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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:51 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
or are you doing an Alaska/Russia-and-jump-to-Kaliningrad/Poland thing?
Probably.

We could do a France-Peru one, via Brazil.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 08:15 PM   #182
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[IMG]http://i40.************/rcowad.jpg[/IMG]
A sign in Iran
The last number is 265 km
The two last cities Karbala and Najaf are in Iraq. Mehran is the border city.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #183
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The two last cities Karbala and Najaf are in Iraq. Mehran is the border city.
Why do they show Iraqi cities? Is there many traffic between Iran and Iraq? And how about cities in other neighbouring countries of Iran? Do they appear on signs as well?
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Old September 13th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #184
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They show it because they are shia holy cities and lots of people go there for religious porpouses. The name of not this road but another road that goes to Baghdad from Iran is Karbala road. Baghdad is closer to Iran but only Karbala is on the signs.
I didn't see other cities from other countries but I saw the border city of Bazargan (Between IR and TR) from 100 km from Tehran on signs with 800 km distance
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Old September 16th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #185
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Austrian sign in Italy (Brenner)
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Old September 16th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #186
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Well, that was good...
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Old September 16th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #187
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The Nordics does not have many major international routes, however in Sweden the important international ones is signposted very inconsistently. In the far north only Haparanda and not Tornio is signposted. The E4 even ends in Tornio, 1 km across the border at an intersection with the E8 in Finland. Trondheim in Norway on the E14 is signposted already from Sundsvall. From Stockholm (except for local signage for Tallinn and Helsinki) the only international destination signposted is Oslo on the E18, while Gothenburg is shown as the final destination on the E20. Southbound from Stockholm, only Helsingborg is signposted on the E4 (quite naturally, as the E4 ends there). Local signage in Helsingborg show Helsingør in DK. In Gothenburg, Frederikshavn and the E45 in DK accessed by sea is shown, including some local version oval with EU stars. However southbound from Gothenburg, signage only show Malmø as a destination, although the E20 continues across the Øresund and through Denmark. Even after passing Helsingborg southbound on the E20/E6 only Malmø is normally signposted. Only after reaching Malmø and when literally on the Outer ring is Copenhagen shown as a destination! The same goes for the E6 northbound from Malmø, not until Gothenburg is Oslo signposted.

I find especially the Copenhagen situation strange, not only because Copenhagen is the major regional destination, largest city, metro region and most definitely also the capital of Scandinavia (subjective but true!), but also because Copenhagen is on the only fixed link to and from the Scandinavian peninsula. I can only assume this preference derives from before the bridge was built, although 11 years have now passed.

Furthermore, I'm in doubt of how mutually intelligible Swedish 'Köpenhamn' compared to Danish 'København' and the more international 'Copenhagen/Kopenhagen' is to foreigners. As Sweden does not use country ovals officially, Copenhagen ought to be signposted bilingually in Danish or English and not Swedish only. Preferably already from Oslo and Gothenburg and as an indirect destination on the E4 from Stockholm.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #188
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Kopenhamn is understandable I'd say
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Old September 17th, 2011, 10:42 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durin View Post
The Nordics does not have many major international routes, however in Sweden the important international ones is signposted very inconsistently. In the far north only Haparanda and not Tornio is signposted. The E4 even ends in Tornio, 1 km across the border at an intersection with the E8 in Finland. Trondheim in Norway on the E14 is signposted already from Sundsvall. From Stockholm (except for local signage for Tallinn and Helsinki) the only international destination signposted is Oslo on the E18, while Gothenburg is shown as the final destination on the E20. [...]
I think, the Swedish way of singposting is rather consistent. Like in most other countries, the focus of signposting is the national road network: The default destinations are those cities close to the border if there is any. That is why Göteborg, Haparanda, Helsingborg and Malmö are logical choices.

I would expect that showing St Petersburg as the destination on E20 rather than Stockholm might cause some noise.

If there is not a self-evident choice to show as a destination, a foreign city is shown. That explains names Oslo, Trondheim, Kongsvinger, Røros, etc in the signs.

