope so. It may be a kinda crazy plan, but converting the Busways into 'skytrain' might attract more people to the system, and having a historic tram line like trhough Kota can increase tourism there. But they gotta fix it first.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 11:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Indonesia is owned by Netherlands You just dont realize it. Almost all architecture and infrastructure is made by the dutch who owned Indonesia for over 400 years. But you? What have Indonesians done to its country? Its dirty and polluted everywhere .. and no one cares? You burn your waste and have no recycling at all. Where is the thinking of your childrens health?

The biggest problem for Indonesia, is its 90% muslim country and 10% others. And no, this is not a post against Islam or other religions, but almost in every country where religion people is parts of political parties, I feel there is little will for doing anything to improve life quality whatsoever. This is not a muslim problem on its own, but also a big problem for USA which is "so" Christian. You need to breath and feel and see how others have it to understand. You can complain about me beeing wrong, but I live in Norways capital Oslo with about 600 000 and this city got trams, metro, trains and busses, while Jakarta with its over 9 million citizens have a lousy buss system which only make the smog even worse. Do you see the difference? And before you start mentioning the difference between those countries in economy, countries like Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore should be looked onto.

I mean,.. could anyone imagine London without its tube, trams and busses? Thats what each Indonesian city is like. That is the truth. The country and its people is so warm and lovely, but their care for enviroment is a tragedy.

Now Algerie in Africa got their FIRST tram route, http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/new...s-service.html

Which Indonesian city will get that first? How to get Indonesians to think right? Think green? Its like I feel its bad Netherlands doesnt help Indonesia anymore. If they got the chance, would be so much better. Look at Amsterdam. Its a superb city compared to any city in Indonesia! And its big too. With Netherlands, Indonesia actually had tram lines and places were nice. Now things is getting worse and worse, because Indonesians doesnt care. Even Bali is getting worse. Bali was much nicer 3 years ago I heard when I was there last week.

I really wish that Indonesia stands up and show that you want to improve. You like to visit western shopping centers which is clean and nice, but once outside of these shopping malls. Its dirty and Indonesia doesnt deserve this, because its so nice country ! Love the food, the people and the atmosphere.. but life could be even better with actions like less traffic and less smog for sure. I love Indonesia, but not its traffic. Its killing peoples healthy life. It is. Just think of it the next time you stand on your motorbike every 5 meters. Its a good thing, and act. I hope, before its to late... I believe and hope in Indonesia. I do.
I agree that it would be great if Indonesian cities would invest more in rail infrastructure, but your arguments are a bit disputable. I think the biggest problem in Indonesia is corruption, which leads to a government system that has no real executional power and halts private investment. That is why public infrastructure is underdeveloped.

To bring in religion in this discussion is out of line in my opinion. I would like to point a couple of things.
- The Netherlands have a government with a christian party in it, so I don't think your point makes sense.
- Indonesia is a country with a Muslim majority, but it is a secular country with religious freedom. Women can become (and have been) president. Something The Netherlands have yet to achieve. I think this model should be applauded and sustained.
- One of the examples with better infrastructure you point out is Malaysia, which is much more strictly Muslim (and much less secular) than Indonesia. Its judicial system is highly influenced by the Sharia, and non-muslims have fewer rights.
In other words: I don't think religion has anything to do with it.

In a historic perspective, I don't think what The Netherlands have done to Indonesia would count as 'helping'. True, there were investments in infrastructure and agriculture, but at a high cost that was paid mostly by the local Indonesian people.
There is a thread dedicated to Dutch colonial architecture on this forum. It is trying to just show pictures and stay away from judgements or moral issues concerning this (please respect that if you decide to contribute).
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=852734

There was more rail infrastructure in the colonial era. There were tram lines in most major cities. I know that was at least the case in Jakarta (then Batavia) and Surabaya (Soerabaja). For a list of rail and tram companies in this era, see this wiki page:
Dutch: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoorwe...nds-Indi%C3%AB
BI: http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perusah...Hindia-Belanda

