daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 1st, 2015, 03:15 PM   #261
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 411

Has this been posted?

https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.43814...7ZdeZxLoag!2e0

Wien in Klodzko, PL.

What's curious about the signage in Klodzko is that there's absolutely no mention that the border is closed to traffic over 7.5t, yet it's signposted as a route to Brno and Vienna.
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 1st, 2015, 03:56 PM   #262
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,449
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Absolutely - it's a border crossing, and it makes sense to at least give the distance. It would warn sheep of how far they have to go before they hit the usual mess, at least! But I've always wondered why European countries don't have long-distance signage on roads. I'm not saying after every junction, but every 50km or so, it would be nice to have a sign telling you how far to major destinations - for example, in Austria - signs telling you how far to Belgrade and Dubrovnik.
Bad idea, we don't need them. Highway signage must be the most coincise and basic possible, with no unnecessary information. People need to read the entire content of a (set of) sign(s) quickly, while driving at high speed. Overcrowded signage(*) is annoying and even dangerous, as it makes people slowing down where they aren't supposed to do that.
We have a brain that allow us to look at a map before starting a road trip. If one has to go from Vienna to Dubrovnik, he should know that he has to follow first Graz, then Maribor, then Zagreb, then Split and finally Dubrovnik.

(*) like it's usual in Austria (on motorways) and in Italy (outside motorways).
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Verso, SRC_100 liked this post
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 04:55 PM   #263
eindhoven the best
Eindhoven
 
eindhoven the best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eindhoven, NB
Posts: 752
Likes (Received): 287

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
That would be a lot more than 87 miles, let alone 87 km.
How do you mean?
__________________
SKIETE WILLY

As ge nie měr nčijsgierig bent, dan worde aauwd.

Fractielid LPF Eindhoven, nummer 6 op de kieslijst (Lijst 9)
eindhoven the best no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 04:59 PM   #264
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Bad idea, we don't need them. Highway signage must be the most coincise and basic possible, with no unnecessary information. People need to read the entire content of a (set of) sign(s) quickly, while driving at high speed. Overcrowded signage(*) is annoying and even dangerous, as it makes people slowing down where they aren't supposed to do that.
We have a brain that allow us to look at a map before starting a road trip. If one has to go from Vienna to Dubrovnik, he should know that he has to follow first Graz, then Maribor, then Zagreb, then Split and finally Dubrovnik.
Posting a separate sign every 50 km or so, as suggested by Eulanthe, will not make signage overcrowded. This type of separate signs showing focal points in the longer distance are for instance a feature of South African signage. On the N1 between Cape Town and Johannesburg, for instance, you won't find these cities on each distance sign, but motorists are given reassurance in this form every now and then. Though motorists know that they cannot use these cities in their navigation.

That said, you can only have something like four cities on these signs, which inevitably triggers the question which towns would be signposted. Even for a theoretical stand-alone sign in Austria, what makes Dubrovnik a logical choice? Comparing Central Europe to South Africa, the number of large towns in the medium to long distance is so big that it will be difficult to select four stand-out towns. Sometimes you can: for instance I like the one-off references to Vienna and Verona at Dreieck Inntal in Germany. It would not hurt at all to repeat these towns on a couple of signs downstream.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs

Penn's Woods liked this post
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 05:17 PM   #265
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
there is also Maribor signed, what are you maundering?
Happy New Year to you too... Graz is ballast IMO. Perfect in Varaždin would be Ptuj, but it's a bit too small and too close to Maribor. It's signposted on A4 though.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 05:20 PM   #266
eindhoven the best
Eindhoven
 
eindhoven the best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eindhoven, NB
Posts: 752
Likes (Received): 287

Autobahn 4 near Aachen (D). Venlo,Eindhoven (Nederland / Netherlands) Brussel (België / Belgium)

[IMG]http://i62.************/16bwtq8.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
SKIETE WILLY

As ge nie měr nčijsgierig bent, dan worde aauwd.

Fractielid LPF Eindhoven, nummer 6 op de kieslijst (Lijst 9)

SRC_100, Moravian liked this post
eindhoven the best no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 05:34 PM   #267
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

I think you misunderstood this topic:

Road signs showing cities in non-neighbouring foreign countries

The Netherlands and Belgium are directly neighboring Germany.

An example would be a road sign in Germany with an Italian destination, or a road sign in Denmark with a Dutch destination.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

Penn's Woods, Corvinus liked this post
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 05:34 PM   #268
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

del
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 06:16 PM   #269
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by eindhoven the best View Post
How do you mean?
Antwerp, Ohio, would be much more than 87 miles, or km, from that sign in the Netherlands. :-)
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 06:22 PM   #270
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Bad idea, we don't need them. Highway signage must be the most coincise and basic possible, with no unnecessary information. People need to read the entire content of a (set of) sign(s) quickly, while driving at high speed. Overcrowded signage(*) is annoying and even dangerous, as it makes people slowing down where they aren't supposed to do that.
We have a brain that allow us to look at a map before starting a road trip. If one has to go from Vienna to Dubrovnik, he should know that he has to follow first Graz, then Maribor, then Zagreb, then Split and finally Dubrovnik.

(*) like it's usual in Austria (on motorways) and in Italy (outside motorways).
If what Eulanthe's suggesting is what are sometimes called reassurance signs - a sign by the side of the road not at a junction listing several significant destinations and the distances to them, I think that's harmless. Where I agree with you European countries tend to give way too much information is at, or approaching, junctions where you have to take in lots of information at 130 km/h. (Don't get me wrong...French signs are lovely to look at pictures of...they give a reasonably clear picture of where you are on the map, although it wouldn't hurt them to give route numbers at Autoroute exits...but at speed?)

The U.S. goes to the other extreme, in my opinion...too little information. But I've said that many times on many threads.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 06:26 PM   #271
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Posting a separate sign every 50 km or so, as suggested by Eulanthe, will not make signage overcrowded. This type of separate signs showing focal points in the longer distance are for instance a feature of South African signage. On the N1 between Cape Town and Johannesburg, for instance, you won't find these cities on each distance sign, but motorists are given reassurance in this form every now and then. Though motorists know that they cannot use these cities in their navigation.

That said, you can only have something like four cities on these signs, which inevitably triggers the question which towns would be signposted. Even for a theoretical stand-alone sign in Austria, what makes Dubrovnik a logical choice? Comparing Central Europe to South Africa, the number of large towns in the medium to long distance is so big that it will be difficult to select four stand-out towns. Sometimes you can: for instance I like the one-off references to Vienna and Verona at Dreieck Inntal in Germany. It would not hurt at all to repeat these towns on a couple of signs downstream.
One problem with implementing this (good) idea is that some countries don't permit "one-off" references. Isn't the rule in France that once, say, Lille appears you should be able to follow "Lille" indications all the way there, so it'd need to show up at every Autoroute junction until you were actually there?
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 06:42 PM   #272
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Yep. It's known as the continuity principle, so local guidelines would need a bit of an amendment probably. Though the change wouldn't be a huge one. You'd require that focal points be kept on all signs downstream of a particular type: signposting X on your 'long distance reassurance sign' then means that X should be used on all long distance reassurance signs downstream, but not on regular directional signage. Until of course there comes the moment that X gets its place on the regular directional signage.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs

Penn's Woods liked this post
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 07:07 PM   #273
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

And - to get back to the topic of this thread - you'd need some international coordination. If the Dutch decided that the distance to Paris would be useful information on reassurance signs on the E19 southbound leaving Breda (or farther north, for that matter), the Belgians would need to keep showing Paris (or Parijs, but that opens a can of worms!) through their territory.
__________________

-Pino- liked this post
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 08:47 PM   #274
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 411

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
If what Eulanthe's suggesting is what are sometimes called reassurance signs - a sign by the side of the road not at a junction listing several significant destinations and the distances to them, I think that's harmless. Where I agree with you European countries tend to give way too much information is at, or approaching, junctions where you have to take in lots of information at 130 km/h. (Don't get me wrong...French signs are lovely to look at pictures of...they give a reasonably clear picture of where you are on the map, although it wouldn't hurt them to give route numbers at Autoroute exits...but at speed?)
Yes, simply reassurance signs - it would be located at regular intervals throughout Europe on major transit routes. Dubrovnik (in Austria) is one such example - a huge amount of traffic on the Austrian A9 is headed towards Dubrovnik and Belgrade, and signing the distance now and then to those destinations would make sense. A simple idea would be to place the signs before rest areas - reminding people that they have 800km to go and that taking a break isn't such a bad idea.
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 09:02 PM   #275
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
a huge amount of traffic on the Austrian A9 is headed towards Dubrovnik and Belgrade
Huge? Maybe 1% or so. There is significant traffic to Belgrade or beyond only on holidays. There isn't much traffic to Dubrovnik or beyond even in summer weekends. Most traffic throughout the year are locals.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 11:05 PM   #276
celevac
Registered User
 
celevac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Zadar
Posts: 132
Likes (Received): 90

Dubrovnik? That's ridiculous. Even in summer, most tourists come to Istra peninsula or northern Dalmatia, only a small amount of people drive all the way to Dubrovnik. Many people actually fly into Dubrovnik Airport.

However, Zagreb would be quite good to signpost in Austria. That does not mean that you have to remove Maribor. Never said that. But it would be good to mention the distance to Zagreb from time to time. They do it right from the Austria-Slovenia border as well, so why not starting at Graz or even earlier (on the A9 at least)?
__________________
Been to / driven in: A AL B BIH CAN CVA CZ D DK E F FIN FL GR L H HR I IRL M MC MK MNE NL PL RKS RO RSM RUS SLO SK SRB UK USA
celevac no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 11:17 PM   #277
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,474
Likes (Received): 2090

I don't know if this was already posted, but on Italian A21 near Alessandria there are a couple of distance signs showing Zagreb (signposted as the Italian exonym, Zagabria).
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2015, 11:34 PM   #278
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,447
Likes (Received): 1931

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think you misunderstood this topic:

Road signs showing cities in non-neighbouring foreign countries

The Netherlands and Belgium are directly neighboring Germany.

An example would be a road sign in Germany with an Italian destination, or a road sign in Denmark with a Dutch destination.
I read this and immediately thought of that sign at the autobahndreieck Inntal with Verona in it.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:59 AM   #279
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,449
Likes (Received): 2183

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't know if this was already posted, but on Italian A21 near Alessandria there are a couple of distance signs showing Zagreb (signposted as the Italian exonym, Zagabria).
Seriously? Any pic or Street View link?
If I remember well, Chriszwolle once mentioned a sign pointing to Rome near the Swiss border. I'd like to see it as well.

Anyway, A10 near Genoa


Bitch please
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2015, 02:02 AM   #280
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't know if this was already posted, but on Italian A21 near Alessandria there are a couple of distance signs showing Zagreb (signposted as the Italian exonym, Zagabria).
This sounds as random as it can get.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium