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Old May 15th, 2015, 06:58 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
South Korea is a rich country indeed with not so tough burden of social expenses unlike European countries where people don't work much.
Careful, this post is borderline trolling and is certainly incorrect. Don't bring international politics or criticism of countries into these threads please.
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Old May 15th, 2015, 08:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
How is a country such as Korea able to afford such expansion of metro, when developed countries struggle to fund a single line?
I'm going to assume that English is not your first language and that you don't understand just how f*cking rude and obnoxious you're being. Despite seeing your other posts I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

SKorea is a developed country, often outranking a substantial proportion of the EU. Nobody would classify France, Belgium or Japan as developing countries. SKorea outranks them on the Human Development Index.

Most of the explosion of development in Korea has happened relatively recently as a significant amount of infrastructure was destroyed about 60 years ago. Skorea decided to develop high density settlements, partly due to rebuilding their country, partly due to the mountainous geography (look at how Busan follows the mountains and subsequently the subway follows the valleys). In short, SKorea developed extremely rapidly, the extensive subway system expansion reflects this as well as a political will to encourage the economy by reducing travel time / road congestion and boosting construction / research and development into technologies it can now export. Seoul actually had very little rail transport left after the war - Line 1 was the old long distance rail line - it is now a hybrid metro/subway system and the same track bed is now 6+ tracks and includes the subway, commuter services and high speed rail tracks. Most of the rest of the subway was purpose built and underground, as it is modern it includes things like full 4G internet / digital tv coverage throughout the entire system as the oldest part of the subway dates back to only 1974. For comparison Tokyo started through-running trains into the subway 40 years previously and already had a significant system by the time Seoul opened part of Line 1. To use your german names - Seoul has no real Sbahn, nothing older than about 40years ago, as such it was built with the technology of the time. Because there is no Sbahn equivalent they are now looking at a completely underground RER-style system (GTX) with about 1 stop every 5km or so, more than twice the average station distance of the Paris RER and expected to run at 200km/h (although news on this has gone quiet).
Unique things? Complete phone/4g/tv/wifi coverage (although it is rude to talk on a phone on public transport), age and extent of the system (512 subway stations built since 1974 in Seoul, 270 stations built since 1863 in London).

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
South Korea is a rich country indeed with not so tough burden of social expenses unlike European countries where people don't work much.
Korea is actually incredibly unequal for a country so developed. Every country has good bits and bad, but the lack of social care in Korea means old people picking through garbage for recycling to scrape a living where they would have a pension in Europe. Don't get me started on the education system either - hagwons are essentially torture. 6th highest suicide rate in the world is nothing to be proud of, nearly double that of Japan. As for working so much - Koreans work some of the longest hours in the world but actually don't get much done. Productivity per hour is 66% of the OECD, and half that of the US. If they matched the productivity in European countries they could cut their work ours by a third. Less speed more haste, social security for the elderly/sick/disabled/orphans/children and a happier country overall would be my suggestion
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Old May 15th, 2015, 09:41 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
I'm going to assume that English is not your first language and that you don't understand just how f*cking rude and obnoxious you're being. Despite seeing your other posts I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

SKorea is a developed country, often outranking a substantial proportion of the EU. Nobody would classify France, Belgium or Japan as developing countries. SKorea outranks them on the Human Development Index.
I classify it as slightly developing due to the fact that the vast majority of investment has happened in the last couple of decades. It is also in several economic rankings as a developing country due to its economic growth, I would call several GCC countries 'developing' in the same manner as obviously they are pouring investment into development even though they are incredibly wealthy and prosperous.

In Korea I get the impression that I am witnessing a country building itself up, while most other countries of similar wealth have stagnated.