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Furthermore, I'm in doubt of how mutually intelligible Swedish 'Köpenhamn' compared to Danish 'København' and the more international 'Copenhagen/Kopenhagen' is to foreigners.
I do not believe this will make any issue.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 04:37 PM   #190
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Funny thing is the Bodø signs running all the way from Skellefteå on road 95. The distance is 500km and passes more logical destination Arjeplog. Soon as the road crosses border and later meets up with E6 there is not a sign for Bodø, but Fauske...

At the interesection in Norway is signs for Graddis, Luleå and Arjeplog
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Old September 17th, 2011, 05:55 PM   #191
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Even after passing Helsingborg southbound on the E20/E6 only Malmø is normally signposted. Only after reaching Malmø and when literally on the Outer ring is Copenhagen shown as a destination! I find especially the Copenhagen situation strange, not only because Copenhagen is the major regional destination, largest city, metro region and most definitely also the capital of Scandinavia (subjective but true!), but also because Copenhagen is on the only fixed link to and from the Scandinavian peninsula.
I think the signage of Copenhagen is sufficient, how many cars on the E20/E6 drive with final destination Copenhagen ? 1 or 2 %

Remember the bridge has a fee of a hefty 50€ single journey, then you have the language barrier other culture, currency. The majority of swedish Copenhagen visitors park their car at Svågertorp and take the train further.

Malmö is btw signposted in Copenhagen, probably more than Copenhagen in Sweden?
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Old September 17th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #192
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From the O4 x E20 intersection atleast. Svågertorp doesn't have trains bound for Copenhagen tough.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 06:31 PM   #193
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The tolls for frequent users are much lower, especially if you're a daily commuter it's only a few euros per passage.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Like in most other countries, the focus of signposting is the national road network: The default destinations are those cities close to the border if there is any. That is why Göteborg, Haparanda, Helsingborg and Malmö are logical choices.
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
If there is not a self-evident choice to show as a destination, a foreign city is shown. That explains names Oslo, Trondheim, Kongsvinger, Røros, etc in the signs.
Yes, and that among other things is why I find signage inconsistent. To me, Copenhagen is the more obvious destination than Malmö for traffic bound for Denmark and the continent. Especially when Sweden is not using country code ovals. This while Oslo is signposted as the primary destination along the entire E18 in Sweden as it is a major city, however several larger cities inside Sweden are situated along the route that could, under your logic, serve as final destinations; Västerås, Örebro, Karlstad. Tornio is not signposted on the E4 although it is the larger and 'original' urban and regional centre.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I would expect that showing St Petersburg as the destination on E20 rather than Stockholm might cause some noise.
I was referring to the E20 westbound, not eastbound, from Stockholm. My point is neither that cities situated along E-roads far away in other countries, nor that international destinations accessed by sea should be signposted as final destinations, only that international destinations with a land connection or fixed link should be. On the E18 in Finland, eastbound from Helsinki, if it already isn't, I believe St. Petersburg should be signposted as the final destination.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I think the signage of Copenhagen is sufficient, how many cars on the E20/E6 drive with final destination Copenhagen ? 1 or 2 %

Remember the bridge has a fee of a hefty 50€ single journey, then you have the language barrier other culture, currency.
My point is that Sweden should sign consistently. If Oslo is serving as the final E18 destination, so should Copenhagen on the E20. The toll on the bridge may be dear, but the bridge is still is a major international link and also carries a lot of traffic to and from the continent. Indeed a lot of the traffic would be bypassing Copenhagen. However as Sweden is lacking any other country identifier, such as ovals, Copenhagen and not only Malmö should be signposted.

As European road freight and travel increases, I believe a slight overhaul of highway signage in Sweden is needed. The main reason being, that they're very able to to do it properly on the continent!