Last edited by woutero; May 11th, 2011 at 11:29 AM.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:58 PM   #13
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Nice to see pictures of the BRT. Never knew there was one!
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Old May 11th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #14
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What happened to the Jakarta metro/subway project? Wikipedia said "it will start in 2010", did it?
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Old May 11th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #15
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by 2016 Jakarta, Indonesia will have MRT system with 13 stations,its really a good start
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Old May 12th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #16
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Here is a little bit of information I found on tram systems in two Indonesian cities, both started in nineteenth century, closed in 1960s:

http://www.tramz.com/tva/id.html
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:51 AM   #17
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Indonesia needs, like other countries, urban ropeways.
They are cheaper than buses or light rails.

Have a look here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1401382
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Old July 6th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by networker View Post
Indonesia needs, like other countries, urban ropeways.
They are cheaper than buses or light rails.

Have a look here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1401382
i think beefing up the commuter rail system (the infrastructure is there) and/or building more BRT is a better short-mid term investment, as the demand will overwhelm a ropeway. BRT and upgrading commuter rail may be more expensive but when the demand warrants it you can further upgrade it BRT-->LRT and commuter rail to high capacity metro-like commuter rail (think JR, korail, or ex-KCR lines) when a ropeway reaches capacity you cant really do much about it.... and of course in the long term make a metro system. not saying rope-ways are bad just they should be used as feeders from mountainous areas to trunk lines not used as trunk lines.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 08:19 AM   #19
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Solo city runs their first tram

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Originally Posted by Mimihitam View Post
In a Bid to Keep the City Moving, Solo Turns to Trams
Hangga Brata


The new Railbus underwent a trial run on Tuesday, passing along Jalan Slamet Riyadi in Solo. The air-conditioned trams, set to commence regular services later this month, will be able to transport 160 commuters per trip. It will ply the route between Solo and Wonogiri. (JG Photo/Ali Lutfi)

Solo. Renowned for its innovative public transportation system, the Central Java city of Solo unveiled its latest service on Tuesday: a tram called the Railbus.

The Railbus, which can transport 160 passengers, will run between Solo and Wonogiri, also in Central Java, along a 39-kilometer route that takes about two hours to traverse.

“Solo does not want to be left behind by other big cites, such as Jakarta, in preparing its mass transportation system,” Eko Budiyanto, a spokesman for state railway operator Kereta Api Indonesia, said on Tuesday.

The city has already undertaken a pioneering campaign with Yogyakarta, under which it has rolled out a system allowing passengers to use transportation in and between both cities using a single ticket.

Solo has also since December operated a bus system similar to the TransJakarta service in the capital.

The bus system, called the Batik Solo Trans, serves about 3,000 passengers each day. Hermanto Dwiatmoko, an official at the Transportation Ministry, said that although Tuesday marked a trial run for the Railbus, the system was practically ready for launch.

“This is a unique and modern form of transportation and it has just been waiting for the formal ceremony,” he said. The Transportation Ministry is scheduled to inaugurate the Railbus on July 26, Hermanto said.

The new Railbus replaces an old feeder train that is no longer in use and was able to carry only 90 passengers on each trip. It used an old rail track that was built back in the time of Dutch colonial rule.

The new tram will also be fully air-conditioned.

“We plan to build new stops at several locations in downtown Solo,” Hermanto said, adding however that no decision had yet been made on the price of fares or the tram schedule.

“We first have to meet with the Solo municipal administration, transportation officials and KAI,” he said.

He added that the Rp 17 billion ($2 million) Railbus was expected to help alleviate the city’s traffic problems, especially during Idul Fitri, when millions of city dwellers head to their hometowns to celebrate the end of the Islamic fasting month of Ramadan.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/...o-trams/452601
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Old July 14th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #20
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Does anyone have a map or a link for this? I've googled it but just found repeats of the original Jakarta Globe article.
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