Quote:
To use your german names - Seoul has no real Sbahn, nothing older than about 40years ago, as such it was built with the technology of the time. Because there is no Sbahn equivalent they are now looking at a completely underground RER-style system (GTX) with about 1 stop every 5km or so, more than twice the average station distance of the Paris RER and expected to run at 200km/h (although news on this has gone quiet).
Unique things? Complete phone/4g/tv/wifi coverage (although it is rude to talk on a phone on public transport), age and extent of the system (512 subway stations built since 1974 in Seoul, 270 stations built since 1863 in London).
Interesting that no sbahn exists. I am too unfamiliar with Seoul to even imagine what it needs, but a major difference between ubahn and sbahn, is that sbahn tends to give more freedom to which routes a train could take (like a road network) while RER/ubahn tend to have more strict routing. Obviously there are exceptions to this but it is worth bearing in mind. Hence low density suburbs are more suited to the freedom sbahn gives.

I would be very interested to see a local's take on whether sbahn would work in Seoul.

As a fan of introducing RER networks into several cities I am a fan of GTX too, it also acts the way I expect an RER to with high frequencies and stops only at towns.

Seoul's stations are very modern and having full reception underground is very respectable.

I still find it baffling how dated several European metro systems look now, especially those in fairly wealthy places such as London, Paris, or Norway.
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Old May 15th, 2015, 10:51 PM   #144
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Okay, now I know you're trolling. "Fairly wealthy places" and your "developing" definitions plus your strange use of classifications for transport are irritating. Also, your denigration of transport systems in Europe is getting tiresome.

As a moderator I am now telling you strongly to tone down your posting. This is your last warning before I start handing out infractions to you. You're being rude, obnoxious, pushy and domineering and none of these are good traits in a newbie to a forum. I can see from your IP that you're likely not a native English speaker so I'm not being as tough on you as I should be, but seriously, tone down the attitude!
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Old May 16th, 2015, 12:26 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Okay, now I know you're trolling. "Fairly wealthy places" and your "developing" definitions plus your strange use of classifications for transport are irritating. Also, your denigration of transport systems in Europe is getting tiresome.

As a moderator I am now telling you strongly to tone down your posting. This is your last warning before I start handing out infractions to you. You're being rude, obnoxious, pushy and domineering and none of these are good traits in a newbie to a forum. I can see from your IP that you're likely not a native English speaker so I'm not being as tough on you as I should be, but seriously, tone down the attitude!
Since you're being argumentative, I'll set some things straight:
1) London and Paris ARE fairly wealthy places, they have some of the highest GDPs on earth, and Norway has a massive sovereign wealth fund to use. No excuse for being cheap, Barcelona or Stockholm can excuse themselves since they will find it too hard to raise such funds.

2) Korea IS regarded as a developing, or at least semi developing, country by many. Even the likes of Bloomberg describe SK as developing, and I was told this was mainly due to economic growth patterns as well as rate of development. If I had described Qatar as developing, would you have said the same?

Although, I think I was intending to simply compare Korea to other developed countries without offence, it's not as if this forum is a serious place anyway where I need to watch my grammar.


3) I am NOT being obnoxious but simply pointing out flaws. Rating stuff is done widely throughout this forum and there is nothing wrong with 'debriefing' a city over the quality of its transport.

If anything I find that you are being to aggressive with me. There are plenty of trolls on this forum AND this forum is global/multilingual. There are even competitions to see which city is superior and, apart from the RER model in Paris, I'm not supporting any particular city either.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 01:05 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
Since you're being argumentative, I'll set some things straight:
1) London and Paris ARE fairly wealthy places, they have some of the highest GDPs on earth, and Norway has a massive sovereign wealth fund to use. No excuse for being cheap, Barcelona or Stockholm can excuse themselves since they will find it too hard to raise such funds.
"Fairly" is interchangeable with "moderately". You cannot use that word and then say they have some of the highest GDPs on earth - that would simply mean they are wealthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
2) Korea IS regarded as a developing, or at least semi developing, country by many. Even the likes of Bloomberg describe SK as developing, and I was told this was mainly due to economic growth patterns as well as rate of development. If I had described Qatar as developing, would you have said the same?
Korea is a member of the OEDC - the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation, is a net donor now rather than an aid recipient. It has also passed the minimum GDP per capita threshold to now be considered a developed country as it has a higher GDP per capita than a number of other developed countries. Ergo, Korea is developed. Korea also has a "very high" human development according to the UN HDI. This puts it firmly in the "developed" category too.

