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Old May 26th, 2011, 09:40 AM   #101
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The Dutch follow their own logic of signposting cities in their native tongue. They do so in respect of Brussels. It's not a Dutch problem that it does not follow the French logic. In fact, we do not follow French logic on many points, our newspapers would not defend politicians assaulting hotel staff. Personally, I bother more about situations where the Dutch deviate from their own logic, namely where they signpost Luik instead of Ličge. And there are a few other instances too where the endonym principle is not properly adhered to.
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Old May 26th, 2011, 09:58 AM   #102
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Uh-oh.

Ahem.

Brisavoine does have a point, I think; Brussels is predominantly French-speaking, by far, and if the policy is to identify Brussels in its language(s), I think you have to either use both (my preference*) or go with the French. I can't quite figure out - it's late here - what the fact that Aosta's signposted in Italian in France has to do with it; it seemed to me at the time that the fact that France ignores Dutch for Brussels was inconsistent with B.'s argument and the Aosta example.

*And the fact that this is signage in the Netherlands we're talking about probably shifts the scale in favor of using both French and Dutch rather than French only.

On that note, you all can argue about Brussels, Aosta and Dominique Strauss-Kahn among yourselves for the next several hours. [yawn]. Goedenacht/bonne nuit. Or rather, goedemorgen/bonne matinée.
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Old May 26th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #103
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Brussels is officially bilingual and therefore has two official names that officially stand on equal terms with each other. The French-speaking majority in town is of no official relevance until the bilinguism gets officially removed. In fact, bilinguism tends to be introduced in order to protect a minority against majority rule. If that is one's starting point, saying that signposting Brussel is off because of that French-speaking majority is the beginning of the end of the protection that I mentioned. Even though the Dutch are by no means bound by Belgian politics, I think that they can be completely at ease in opting for Brussel, thus disregarding majorities. Like the French would have been at ease in signposting Aoste instead of Aosta.

Bilinguism is of course always an option, but I think that it has an adverse effect on the legibility of signs. As far as the Dutch are concerned, you will only come across bilinguism on town limit signs, never on directional signs. I think that is a good thing, and
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Old May 26th, 2011, 10:16 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
In fact, bilinguism tends to be introduced in order to protect a minority against majority rule. If that is one's starting point, saying that signposting Brussel is off because of that French-speaking majority is the beginning of the end of the protection that I mentioned.
Oh, so you're implying that it's signed as "Brussel" alone in order to protect the Flemish minority in Brussels? If that's the logic, then surely if you signpost San Sebastian in the Netherlands, you should signpost it as "Donostia" alone.
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Old May 26th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #105
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Oh, so you're implying that it's signed as "Brussel" alone in order to protect the Flemish minority in Brussels? If that's the logic, then surely if you signpost San Sebastian in the Netherlands, you should signpost it as "Donostia" alone.
Well if Basque was also the language of the Netherlands, one might expect it may make some difference

If one place (Brussels) has a bilingual policy under which two names (Bruxelles and Brussel) are equal and another country (the Netherlands) is going to choose just one then surely the fact that one name (Brussel) is used in the language of that country (Netherlands) is going to tilt things in favour of that name.

The authorities are going to be looking at the legal policy in regards to bilingualism which says the two names are equal as their starting point, rather than the demographics.

Closest example I can think of (though it is not identical) is in the UK where Welsh places are signed in Welsh and English in Wales, but in England in English only. So for example in Wales you'll see signs for Cardiff and Caerdydd, but on the English side of the border only Cardiff.
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Old May 26th, 2011, 11:47 PM   #106
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Okay Belgium is very complicated. There is even a big differents in giving city-names by the Dutch and the Flemish.

For example for the cities Mons (Belgium) and Lille (France).
If an Flemish person ask an Dutch person where Bergen or Rijsel is, the Dutch won't know it. However in Dutch, Mons and Lille literally means Bergen and Rijsel. So the signs in Flanders wil say Rijsel, but for the Dutch people it's Lille.

French: Mons | Flemish: Bergen | Dutch: Mons
French: Lille | Flemish: Rijsel | Dutch: Lille
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Old May 26th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #107
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Near Amsterdam A1

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Old May 26th, 2011, 11:55 PM   #108
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That sign is gone now, isn't it?
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Old May 28th, 2011, 08:15 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Close to the Canada/US border.

Near the City of White Rock, just south of the HWY 99/King George Bvd. jct.
http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=49...201.24,,2,1.91
In Canada and the US, signs designating cities in the neighboring state or country is quite the norm. For example in British Columbia, Seattle is signposted throughout the major arteries of Metro Vancouver ; on the Trans Canada Freeway as early as Horseshoe Bay, on Granville, Oak, Cambie, on the Vancouver-Blaine Fwy etc. and the same is seen along the major arteries in Washington State. For example the control city on the I-5 north of Seattle is solely Vancouver BC. Vancouver is posted in several points south of Seattle and Portland as well. The same is true for several other cities.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 04:40 AM   #110
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Manderfeld,Belgium



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Old June 23rd, 2011, 03:35 PM   #111
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Near Calais, France....

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Old August 24th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #112
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hybrid sign : the Austrian A13 shown on Italian A22.
Blue background color as in Austria but in the Italian Octagon

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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Why should Brussels be signed in both French and Dutch in France? France doesn't pretend to sign cities in their native tongues as the Dutch do. What I found funny with that Dutch sign was how it didn't follow its own politically-correct logic.
Mind that Brussels plays an important part in the history of the Netherlands (having been the capitol of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Duchy of Brabant, the Seventeen Provinces and the Southern Netherlands), that the name 'Brussel' itself is derived from a dutch geonym and that the city's history is in no way as deeply entwined with French history. So we present day dutchies simply think of it as 'Brussel' and not as 'Bruxelles'.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 02:39 AM   #114
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Quote:
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Mind that Brussels plays an important part in the history of the Netherlands (having been the capitol of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands,
Amsterdam was the capital of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
and that the city's history is in no way as deeply entwined with French history.


Are you serious?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 03:04 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzpunkt View Post
hybrid sign : the Austrian A13 shown on Italian A22.
Blue background color as in Austria but in the Italian Octagon

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O...4/s800/A13.jpg
funny,
here is austrian A2 signed on a green Italian sign:

image hosted on flickr

Salzburg - Berlin 022 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
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Old August 25th, 2011, 03:07 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Amsterdam was the capital of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands.



Are you serious?
Yes. Utterly serious.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 03:24 AM   #117
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Well then perhaps you should get outside of the Netherlands and explore the world a bit to see different points of views and and different perspectives on things.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #118
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Are you going to the Netherlands to see their perspective?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #119
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As promised, the sign pointing to Guarda, Portugal in Alaejos, Spain: http://g.co/maps/scz8. This town is the one the farthest away from Wellington, New Zealand (It's just a couple km North of the antipodal point, measuring from where is the star in Google Earth).
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Old August 25th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #120
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Germany - Zittau.


Poland - Porajów.


Czech Republik - Nachod.


Poland - Kamienna Góra.


Poland - Lubawka.
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