Iraqi Military News

[sheytanElKebir]

The reasons would not be valid if there were no Kurds in the Iraqi armed forces. But there's already a very large number of Kurds, and there's nothing stopping anyone from Kurdistan from joining the Iraqi Army, Air force or Navy.

Kurdistan has its "own" army which is its own Private militia, I don't see why the pensions of Kurdistan's private militias should be paid for by Iraq? The budget to absorb those 2 "racially Kurdish" divisions as well as pay Iraqi government pensions for 150,000 "retired peshmargas" should be spent on plugging the gap in the Iraqi military's capability, namely airpower and more tanks.

Kurdistan is just trying to improve its budget balance by offloading their "baggage" onto the central government. Hopefully the Iraqis are not stupid enough to cave in (yet again!) and rob the rest of Iraq (yet again).

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

The reasons would not be valid if there were no Kurds in the Iraqi armed forces. But there's already a very large number of Kurds, and there's nothing stopping anyone from Kurdistan from joining the Iraqi Army, Air force or Navy.

Kurdistan has its "own" army which is its own Private militia, I don't see why the pensions of Kurdistan's private militias should be paid for by Iraq? The budget to absorb those 2 "racially Kurdish" divisions as well as pay Iraqi government pensions for 150,000 "retired peshmargas" should be spent on plugging the gap in the Iraqi military's capability, namely airpower and more tanks.

Kurdistan is just trying to improve its budget balance by offloading their "baggage" onto the central government. Hopefully the Iraqis are not stupid enough to cave in (yet again!) and rob the rest of Iraq (yet again).

The peshmerga is not a militia, it's recognised by the Iraqi government as the region border guards! and a part of the Iraqi defense system (apparently) and the Kurds in the Iraqi army serve in Mosul and areas around it which is not part of the KRG which is fine, the KRG however is a different entity and has a recognised military force called the KRGB (Kurdistan region border guards)

Now, basically what happens is Oil payment from the KRG goes to Baghdad. Then this is how Baghdad works things out:

Total budget - Defense budget (I believe some other factors here too)
Remaining budget 87% Baghdad 13% Erbil (where as it's supposed to be 17% erbil).

So you see, while we contribute to the main budget, we should receive back 17% of the defense budget too by law, but we have not received anything yet (I think they have/will this year).

[sheytanElKebir]

Originally Posted by kurd123

The peshmerga is not a militia, it's recognised by the Iraqi government as the region border guards! and a part of the Iraqi defense system (apparently) and the Kurds in the Iraqi army serve in Mosul and areas around it which is not part of the KRG which is fine, the KRG however is a different entity and has a recognised military force called the KRGB (Kurdistan region border guards)

Now, basically what happens is Oil payment from the KRG goes to Baghdad. Then this is how Baghdad works things out:

Total budget - Defense budget (I believe some other factors here too)
Remaining budget 87% Baghdad 13% Erbil (where as it's supposed to be 17% erbil).

So you see, while we contribute to the main budget, we should receive back 17% of the defense budget too by law, but we have not received anything yet (I think they have/will this year).

1- you only contribute 50% of your tiny oil production for the past 3-4 months (instead of 80%) I wouldn't be bragging about this point IMHO.

2- Iraq does not take the Ministry of Interior budget away from the Kurdish "portion" which is where the KRG is supposed to fund its own "ministry of interior forces" (i.e. Peshmarga).

Now if Iraq today starts to "cut off" the national Ministry of Interior budget out of the Kurdish share, THEN you would have a VALID point since Kurdistan would be paying for the Ministry of Interior Budget, but not receiving the budget back! But since Iraq DOES NOT cut off the Ministry of interior Budget from Kurdistan, your argument has no financial basis.

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

1- you only contribute 50% of your tiny oil production for the past 3-4 months (instead of 80%) I wouldn't be bragging about this point IMHO.

Could have been two years and close to 500k barrels by now if not for your bickering

2- Iraq does not take the Ministry of Interior budget away from the Kurdish "portion" which is where the KRG is supposed to fund its own "ministry of interior forces" (i.e. Peshmarga).