Yes, I would say the same. Qatar is clearly a developed country. Qatar is on good grounds with its GDP per capita, but actually doesn't possess such a high HDI as South Korea (being 31st in the world below Greece).

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
Although, I think I was intending to simply compare Korea to other developed countries without offence, it's not as if this forum is a serious place anyway where I need to watch my grammar.
Actually, it's not just me saying this - it's others. Note the response from DaeguDuke above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
3) I am NOT being obnoxious but simply pointing out flaws. Rating stuff is done widely throughout this forum and there is nothing wrong with 'debriefing' a city over the quality of its transport.
The thing is, you seem to be "debriefing" without taking on board what others are saying. You also use language that is clearly derisory, and that is what I take exception to - look at how you addressed me in the beginning of this post! This is not how one should conduct oneself when new to a forum. I don't know you like I know a lot of members here, but already I am beginning to rather dislike your posting based on your tone.

Can I ask, have you been on any of these transit systems that you are actually talking about at all, or do you have any personal experience you can bring to the table here as that might add a bit of legitimacy to your arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
If anything I find that you are being to aggressive with me. There are plenty of trolls on this forum AND this forum is global/multilingual. There are even competitions to see which city is superior and, apart from the RER model in Paris, I'm not supporting any particular city either.
Actually, I am being hard on you as you are a new member that has barged in and asserted your views boldly and in an arrogant manner that people have not liked. I don't like it, and I also don't like how you derail (no pun intended) threads. City vs. city is actually not permitted on the forum, and it is something I actually do not want to have in my sections of the forum - which this happens to be one. This section of the forum is international, and is NOT multilingual - things should be posted in English. In the specific country forums local languages can be used, but not in the international section.

Now, I am asking for the last time, as politely as I can. Tone. It. Down.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #147
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Woooow, Seoul has one of the best metro & suburban rail system of Asia. 9 metro line, and 7 train lines, 2 people-mover lines – all makes a very good transport system. Due to this reason, I heard that there is almost no bus survive, and inhabitants don’t use private cars. This could be a model of a city. Our capital Delhi, is also following Seoul, by opening many metro routes fast, to travel within a city very easily. Metro is the best transport for such a large and overcrowded city.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Woooow, Seoul has one of the best metro & suburban rail system of Asia. 9 metro line, and 7 train lines, 2 people-mover lines – all makes a very good transport system. Due to this reason, I heard that there is almost no bus survive, and inhabitants don’t use private cars. This could be a model of a city. Our capital Delhi, is also following Seoul, by opening many metro routes fast, to travel within a city very easily. Metro is the best transport for such a large and overcrowded city.
You heard wrong. Private cars are everywhere in Seoul (probably much more than Tokyo for example). And the city also has one of the world's most extensive bus network.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #149
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Well, the buses actually do very well, and unfortunately, a lot of people still choose to drive cars through the city, but it's probably fair to say that rail dominates in-city travel modes, something I think is likely to increase over time.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 04:17 PM   #150
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Bad news however, why don't the reduce number of buses and private cars to make Seoul cleaner & greener?

At last merging of all three operators is actively planning.

Line 1, Line 2, Line 3, Line 4 , Line 5, Line 6, Line 7,Line 8, Line 9, - all will be under one umbrella. Its very good. I hope it should be done soon.

The recriprocal service of Line 1, 3 & 4 is quite interesting. We can’t even imagine it in Delhi, our capital.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 06:30 PM   #151
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All the buses in the city run on fairly clean-burning natural gas, and there's a growing number of electric buses, as well. As for the cars...in my understanding, it's mostly a social problem, as it's a prestige thing to drive your own car around, this despite the intense traffic and high gas prices. I'm thinking that congestion pricing would help a bit, and a few trials of it around the city suggest it will.

I hadn't heard about the operator merger; do you have any sources? I hope it doesn't come with any penalties in service. In my personal experience, Seoul's metro is possibly the best in the world.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 02:58 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Woooow, Seoul has one of the best metro & suburban rail system of Asia. 9 metro line, and 7 train lines, 2 people-mover lines – all makes a very good transport system. Due to this reason, I heard that there is almost no bus survive, and inhabitants don’t use private cars. This could be a model of a city. Our capital Delhi, is also following Seoul, by opening many metro routes fast, to travel within a city very easily. Metro is the best transport for such a large and overcrowded city.
Seoul is world best subway system not only in Asia but also world
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Old June 27th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #153
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Gimpo GoldLine

The Gimpo GoldLine project under construction since 2013 is a 23,65km Automated Guideway Transit (AGT) in Gimpo City (Gyeonggi Province). The subway line follows the southern bank of the Han river.


View full



The project has nine stations between Gimpo International Airport (transfer with Seoul Subway Line 5, Line 9, Airport Railroad and Daegok-Sosa Line [2017]) and Gurae.

The nine stations are the following: 101 Gurae, 102 Masan, 103 Changgi, 104 Woonyang, 105 Bukbyeon, 106 Sawoo, 107 Poongmu, 108 Gochon, and 109 Gimpo International Airport.



Section map*:

Section 1: 4,7km Gurae ~ Changgi


Section 2: 3,7km Changgi ~ Bukbyeon


Section 3: 4,3km Bukbyeon ~ Sawoo


Section 4: 4,2km Sawoo ~ Gochon


Section 5: 6,7km Gochon ~ Gimpo International Airport


* Stations are an approximation, some sections finish halfway between the two.


Construction update (May ~ June, 2015):

102 Masan


103 Changgi




106 Sawoo


107 Poongmu


108 Gochon




The trains are AGT units made by Hyundai Rotem with two cars (2,65 m width and 28 m long) and third rail contact 750V DC. Same as Busan-Gimhae Light Rapid Transit. More: http://gimpo.kr.or.kr/sub/info.do?m=0301&s=gimpo












Source:
http://frdb2.wo.to/182.htm
https://www.facebook.com/gimpotrain/timeline
http://gimpo.kr.or.kr/main.do
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimpo_Goldline
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Old June 29th, 2015, 09:27 AM   #154
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http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/bulletin...ML?input=1195m

Seoul City has confirmed today its plans to build 90km of subway in by 2025. The plans were known already, but this commitment really will push the project forward. The investment will cost 8.7 trillion wons (over 8 billion dollars) and increase the network by 27% (Inside the city of Seoul, not the entire network).

The share of subway use (among other types of transportation) is expected to rise from 39% to 45% as a result of this expansion of the network.