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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Malmö is btw signposted in Copenhagen, probably more than Copenhagen in Sweden?
Malmö and 'Sverige via Helsingör (ferry)' is signposted mainly on the E20 when in Copenhagen, from the O4 and inbound, so just about the same policy as in Sweden.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #196
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Yes, and that among other things is why I find signage inconsistent. To me, Copenhagen is the more obvious destination than Malmö for traffic bound for Denmark and the continent.
Why Copenhagen? The E20 just passes Copenhagen and continues to Esbjerg. To be consistent with the 'follow E road until' logic, the destination should be Esbjerg. And the E18 should be signposted to Kristiansand instead of Oslo.

I do not think any country uses international cities as the default destinations of signage on E roads except close to the borders. For most countries, the E roads are just extra numbers on the signs.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:10 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Why Copenhagen? The E20 just passes Copenhagen and continues to Esbjerg. To be consistent with the 'follow E road until' logic, the destination should be Esbjerg. And the E18 should be signposted to Kristiansand instead of Oslo.

I do not think any country uses international cities as the default destinations of signage on E roads except close to the borders. For most countries, the E roads are just extra numbers on the signs.
Doesn't necessarily have to be Copenhagen, I would be satisfied with Malmö and a DK oval on signs. Copenhagen just happens to be the first major city across the border. Just as Oslo is on the E18, which I've already mentioned.

I'm not specifically referring to the E road network, just to major national motorways that happen to serve as international routes. The Nordic countries (except for Finland) are unique in using E numbering exclusively for our highways so why shouldn't we utilize the full potential of the system?

An example from Slovenia, however somewhat cluttered:

(c) Verso
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:22 PM   #198
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Funny thing is the Bodø signs running all the way from Skellefteå on road 95. The distance is 500km and passes more logical destination Arjeplog.
Arjeplog?

Arjeplog is known for its cultural heritage, but it still is an insignificant village of 3000 inhabitants. Bodø is a town of 47000 people.

Quote:
Soon as the road crosses border and later meets up with E6 there is not a sign for Bodø, but Fauske...

At the interesection in Norway is signs for Graddis, Luleå and Arjeplog
I think, Norway is known for other things than the logic and continuity of the signage...

Quite often, the signage is not seamless at the borders. For instance, the E10 in Sweden is first signposted to Kiruna, then to Narvik. In Narvik, there are no signs to E10. At the intersection of E6 and E10, the destination shown is not Kiruna but Luleå. At the Norwegian-Swedish border, the name Luleå disappears and reappears in Kiruna.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Quite often, the signage is not seamless at the borders. For instance, the E10 in Sweden is first signposted to Kiruna, then to Narvik. In Narvik, there are no signs to E10. At the intersection of E6 and E10, the destination shown is not Kiruna but Luleå. At the Norwegian-Swedish border, the name Luleå disappears and reappears in Kiruna.
That is, unfortunately, a phenomenon around many border crossings. A few prominent examples in the Benelux:
- the final signs on the German A3 include Utrecht, once you cross the border, the signs on the Dutch A12 do not.
- the final signs on the Dutch A2 include Brussels, nothing to be found on the Belgian side (even though there is a Dutch sign that says "Brussels follow Liège")
- Around Aachen, there are signs to Brussels. Those simply cease once you cross into Belgium.
- The Belgians signpost Saarbrücken on their E42, which is nowhere to be seen once you cross into Germany.

When signposting towns in neighbouring countries, I would expect road authorities to look at the signs as they are across the border, simply to make sure continuity. But there is a huge gap between theory and practice there...
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #200
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Doesn't necessarily have to be Copenhagen, I would be satisfied with Malmö and a DK oval on signs. Copenhagen just happens to be the first major city across the border. Just as Oslo is on the E18, which I've already mentioned.
Well, I still see Sweden being very logical and consistent in this sense. They just follow a different logic path from you: If there is a major city close to the border, then show that as the destination. If not, then show some city across the border.

Sweden seems to think Malmö is big enough a city to be shown in the long-haul signage, but Karlstad is not. Anyway, Copenhagen is shown as a destination on E20 prior to reaching Malmö. No big changes to get lost.

BTW, Denmark is following a similar logic to Sweden. The eastbound E20 is signposted to Copenhagen, and signs to Malmö appear at the junction of O4.

Last edited by MattiG; September 17th, 2011 at 09:50 PM.
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