Now if Iraq today starts to "cut off" the national Ministry of Interior budget out of the Kurdish share, THEN you would have a VALID point since Kurdistan would be paying for the Ministry of Interior Budget, but not receiving the budget back! But since Iraq DOES NOT cut off the Ministry of interior Budget from Kurdistan, your argument has no financial basis.

Any source for that? if you have valid evidence than I'll agree, becuase I always thought they did cut the ministry of interior budget off the main budget first.

[sheytanElKebir]

Kurd123. KRG receives its own MOI budget allocation as part of its "share" of the overall budget.

It does not receive the DEFENCE budget though. I guess you mixed the two up.

The Iraqi ministry of interior pays for:
-police
-intelligence service
-SWAT units
-Helicopters
-river police
-Department of Border Enforcement
-border crossings
-Carabineri (paramilitary units in lightly armoured vehicles).

they also pay the pensions liabilities of Iraqi policemen.

KRG has been given the exact same budget as the rest of Iraq for the purpose.

The problem is that KRGs expenditure is higher on a per capita basis than Iraq (mainly because of the whole barzani-talabani duplication etc...).


With regards to the oil. its offtopic here. but I note you didn't make a retort about the %

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

Kurd123. KRG receives its own MOI budget allocation as part of its "share" of the overall budget.

It does not receive the DEFENCE budget though. I guess you mixed the two up.

The Iraqi ministry of interior pays for:
-police
-intelligence service
-SWAT units
-Helicopters
-river police
-Department of Border Enforcement
-border crossings
-Carabineri (paramilitary units in lightly armoured vehicles).

they also pay the pensions liabilities of Iraqi policemen.

KRG has been given the exact same budget as the rest of Iraq for the purpose.

The problem is that KRGs expenditure is higher on a per capita basis than Iraq (mainly because of the whole barzani-talabani duplication etc...).


With regards to the oil. its offtopic here. but I note you didn't make a retort about the %

I'm not sure about that, I have some reading to do I guess. Anyways what I think the KRG needs is:

-70,000 soldiers
-Modern Tanks
-Modern helicopters
-Medical teams with good transportation
-Good logistics
-High standard training
-Good air defense (Guns, batteries etc)
-Artillery
-Engineering teams/Commando units.
-Maybe some reserves (Paid by KRG)

But not jets... jets should only be owned by Baghdad (as long as the KRG is bound to Iraq)

That would be much better.

[sheytanElKebir]

the KRG receives only the budget of the MOI standard. Therefore there's not enough money in it to run tanks, air defences and the like. Since Air defence (as an example) is part of the Iraqi air force responsibility I don't see why KRG would operate its own separate air defences.

Helicopters and engineering/commando teams and lightly armoured infantry however are within the remit of the "carabinery" (which is what would constitute the Peshmarga, and in Iraq such units are called "Federal Police" FP).

some examples of federal police (equivelant of Peshmarga).

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

the KRG receives only the budget of the MOI standard. Therefore there's not enough money in it to run tanks, air defences and the like. Since Air defence (as an example) is part of the Iraqi air force responsibility I don't see why KRG would operate its own separate air defences.

You may not see why, but we certainly do. As far as I'm aware the KRG has plans to buy both helicopters and tanks.

Helicopters and engineering/commando teams and lightly armoured infantry however are within the remit of the "carabinery" (which is what would constitute the Peshmarga, and in Iraq such units are called "Federal Police" FP).

As far as I'm aware the two Federal police units in the KRG are not canceled as Maliki can't use the same reason he used for the army divisions since police are commonly forced out of local people. The peshmerga can't be compared to federal police units, becuase they are supposed to guard the KRG against outside threat and therefore more comparable to an army/border guard force.

some examples of federal police (equivelant of Peshmarga).

Yeah the peshmerga has got Humvees but not those colours, they got green camouflage and some grey camouflage.

I can post some pics of peshmerga if you want.

[sheytanElKebir]

Kurd123
the border guards in Iraq are part of the ministry of interior.
The "federal police" by its very name is not region based as would the normal police be, but are organised in rapid reaction divisions in a "national" not regional basis (in effect they are army infantry divisions but with a primarily internal security focus, but also trained to be backup divisions for the army in external conflicts). The peshmarga is a mix of border guard and federal police, it is not equivalent of the army.

If "Kurdish" federal police divisions are incorporated into the Iraqi moi, then they can no longer be racially segregated (or even necessarily based inside Kurdistan, as such divisions are constantly rotated from region to region to reduce local cronyism from taking root).

The fp and border guards are all part of the ministry of interior. Krg has its own separate budget for this from iraq, therefore there is no basis on which to double charge Iraq on yet another item!

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

Kurd123
the border guards in Iraq are part of the ministry of interior.
The "federal police" by its very name is not region based as would the normal police be, but are organised in rapid reaction divisions in a "national" not regional basis (in effect they are army infantry divisions but with a primarily internal security focus, but also trained to be backup divisions for the army in external conflicts). The peshmarga is a mix of border guard and federal police, it is not equivalent of the army.

If "Kurdish" federal police divisions are incorporated into the Iraqi moi, then they can no longer be racially segregated (or even necessarily based inside Kurdistan, as such divisions are constantly rotated from region to region to reduce local cronyism from taking root).

The fp and border guards are all part of the ministry of interior. Krg has its own separate budget for this from iraq, therefore there is no basis on which to double charge Iraq on yet another item!

There are currently 200,000 regular peshmerga and the KRG has set aside:-

-70,000 for a regular army
-30,000 for the federal police (not canceled as far as I know)
-was supposed to transfer 30,000 into the 15th and 16th divisions but that's canceled as far as I know.

The KRG sais it has not received the budget, have you got any source to counter that?

Let's be honest you just want to centralize everything, I don't see why police in the KRG should be people from Baghdad or basrah when the locals speak Kurdish... I partly agree on the army divisions but to say that the police who serve the people should not be Kurds is just ridiculous.

[sheytanElKebir]

Federal police is not regular police. It's fine for regular police to be "locals" but the federal police is something completely different.

Krg has not received defence money. They certainly do have money for the "interior ministry" part though.

I do not want to centralise or anything, all I want is to keep iraqs money for Iraq. I don't want to pay for krgs army, anid I have no problem with whatever they decide to do with their own army as long as Iraq is not paying!

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

Federal police is not regular police. It's fine for regular police to be "locals" but the federal police is something completely different.

Krg has not received defence money. They certainly do have money for the "interior ministry" part though.

I do not want to centralise or anything, all I want is to keep iraqs money for Iraq. I don't want to pay for krgs army, anid I have no problem with whatever they decide to do with their own army as long as Iraq is not paying!

Ok agreed, but as long as the KRG does not contribute to the Iraqi army founds.

P.S: Looks like they killed your thread.

I know the reason for this dispute though:

The KRG is afraid of any Iraqi backlash when Iraqi army gets stronger, and Baghdad is afraid of a KRG backlash. Like I said, no trust and to be honest Baghdad and Erbil act as separate countries, and the only thing keeping us together is the oil.

[kurd123]

By the way, the Peshmerga are not part of the KRG ministery of interior, rather its under the ministry of peshmerga which is basically an equivalent of ministry of defense.

These forces in the KRG are part of the ministry of interior:-

Zeravani forces - (After doing some research I found that this force is an equivalent of the Iraqi federal police, and yes your right their more like a light infantry force.

Waisi: We have contact with the central government through the KRG Ministry of Interior. The central government has a force similar to the Zeravani, called the Federal Police, which aids the security and police forces, and belong to the Iraqi Ministry of Interior. The Iraqi government and American military experts benefited from the Peshmarga's experience when establishing the Federal Police forces. We hope to have the same financing the Federal Police has.

Waisi: the Federal Police have been assigned a special budget by the central government of which Kurdistan Region has no share. Brigade 6 -- consisting of Zeravani and defense forces -- is to be established following a 2008 agreement between the KRG, the Iraqi Interior Ministry and U.S. forces. The U.S. forces provided some military supplies, and some more are on their way, but the Iraqi government suspended this until the minister of interior is assigned. In fact, this force will belong to KRG Ministry of Interior and it will have more power in terms of training, military support, salary and rights, like the Federal Police forces.

-Asaish (A intelligence force)

Thing is people commonly label all of these different groups 'peshmerga' while that's not wrong becuase peshmerga doesn't even mean soldier, they do not differentiate between the army and the other groups.

[IraqiPlan_et]

Iraq will buy 36 US F-16 Fighters, Maliki
7/30/2011


BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraqi premier Nouri al-Maliki announced today the 36 fighters deal with USA.

In a press conference, following the parliamentary meeting of today, he declared that he signed a contract to develop Iraqi Air Force by buying 36 F16 fighters.

This announcement denotes that Iraq has doubled the fighters deal from 18 to 36 planes, which shall be financed from the increasing oil revenues.

[sheytanElKebir]

we shall see...

Iraq has been announcing such orders since about 2007 I believe. Also originally for 36 F16s, followed by reduction to 24 aircraft in 2008, then down to 18 aircraft a year later... then in Early 2011 cancelled it altogether. Now back up to 36 aircraft

anyway the only good thing about these planes is that they are cheap ($35M for airframe, $50M all in price) compared to the competition which would cost double the price. In terms of capability its the worst aircraft being offered to Iraq (compared to the French, British and Russian offers).

[iraqishi3i]

ahaha i hope this time we will actually buy them

[IraqiPlan_et]

Pentagon: Iraqi delegation traveling this month to Washington for the purchase of F16s
02/08/2011

Alsumaria News / Baghdad
Revealed the U.S. Department of Defense, Tuesday, that a delegation from Iraq will travel to Washington this month to negotiate a deal on F16 aircraft which had already announced its intention to Iraq purchased from the United States.

A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. David Lapan, said in a statement received "Alsumaria News", a copy of it, that "Iraq has asked to buy 36 aircraft type F16 from the United States of America, will come a delegation from the Iraqi side in August of this to push the negotiations forward on 18 aircraft are Wali installment of the deal. "

Added during the "The two sides are still at the stage of the negotiations has not been a formal agreement on the deal, if concluded that the process of delivery and the training of pilots that could take years."

The coalition of state law, led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, said at the end of last July, that the abuses at Iraq's borders can not be prevented except by using fighter aircraft F16, saying at the same time that Iraq's sovereignty and prestige in the region would not be complete without the presence of these aircraft, as noted that al-Maliki announced a doubling of the value of a purchase is an important initiative and the joyous news to the Iraqis.

Previously, he announced, in the 30 of July, about double the value of a purchase of fighter aircraft F16, indicating that the value of the contract will double to buy 36 aircraft instead of 18 aircraft, also noted that the value of purchase of these aircraft will be financed from the surplus of imports of Iraqi oil after the rise in prices globally.

And postponed the Iraqi government, in 14 of last February, held aircraft F16 and refer the amount allocated to it to support the ration card, while the committee said in parliament that the assignment of $ 900 million was allocated for the purchase of aircraft in support of the ration card, came because of the budget deficit.

The Ministry of Interior, in the 25 of July, that Washington insists on completing the plane deal, and while said that the delay in completing the deal was not deliberate, attributed the reasons for the delay to the high prices and lack of appointment of a Minister of the Interior so far.

He accused the Sadrist movement, on 22 April, the United States to block processing of the Iraqi army with weapons capable of confronting al Qaeda and insurgents, as pointed out decades arms and signed with Serbia, Croatia and Romania, confirmed that he will be the conclusion of further contracts for supply Iraq with aircraft and weapons specialist after deduction of ministries security.

The Iraqi army currently consists of 14 Army divisions, mostly infantry divisions estimated many of its personnel by more than 300 thousand soldiers, has the army, about 170 Russian tanks and Hungarian-made, most of them aid from NATO to the Iraqi government, as well as a number of helicopters, the Russian and American-made, and a number of naval vessels in the port of Umm Qasr to protect the export of Iraqi oil.

Already confirmed that U.S. military officials in Iraq several times that the Iraqi forces can maintain security internally, but can not protect the airspace and territorial waters and borders, the same opinion of political leaders and the Iraqi military.

And F16 aircraft produced by General Dynamics set and exported to about twenty countries, is the most widely used fighter in the world.

[IraqiPlan_et]

U.S. military reveals its quest to create a sophisticated security system in Iraq


Alsumaria News / Baghdad
Revealed the U.S. military, Wednesday, for his quest to create a sophisticated security system, air to Iraq to repulse any external threats facing this country, as pointed to the need for the approval of the Iraqi government to achieve this system, since its creation and training needs for a long time.

A military spokesman in Iraq Jeffrey Buchanan in an interview for "Alsumaria News," that his forces "working with Iraqi partners to develop a security system air integrated," noting that this system "requires the radar to identify and communications and ground-based missile-equipped and combat aircraft to defeat these external threats ".

The Buchanan that "all these systems are complex and must take time after the end of the year 2011 in the training and construction," noting that "the decision on this would be a follower of the Iraqi government at the end of the day the fact that its implementation requires a long time."

The U.S. Department of Defense Pentagon revealed, on Tuesday (08/02/2011) that a delegation from Iraq will travel to Washington this month to negotiate a deal on F16 aircraft, which Iraq had previously declared his intention to purchase from the United States.

Previously, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, in the 30 of July, about double the value of the contract for the purchase fighter aircraft F16, indicating that the value of the contract will double to buy 36 aircraft instead of 18 aircraft, also pointed out that the value of the purchase of these aircraft will be financed from the surplus of imports of Iraqi oil after the rise in world prices.

The coalition of state law, led by al-Maliki, the end of last July, that the abuses at Iraq's borders can not be prevented except by using fighter aircraft F16, saying at the same time that Iraq's sovereignty and prestige in the region would not be complete without the presence of these aircraft, as pointed out that the Declaration of Maliki double the value of the purchase contract is an important initiative and the joyous news to the Iraqis.

And postponed the Iraqi government, in 14 of last February, held aircraft F16 and refer the amount allocated to it to support the ration card, while the committee said in parliament that the assignment of $ 900 million was allocated for the purchase of aircraft in support of the ration card, came because of the budget deficit.

He accused the Sadrist movement, on 22 April, the United States to block processing of the Iraqi army with weapons capable of confronting al Qaeda and insurgents, as pointed out decades arms and signed with Serbia, Croatia and Romania, confirmed that he will be the conclusion of further contracts for supply Iraq with aircraft and weapons specialist after deduction of ministries security.

Iraq has signed and the United States, in 2008, the Framework Agreement strategy to support the ministries and agencies of the Iraqi transition from the strategic partnership with the Republic of Iraq to the areas of economic, diplomatic, cultural and security, based on the Strategic Framework Agreement and to reduce the number of reconstruction teams in the provinces, as well as provide an important sustainable for the rule of law, including police development program and the completion of the coordination and supervision and the report of the Fund of Iraq relief and reconstruction.

Under the security agreement signed between Baghdad and Washington on the end of November of 2008 that it should withdraw all U.S. forces from all territories and waters and airspace of Iraq no later than December 31 of 2011 now, and had withdrawn U.S. combat forces under the Convention of the Cities and villages and towns in Iraq June 30, 2009.

[IraqiPlan_et]

If I may ask, why isn't this thread in the "Iraq" section?

[sheytanElKebir]

in my view if Iraq does end up buying the f16, they will need the following to "complete" the airf force:

3x squadrons of F16 (54 aircraft) - $3Bn
2x squadrons of Rafale /SU35 for strike (36 aircraft) - $3Bn
2x squadrons of Typhoon as interceptor (36 aircraft) - $4Bn
3x squadrons of T50/A50 as "air patrol" fighter and low end strike. (54 aircraft) - $2Bn

that would give Iraq a good defensive air force (180 modern combat aircraft / fly up to 500 sorties a day in emergency) without costing too much money ($12Bn in total). They could split the purchase over 4 years and spend about $3Bn every year on airforce purchases.

by 2016, when they have all these assets in service, they could go and contract for 5th generation fighters like F35 or PAK-FA for delivery after 2020, ensuring Iraq has an air force competitive with its neighbours.

Of course the companies are keen on selling weapons to Iraq at a good price because they need to scare their "cash cows" (Saudi/Kuwait/UAE/Qatar) into upgrading their weapons.
(a trend we can already see with the saudi purchase of Leopard 2 A7 tanks just after Iraq bought Abrams tanks)