Line breakdown :
- Sillim Line will be the first line to start construction, by the end of this year, and bring the N-S connection that Southern Seoul desperately needed. The line will link Yeuido Island with Seoul National University (the actual campus, not the existing station)
- Nangok Line will be an southern extension of the Sillim Line, a new branch facilitating commuting from southerstern Gwanak and Geumcheon districts
- Seobu line will also disenclave southern seoul, linking the existing SNU station to the eunpyeong district in northwestern seoul
- Mokdong line : a relatively short line from dangsan station near Yeuido westwards towards Mokdong.
- Wirye Tram. It would be the first modern tram in Korea (there is also a tram project in Changwon). A fairly short line connecting within the new city of Wirye, currently Under construction between Seongnam and Songpa in Southerstern Seoul
- Wirye-Sinsa line. Connecting the new Wyrie neighborhood with Gangnam, with the line terminating at Sinsa station. It could also be an important line in Gangnam, linking busy stations (Sinsa, Cheongdam, Bongeuna, Samseong), and further helping disenclaving (after the Bundang line northern extension) Northeastern Gangnam
- Seoul Subway Line 9 Phase 4. Phase 2, completed in March, brought the line to western Songpa. The line will further be extended eastwards by 2017 to Seoul Veterans Hospital in southern Gangdong. With that 4th phase, the line would go further North and intersect with line 5 again.
- Ui LRT Extension : A short extension of the Ui LRT line (scheduled for completion next year), allowing for a connection with line 1 at Banghak station
- Myeonmok line : a line in underdeveloped Eastern Seoul ( Dongdaemun and Jungryang districts)
- Another line for Eastern Seoul, this time a N-S line, linking the busy Wangsimni station to the North-East edge of the city in Junggye-dong
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Old June 29th, 2015, 08:24 PM   #155
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Is it possible to have a future map of Seoul metro and commuters lines in 2025?
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Old June 30th, 2015, 07:26 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
Is it possible to have a future map of Seoul metro and commuters lines in 2025?
This map says 2020. Red lines are existing plans and blue lines are possible lines, but not yet finalized.
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Old June 30th, 2015, 08:05 AM   #157
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Quote:
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This map says 2020. Red lines are existing plans and blue lines are possible lines, but not yet finalized.
That's incorrect. These are the 10 lines included for the 2025 plan. None of them have been built yet.

The red ones were the first ones to be proposed in a previous plan a couple of years ago. The blue ones were added to the proposal later on (last year I believe). But now, whether it's a blue line or a red line doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The first line to be built will be the Sillim Line (a red one), but the one that might start construction the soonest after the Sillim one might be the Sinsa-Wirye line (a blue one). So it's not like red lines are 100% approved, and blue lines just uncertain proposals.

Btw, FabriFlorence
I don't think there are any maps available including :
- The existing lines
- These 10 additional lines
- Lines already Under construction in Seoul (Ui LRT, Seoul Subway line 9 phase 3, Shinbundang line Northern extension) and in the rest of the Capital area (Gimpo gold line, Yeoju Line, Sosa-Wonsi line, Suin line, Sinansan line, Wolgot-Pangyo line....)
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Old July 18th, 2015, 05:29 AM   #158
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I don't think this has been reported yet...

Incheon City has submitted to the government a new plan for GTX Line B. Rather than going through Yeouido to Cheongryangni, the line would go further South from Bupyeong, and pretty much follow Seoul Subway Line 2 all the way to Jamsil in Southestern Seoul. According to their study, the economic feasability would be greatly improved.

There are lots of good things about this but also a few weaknesses :
- There are too many stops in or around Gangnam: GyoDae, Gangnam, Seolleung, Samseong (only Yeoksam would be "skipped"). That would kind of defeat the purpuse of a high speed subway. I'd take out Seolleung and GyoDae (or at least one of these two).
- Having all three GTX lines connect at Samseong would both favor Gangnam-gu too much, and make it less convenient for people who want to transfer between GTX trains (with other transfer options at Seoul Station and Cheongryangni).
- The Sindorim-Yeouido-Yongsan corridor is very vital to Seoul, and I think it made sense to have a GTX line there.

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?...aid=0010189900


Source : http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?...aid=0010189542

There was also a kind of similar project floating around last year for a deep express subway line alongside Line 2 (that wouldn't be part of KTX), but not going all the way to Songdo.
http://kojects.com/2015/04/22/expres...ned-long-term/

Obviously, I think that only one of these two projects can survive
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Old July 31st, 2015, 09:04 AM   #159
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Presentation video of the new Sosa-Wonsi line, scheduled for opening in early 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosa%E2%80%93Wonsi_Line

The line is expected to be merged with the Sosa-Daegok line on the North end, but Sosa-Daegok has yet to begin construction
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Old July 31st, 2015, 09:09 AM   #160
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Presentation video of the Incheon Subway Line 2, scheduled for opening in mid 2016.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incheon_Subway_Line_2
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