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Old May 27th, 2011, 04:41 AM   #121
fragel
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It's well known for being pricey. You paid 80 yuan (for a 2nd class seat on CRH1) to travel 147km from Shenzhen to Guangzhou at top speed of 200 km/h. For comparison, to travel 169 km on Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR, a G-train 2nd class seat charges 82 yuan (on CRH380A, CRH3C or CRH2C etc) at top speed of 350km/h, and a D-train 2nd class seat charges 52 yuan at top speed of 250km/h. The high price is due to the fact that it is an early built ICL operated by a separate company.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 05:24 AM   #122
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80 RMB - 8.75 euros in a confortable train for 120km is not expensive !
For almost the same distance.
Brussel is 264 km far from Paris and the cost of a one way ticket without discount in 2nd class is 90 euros = 823 RMB.
Twice the distance but tenth the fare...
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Old May 27th, 2011, 06:08 AM   #123
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I think the trains in China are very good value even if you consider that incomes are significantly lower than Western Europe or other locations which have sophisticated railway networks. Especially if you take into account the quality/price ratio.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #124
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well, Guang-Shen ICL being the most expensive railway is discussed in context, that is, when compared to HSRs of highest standard in China. Other similar railways with higher standard(ballastless with longer curve radius) and higher speed(250km/h) only charges about 45 yuan for 147 km.

It is hard to say if the Chinese high speed trains are expensive or not without a reference. A direct comparison of ticket prices between China and other countries(especially Japan and European countries) will show that Chinese high speed trains are quite cheap to ride. For migrant workers making 2000-3000 yuan a month, then they are expensive but not unaffordable. There are also many travelers switch back to railway travel because of the introduction of high speed trains. The media tend to give the false impression that HSRs are unaffordable for most people. Even the busy and popular HSRs such as Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR were reported being 'white elephants' by some domestic and foreign media, yet they have to sell standing tickets in rush hours.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 09:43 AM   #125
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Guang-Shen railway maybe expensive for Chinese standards but it is expensive for a reason, it is seriously overloaded. The trains are every 8 minutes and they are all full to the capacity, at least always when I take them Another line is urgently needed.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 01:42 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taipei Walker View Post
Guang-Shen railway maybe expensive for Chinese standards but it is expensive for a reason, it is seriously overloaded. The trains are every 8 minutes and they are all full to the capacity, at least always when I take them Another line is urgently needed.
Isn't the new HK-Guangzhou express line opening in June?
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Old May 28th, 2011, 03:59 PM   #127
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Hi all,I'd like to share my point of view as a local of Shenzhen..
In China,people would like to evaluate a city from "hardwares" and "softwares" .
Hardwares mean urban constructions like roads,metro,railways,high rises,parks,etc..Shenzhen owns an outstanding hardware not worse than any other city in mainland China.
Softwares refer to manner of people,some cultural things,cultural atmosphere etc..I disagree the opinion that Shenzhen is a culture desert.Shenzhen is a migrant city and people come from everywhere.It is people that should be the most important part of culture instead of architecture or a long history Since people are carriers of culture.I believe that people in Shenzhen will create our unique culture.
As some guys stated above,manner of people in Shenzhen is generally unsatisfying.It's common to see people jumping queue,spiting on the street,crossing the road when the light's red.China possesses such a huge population which makes it so hard for the education to catch up with the speed of development.That's the reason,I think.
Anyway,we'll do better,but it costs time.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Isn't the new HK-Guangzhou express line opening in June?
GZ to SZ part of the line will open in Aug(which delays thanks to the tough construction of a 10000m long tunnel under water),while SZ to HK part will open after 2014.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konta View Post
GZ to SZ part of the line will open in Aug(which delays thanks to the tough construction of a 10000m long tunnel under water),while SZ to HK part will open after 2014.
Is it due to the complicated construction work (tunnels and all that, including tunnell under nature reserve) in HK territory?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Konta View Post
Hi all,I'd like to share my point of view as a local of Shenzhen..
In China,people would like to evaluate a city from "hardwares" and "softwares" .
Hardwares mean urban constructions like roads,metro,railways,high rises,parks,etc..Shenzhen owns an outstanding hardware not worse than any other city in mainland China.
Softwares refer to manner of people,some cultural things,cultural atmosphere etc..I disagree the opinion that Shenzhen is a culture desert.Shenzhen is a migrant city and people come from everywhere.It is people that should be the most important part of culture instead of architecture or a long history Since people are carriers of culture.I believe that people in Shenzhen will create our unique culture.
As some guys stated above,manner of people in Shenzhen is generally unsatisfying.It's common to see people jumping queue,spiting on the street,crossing the road when the light's red.China possesses such a huge population which makes it so hard for the education to catch up with the speed of development.That's the reason,I think.
Anyway,we'll do better,but it costs time.
You are right here. However, I got a feeling that the authorities are very keen of "educating" people. I saw plenty of traffic officers who stay near pedestrian crossings during rush hours, metro staff assisting passengers, posters explaining about good manners etc.

I had a very interesting and nice experience in Shenzhen metro. I was standing at the ticket machina and trying to figure out which station I should go to. Then a station staff with uniform came to me and politely asked in English "do you need any help, sir?". I said I'm just trying to figure out the best station to go and that I'm ok. He then gave me a military style formal "salut" and went back to his routine. That must have been the best "passenger assistance" service I have ever seen.
My point is that despite obvious insufficiencies in some areas people can learn very quickly and it probably won't take too long at least for the major Chinese cities to significantly improve the "software". In many areas seemingly it already has improved alot. For example, people in the metro are queuing up in the indicated places instead of just crowding around the doors when waiting for the train to come. Overall the situation in SZ and GZ metros was not much different from what I have seen in HK in terms of people's behavior. I think that's a very good start.

Last edited by Pansori; May 28th, 2011 at 05:58 PM.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 05:24 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Is it due to the complicated construction work (tunnels and all that, including tunnell under nature reserve) in HK territory?
That's one of the factors I think.And you know it would be quite difficult to remove things along the railway line in developed area like HK.




Quote:
You are right here. However, I got a feeling that the authorities are very keen of "educating" people. I saw plenty of traffic officers who stay near pedestrian crossings during rush hours, metro staff assisting passengers, posters explaining about good manners etc.

I had a very interesting and nice experience in Shenzhen metro. I was standing at the ticket machina and trying to figure out which station I should go to. Then a station staff with uniform came to me and politely asked in English "do you need any help, sir?". I said I'm just trying to figure out the best station to go and that I'm ok. He then gave me a military style formal "salut" and went back to his routine. That must have been the best "passenger assistance" service I have ever seen.
My point is that despite obvious insufficiencies in some areas people can learn very quickly and it probably won't take too long at least for the major Chinese cities to significantly improve the "software". In many areas seemingly it already has improved alot. For example, people in the metro are queuing up in the indicated places instead of just crowding around the doors when waiting for the train to come. Overall the situation in SZ and GZ metros was not much different from what I have seen in HK in terms of people's behavior. I think that's a very good start.
Happy to hear you have had a good time in Shenzhen.
People will keep orderly when they're monitored,but they do not form a steady habit indeed,it still need more time.(Our young generations do better though)
Just don't try to avoid others' crticisms since the fact is that our SZers perform worse than HKers.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 07:42 PM   #131
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Nice photos Pansori and thanks for the commentaries
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Old May 30th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #132
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And some here mentioned Shenzhen being dangerous?

Some opinions:
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Old June 1st, 2011, 12:02 PM   #133
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Just finish the thread, great photes and good debate!
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Old June 1st, 2011, 08:47 PM   #134
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I agree with Langur. Shenzhen looks very uninviting from these pictures. It appears as a sea of long highways, concrete blocks, and wide pavements, with a few stellar pieces of architecture and skyscrapers here and there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of that type of urban planning, no matter how practical it may appear or how much greenery they've put in (and I love greenery) It just lacks humanity for me and I would tire very quickly of it if I had to walk down those wide highways everyday. Then again, I'm a fan of cities that have narrow streets, a mix of old and new, and a more intimate feeling about them.
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Old June 13th, 2011, 02:50 PM   #135
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Nice pics Pansori. Have you been to Shekou?
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Old June 13th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #136
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Nice pics Pansori. Have you been to Shekou?
No, I havent. As I mentioned I only had one day so I tried to stick to the main spots. I will do it next time. I think I'll try to dedicate ~3 full days for exploring more of SZ.
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Old June 13th, 2011, 04:06 PM   #137
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I agree with Langur. Shenzhen looks very uninviting from these pictures. It appears as a sea of long highways, concrete blocks, and wide pavements, with a few stellar pieces of architecture and skyscrapers here and there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of that type of urban planning, no matter how practical it may appear or how much greenery they've put in (and I love greenery) It just lacks humanity for me and I would tire very quickly of it if I had to walk down those wide highways everyday. Then again, I'm a fan of cities that have narrow streets, a mix of old and new, and a more intimate feeling about them.
Well, there is very little old in a city that simply didn't exist 30 years ago - but I also think that those photos are not entirely an entirely accurate representation of the way this city is - they do a good job of representing the Futian CBD and the OCT area near shi jie zhi chuang, but that's very far from being the whole of SZ.

If I look out my window, I can see the DiWang building and the Kingkey 100 - but I can also see 3 of the old "urban villages" that formed the earliest phase of the development here - and there is a lot more living going on in them than there is in the skyscrapers. You could also look at a set of photos taken in Baoan and conclude, based on them, that SZ was mostly factories.

All I can say, based on actually living here for several years, is that the actual feel is far from as impersonal as you might think from the photos - although it has to be said that the SZ city government appears to have a plan that revolves far more on "face" than practicality (one example being the fact that they recently decided to ban electric bikes; presumably because they feel they look too tubaozi for the impression they want to project during the Universiade - never mind the fact that lots of companies use them for deliveries and the most likely effect will be to force even more people into those little minivans and give SZ's traffic the final kick it needs to go from slow moving to entirely gridlocked).

I've also got to say that I've never considered this place dangerous - there are some areas (dongmen and the area near lo wu come to mind) where you have to watch out of pickpockets, but I can't say I've ever been in a situation where I was worried for my personal safety.
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Old June 14th, 2011, 12:00 AM   #138
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Interesting thread. Some awesome new architecture!

I must cross the border one day to go to Shenzen!
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Old June 14th, 2011, 01:48 AM   #139
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Interesting thread. Some awesome new architecture!

I must cross the border one day to go to Shenzen!
Knowing your capabilities as a photographer I would be more than interested to see that happening!
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Old September 14th, 2011, 09:38 PM   #140
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Awesome thread
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