daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 25th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #121
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

Far away, CNGL....

Pau is pointed in the city centre of Zaragoza.

http://maps.google.es/?ll=41.65685,-...05.28,,0,14.35

260 km away.


Anyway, this image already does not exist because that street is on works for tramway.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 25th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #122
Corvinus
License plate spotter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: H / D / CH
Posts: 1,058
Likes (Received): 1190

In Chiasso (CH)

Corvinus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #123
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
Yes. Utterly serious.
You mean, between 1815 and 1830? Weren't Amsterdam and Brussels sort of alternating capitals (or the Hague and Brussels alternating seats of government)?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #124
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
Mind that Brussels plays an important part in the history of the Netherlands (having been the capitol of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Duchy of Brabant, the Seventeen Provinces and the Southern Netherlands), that the name 'Brussel' itself is derived from a dutch geonym and that the city's history is in no way as deeply entwined with French history. So we present day dutchies simply think of it as 'Brussel' and not as 'Bruxelles'.
But - and I'm not taking sides on this because I can see both sides' points - is how the Dutch think of the city relevant? If you're calling Liège Liège and Cologne Köln, it's not because that's how the Dutch think of them but because that's how the inhabitants of those cities think of them. Which, it seems to me, would weigh in favor (if only for the sake of consistency) of calling Brussels by the name(s) the inhabitants of Brussels use.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 05:46 PM   #125
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

That'd be Bruxelles to begin with, followed by Brussels. Even though the official languages are French and Dutch, English is mostly spoken after French. Dutch only comes third.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 06:05 PM   #126
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Yes, but next to no one in Brussels speaks English as their first language, even if they all persist in thinking they speak it well. :-P And it's not an official language, yet, either.

At any rate, even Brits and Americans who get chills at the notion of people not speaking English ought to understand "Brussel" on a sign - they'll just think it's a spelling error.

(Seriously. For those who are interested, there's a report on this I've read. My computer's not letting me download it, but it's cited and summarized at number 13 on this page: http://www.brusselsstudies.be/public...ey/38/lang/en# If you click on the "more," you get a longer version of the summary, including a sentence which pretty much says what I just said about English, which it recognizes as being in third place.)

Maar wat heb je tegen het Nederlands? Heb ik begrepen dat je gedeeltelijk Hollands bent?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Last edited by Penn's Woods; August 25th, 2011 at 06:11 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #127
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Yes, but next to no one in Brussels speaks English as their first language, even if they all persist in thinking they speak it well. :-P And it's not an official language, yet, either.

At any rate, even Brits and Americans who get chills at the notion of people not speaking English ought to understand "Brussel" on a sign - they'll just think it's a spelling error.

(Seriously. For those who are interested, there's a report on this I've read. My computer's not letting me download it, but it's cited and summarized at number 13 on this page: http://www.brusselsstudies.be/public...ey/38/lang/en# If you click on the "more," you get a longer version of the summary, including a sentence which pretty much says what I just said about English, which it recognizes as being in [U]th

Maar wat heb je tegen het Nederlands? Heb ik begrepen dat je gedeeltelijk Hollands bent?
Yes, I'm half Dutch, and both English and Dutch are my native languages. I speak fluent German as well, and get by in French. I'm an allround European, and I don't understand a thing about this language war in Belgium. I understand what's going on and find it all plainly childish. I think that Belgium sets a very bad example to European unity!
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 06:48 PM   #128
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

Road_UK, you share two heritages, you travel a lot and you're very lucky about this. Unfortunately many people are born, raised and die in the same location and don't get to travel around, let alone feel an European citizen. Language wars may seem silly and pointless, and to some extent they are: but languages are a huge part of someone's cultural heritage, and it is easy to understand why they fight for that.
Although I'm Italian, Italian is not my native language, I learned it in school (to some extent, because often our teacher spoke dialect). My own dialect is part of me, and no matter how silly it may seem, I'm not willing to give it away.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #129
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

