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Old August 28th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #61
Gag Halfrunt
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Quote:
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Ystad (Sweden) signed in Poland:
There are ferries to Ystad from Poland. And yes, I know this from watching Wallander.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Here you have an example.

Algeciras and Almeria are indicated, both in Spanish and Arabic.

All Spanish drivers will look for any other indication on crosses (Cordoba, Sevilla, Jaen...), but for someone who wants to go to Morocco or Algeria, these are the two main indications they need



Just a quick one for any Spanish readers...

Are Muslim visitors to Andalucía resented at all by the locals, in a similar vein to how the Poles resented German Heimwehtouristen?
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Old August 28th, 2011, 07:29 PM   #63
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I'm not Spanish, but I don't think the two situations can be compared. Germans lived in actual Poland until 60 years ago... Muslims ruled Andalucia more than 500 years ago. I don't think a Moroccan father says to his son "hey, why don't we go and see were your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather lived?"
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Old August 28th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #64
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They aren't exactly visitors either, they just go through Andalucia. And its not like all the Muslims left, the rulers did, the people stayed and gradually converted to Christianity
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Old August 28th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #65
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And its not like all the Muslims left, the rulers did, the people stayed and gradually converted to Christianity
Not exactly. The gradual conversion was made during the Reconquista beginning ca. in year 800 until 1500. In 1600 there were more than 320 thousand Muslims left in Spain, and few years later only 10000 remain, the others were in fact expelled.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #66
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Its true that many were expelled and many killed as well, but many converted to Christianity instead of expulsion, although the New-Christians were still killed sometimes
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Old August 28th, 2011, 11:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'm not Spanish, but I don't think the two situations can be compared. Germans lived in actual Poland until 60 years ago... Muslims ruled Andalucia more than 500 years ago. I don't think a Moroccan father says to his son "hey, why don't we go and see were your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather lived?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
They aren't exactly visitors either, they just go through Andalucia. And its not like all the Muslims left, the rulers did, the people stayed and gradually converted to Christianity
Muslims entered in Spain (and Portugal) in 711 and the arrived north in 720.
It is a "record" of conquering considering the century. The best explanation that you could find is that Spain and Portugal had a very good road network because Roman Heritage.

One of the most important battles was in the begining of Andalucia in 1212 (Navas de Tolosa, close to A-4) and made Al-Andalus (name of the Arabic territory) very small (and with a high density of population, as well as all of them where always retiring to some cities).

Final conquest was January 2nd, 1492 at Granada. Muslim presence at Europe went down with that.

1492... the same year (very little studied) when all jewish where expelled from Spain. There are still a little colony at Israel who speaks "sefardi", a dialect of Spanish... very curious because has not evolution. Something similar of talking a 15th century language. I tried once to understand a newspaper and was really difficult, even if almost of all words are in Spanish or are Spanish evolution in different way (it is not a Latin language but a Spanish language different evolution to a dialect): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardi_Jews#Language

And 1492, the year when three Spanish ships discovered America and began the conquests there.



Today there is nobody at Spain that can be considered as Muslim heritage. Of course there are a lot of buildings, art and even some words in Spanish that come from that Heritage.


Usually, Muslims travelers at Spain are people who were born in the north of Africa and live anywhere in centre-western Europe... and for holidays they get the car and make a several days trip.

There are also people in Spain... but they understand Spanish and do not need indications in their language.

But the number of people that comes from France, Belgium, Germany, northern Italy... to Morocco is really big.
And they do not know Spain, neither the language, neither the cities.

This is why, in some specific crosses it is pointed also in Arabic. And it is pointed only direction south. When they come back to their homes it is supposed they know the name of the cities even if different language (or at least, they took care in the first journey to know the name of the crosses).

There are not too many, but there are in the most important points.


On the other hand... I didn't find the signal on google but I remember that entering in Spain from Irun (Atlantic border with France) in the AP-8, near the cross to San Sebastian it is indicated in Portuguese and in Arabic that to go to Morocco and to Portugal all drivers must turn and take the A-1 there.

But I haven't seen any signal at Burgos pointing that direction Portugal they must continue A-62 -Valladolid and direction Morocco they must continue A-1 -Madrid.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 11:57 PM   #68
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Actually there are signs indicating Thessaloniki in Serbia near Nis


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/50169020
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Old August 31st, 2011, 11:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
On the other hand... I didn't find the signal on google but I remember that entering in Spain from Irun (Atlantic border with France) in the AP-8, near the cross to San Sebastian it is indicated in Portuguese and in Arabic that to go to Morocco and to Portugal all drivers must turn and take the A-1 there.
Wasn´t it the opposite: they must turn via Bilbao? I think they removed the signal.

Quote:
But I haven't seen any signal at Burgos pointing that direction Portugal they must continue A-62 -Valladolid and direction Morocco they must continue A-1 -Madrid.
After the toll-area there is a signal pointing Madria Valladolid Portugal.

It doesn´t make sense pointing the direction of a country ou city once, they should be announced frequently and I have doubt if it is so on the tables above.

EDIT: I found the new place of the sign: http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=...20.37,,0,10.81
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Last edited by slickman; August 31st, 2011 at 05:45 PM.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:12 AM   #70
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And... seems curious... because there is no border with Morocco in Europe (14 km of ocean). But they point where to go direction Morocco (several ports possible depending of your choice)
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:48 PM   #71
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Genova (I) ferry port with North African destinations given:

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Old October 2nd, 2011, 04:48 AM   #72
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image hosted on flickr
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Old October 2nd, 2011, 02:12 PM   #73
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Romania and Slovakia signed in Slovenia:


(my photo)
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:27 AM   #74
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Well... they are neighbourgh cities but it is an international signal.




I think (have to check) that it is the first indication (from that direction) where Gibraltar appears.

But... The mountain in the middle of the photo is Gibraltar. In the right you have the beach and sea. I think there is no way to get wrong until the last cross.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:28 AM   #75
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Is this La Linea?
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 12:32 AM   #76
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In Algeria showing Oujda a moroccan city

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Old October 22nd, 2011, 07:11 PM   #77
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Athens signed in Macedonia.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 09:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
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In Algeria showing Oujda a moroccan city

Old pic or they just reopen the border? Or maybe is open only for autorized people?
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 09:59 PM   #79
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This thread is for non-neighboring foreign countries. Which Algeria isn't in Morocco and Greece isn't in Macedonia.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #80
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Old pic or they just reopen the border? Or maybe is open only for autorized people?
It's not open at all at this time. Notice there are barriers all across the carriageways after the exit.

The message communicated is that this side (Algeria) is prepared to reopen the border.
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