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Old June 19th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #101
ChrisZwolle
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Paris has in theory a great network, but the problem is it lacks capacity at crucial points and there are some missing links in both routes and interchanges.

Even with the congestion, Paris is much easier to get around in than London. While congestion is annoying it doesn't necessarily mean driving is less efficient than other modes of transportation. The car is usually still the fastest way to travel, despite congestion, especially if you don't have an origin or destination in the Paris core.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #102
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This is interesting, I assume this was supposed to be an interchange between the Boulevard Périphérique and the A15 motorway. One of those missing links I was talking about.


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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #103
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I also think this may have been planned at some point. It could still be constructed rather easy, with minimal to no additional right-of-way acquirement necessary.


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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Paris has in theory a great network, but the problem is it lacks capacity at crucial points and there are some missing links in both routes and interchanges.

Even with the congestion, Paris is much easier to get around in than London. While congestion is annoying it doesn't necessarily mean driving is less efficient than other modes of transportation. The car is usually still the fastest way to travel, despite congestion, especially if you don't have an origin or destination in the Paris core.
I wouldn't necessarily agree that Paris is easier to get around to then London. Only different. Traveling from north to south there are three ways to do it. (Pherepherique, A86, N104) The last two mentioned applies to the east side only. There is no through route on the west side. As for London, traveling from north to south you can go either way, and even avoid a part of the M25 by using A14 and M11.

East to West in Paris has been relieved now since 5 years or so, when they have built a new link from Reims to Normandy. And they were proud of it as well. (Normandie sans Paris!).
In London you can go either way, and usually sit in traffic no matter which way go go. But Paris provides more alternatives then London, and the N104 is at times the best option.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:19 PM   #105
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A bypass of London may not be too bad, but London is horrible when it comes to innercity traffic and in getting from Central London to a motorway. Take a random move within the two urban areas, for instance Versailles to Charles de Gaulle airport against Dartford to Wembley Stadium. Both some 40 kilometers as the crow flies, slightly more when on the road.

Now in Paris, that drive is almost completely on a motorway. In London, you won't see any motorway at all, even though some parts are dual carriageway. It shows when you look at the times that Google Maps shows for the drive. In London, it's 56 minutes in uncongested traffic though in current (midday) traffic, you need to count 1.36h for the drive. In Paris, it's just over half an hour in uncongested traffic and in current traffic, you need to add another five to ten minutes.

Needless to explain that a drive from Central London to places elsewhere in England is almost invariably a pain, as it will take ages before you are out of town. For people travelling North by bus, I have even read the tip that it is often less time-consuming to travel by Tube to the North London bus station and board there, as opposed to using the central bus terminals.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #106
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That I agree with. Although M4 and A40 (M40) does provide the best links to the rest of the country out of London. And from A40 you can jump on the M1 (via North Circular=, but traveling from let's say Oxford Street to M1 does take a lot longer. Coming from Dover, Central London is hard to travel into.

Paris with its A1/A3, A6/A10, A13 and A4 links is a lot easier if you are determined to go into the centre.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #107
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Typical of metropolitan areas are suburb - suburb movements being the dominant patterns of travel. In most major metro areas some 80% or more of the employment is outside the urban core, hence travel patterns are highly irregular and decentralized. Even on the Boulevard Périphérique, some 60% of the traffic does not have a destination or origin within the Ville de Paris.

Paris serves that traffic fairly well. It may be congested at times, but you can get there fairly quickly. London is a different story. It's either a huge detour to the M25 Orbital or a long drive on residential streets-turned-major arterials.

Another issue is that Paris is fairly free-flowing outside rush hour, while the delays in London are usually 20 or 30 minutes even at noon. If I look at Google Maps now for some intersuburban routes, they all come up with 20 - 30 minutes additional travel time, the average speed being about 30 km/h, and that's not even near rush hour.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #108
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Outside rush hours I mostly get around London without any major delays. Any congestion outside these hours are usually caused by accidents. This applies especially since they have upgraded the sections near M40, A10, M11 and Heathrow.

As the Pheripherique itself may not be that much of a problem, the approaches are at times a different story. I intend to use Pherepherique or A86 at night time only. At the day time I am much happier using N104, even though it is more miles to travel...

I don't really look at statistics, and in all honestly I don't have a clue. I can't imagine a sheet of statistics helping me around London and Paris when I am actually there. Situations are different at all times. I prefer Paris when it comes to sign posting and route information.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #109
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Is there shoulder running on the A4/A86 multiplex in the eastern suburbs? This is one of those key stretches lacking capacity. There are only 2x4 lanes that have to handle over 250.000 vehicles per day.

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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #110
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I have never noticed it. Only on A86 interchanges itself there is some shoulder running. From what I have seen anyway.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #111
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Yes there is a shoulder running, in rush hours the security lanes are open to traffic in this section.

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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #112
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There you have it. Most of the times I am on the A4 near Paris, is when I am interchanging on A/N104...
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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:49 PM   #113
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A4 is not a problem. southern peripherique has some short sections 2X2, those are bottlenecks. but mostly, Ile de France motorways are fluid outside rush hours. Inner Paris is where the system sucks...
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Old June 21st, 2012, 12:07 AM   #114
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These short 2x2 section are part of is the oldest section of the Peripherique, it is in the junctions with the A6a and A6b motorway (opened in April 1960).
Much of the peripherique sections that opened in the early 1960's is 2x3 lanes.
They understood fast that 2x3 wasn't enouth and sections that opened after 1965 are all in 2x4.

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Old June 21st, 2012, 12:26 AM   #115
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are there any plans for widening there?
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 03:09 AM   #116
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Absolutly nothing ! The Green (who have an exaggeratedly high power in Paris) would prefer transforming the Peripherique into a boulevard with at-grade intersection or even a park than giving more lanes to suburban drivers.
(I am serious when I say this, Green really think about transforming the Peripherique).

Anyway the space lack in this area to widening the Peripherique.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 08:34 AM   #117
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Quote:
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Anyway the space lack in this area to widening the Peripherique.
Is there anything which could not be rebuilt elsewhere?
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 01:27 PM   #118
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why people always want to use the road space? which is already very limited. there are so many stadiums by peripherique, maybe they could use some huge space they occupy.

same goes with building the T3 tramway, they are building it in the middle of the bd Macdonald. don't they realize there is no space for such thing, and a subway would be needed instead of tramway?
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 01:42 PM   #119
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Yes, the tramway lines around Paris are idiotic; they should have been built as underground Metro lines instead.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #120
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Friday rush:
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