And I applaud you for that. Same goes for this Zillertal dialect which I have started to learn, because I want to integrate. But once infrastructure becomes subjected to disagreement between two kinds of people in one country, it would be seen by the outside world as childish. Belgium sets a very bad example. The more so, because its capital is also the capital of the EU. This results in all of us becoming a laughing stock.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #130
julesstoop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Likes (Received): 80

I was just trying to give some (-what of a half-assed, I must admit) explanation for our sometimes inconsistent international signage for the specific case of Brussels. And for this case I believe it partly has to do with our very long history of cultural and political ties with the city. When I visit Brussels - looking at the older - pre-1830 - buildings, I always have the feeling that Brussels is a 'Netherlandic' city (I'm avoiding the word 'dutch' here, because my observation has nothing to do with language). Looking at the later Brussels from 1830-1940, I percieve the Belgian style as a mixture between French, dutch (sorry 'Netherlandic') and other international styles and the post WWII-city is clearly international.
__________________
--
Lapinisme blijft relevant...
julesstoop no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:04 PM   #131
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

May I ask how are relations between Wallonia and France and between Flanders and Netherlands? Is there a feeling of language and cultural unity or everyone minds his own business?
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #132
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 892

I think that the Dutch and the Flemish like each other, but that the Flemish are a bit uneasy (they didn;t fight for independence for nothing). I think that the French feel connected to the Walloons but that the Wallons couldn't care less about the French, and wouldn't like to join them
DanielFigFoz está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #133
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

In my opinion, apart from the shared language, Dutch and Flemish people have not much in common.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:37 PM   #134
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,455
Likes (Received): 2185

I've heard that many Belgians, including categories such shopping or restaurant attendants, etc..., react very badly if someone speak to them in French (if Flemish) or in Dutch (if Wallonian) and they refuse to answer in that language even if they know it. Is really so widespread this rudeness or are only some stupid nationalists?
If a foreign come to my country and I can help him\her by knowing some word of his\her language I'm happy to do that!
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:42 PM   #135
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

Parisians are notorious for that. And this does not even involve Dutch.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #136
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In my opinion, apart from the shared language, Dutch and Flemish people have not much in common.
I agree. Just a little note on the side: Both the French and the Dutch make jokes about Belgians and their alledged dumbness. Brits are starting on them as well now, and the Germans are now joining in with caution. This is directed to all Belgians, no distinction between Walloons and the Flemish.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #137
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Parisians are notorious for that. And this does not even involve Dutch.
Paris city council are trying to turn this around, as this kind of rudness prompts people to visit Prague instead. Most of the French are tolerant enough now to at least try and be helpful in English or German.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #138
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,455
Likes (Received): 2185

I've heard also about British who refuse to answer to foreigns who speak a bad English and sometimes they even mock them.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #139
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

You're right, in Marseille people were friendly and generally spoke good English. With one exception: at the Marseille International Airport nobody spoke English

But I've never even been in Paris, so it's just "relata refero".
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #140
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I think that the Dutch and the Flemish like each other, but that the Flemish are a bit uneasy (they didn;t fight for independence for nothing). I think that the French feel connected to the Walloons but that the Wallons couldn't care less about the French, and wouldn't like to join them
It's none of my business so I'm hesitant about giving my impressions. But I'm weighing in on your remark that "the French feel connected to the Walloons but that the Wallons couldn't care less about the French, and wouldn't like to join them," because it's borne out by recent polls (a majority of French people want to annex Wallonia, but a majority of Walloons don't want to be annexed).

That's politically. From a cultural point of view, a population of four million Francophone Belgians sitting right next to 60 million French people is obviously going to watch the same TV shows and films, read the same books.... Reading Francophone Belgian papers on those fields is like reading French papers. And they do cover French politics, as much as or more than any other foreigh country including the U.S., and have a perspective on world affairs that is sort of centered on the Paris-Brussels corridor. Le Soir of Brussels even has a "France" page on its website, sitting between "Belgium" and "World." Personally, I think "Europe" would be more appropriate - particularly in Brussels, of all places - they could still fill it up with coverage of France. But again, I have no business thinking anything.... I pay so much attention to Belgium because I've been there and like(d) it, and the dynamic fascinates me.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium