SACRAMENTO - Sacramento Entertainment and Sports Complex (18,594)

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by soup or man

Move them to San Diego.

Can't move to a city with no suitable arena or any plans, intention or financing to build one.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

Can't move to a city with no suitable arena or any plans, intention or financing to build one.

We know.

But that's out most outsiders feel. Like San Diego HAS to have a team....

[pesto]

Originally Posted by JJG

We know.

But that's out most outsiders feel. Like San Diego HAS to have a team....

This is the great tension: the big money investors and risk takers control the teams, but only in a few cases can they afford to lose money indefinitely. You try to resolve this by moving to the area with the most fans (attendance plus media).

Analogous to a small shop which is failing in one location moving to another a few blocks or a mile away: good for some, bad for others. But it really should be the owners call where to put his time and money.

I guess the real complications come when the city (trying to keep fans happy) and NBA (looking for cartel profits) step in...

[pesto]

Well, "As the Ball Spins" gets more interesting as a former Councilmember (acting as a dummy?) files a document request with respect to Anaheim's communications with the Maloofs. This presumably counters the request the Maloofs made for Sactown internal documents.

The theory is that getting more information will help the parties work together to build a stadium. This is sort of like saying that my wife finding out more about my affairs is going to help save our marriage.

And speaking of marriages, KJ and the Maloofs are now kissing and making up (or at least acknowledging that they should talk). KJ says they will talk again soon, but George kind of deflates the whole thing a bit, adding that talking by phone is good enough.

[pesto]

Oh, well, even if nobody is reading, maybe this gives me some psychic relief.

The latest is that everybody wants to take one more shot at working out an agreement. Is it just me, or is this just a transparent effort by the Maloofs (with city cooperation?) to get one more year of money out of season ticketholders before the ax does its work and they're off to Anaheim, Seattle, LV, KC, Omaha, etc.?

The last proposal was bordering on economic insanity for the city (selling off future parking revenues for a payment now; this is in effect a loan at an enormous interest rate, a way of avoiding usury laws and/or public outrage). And now they need to come up with more money for the Kings, which includes HUGE increases in ticket prices and aggressive assumptions on broadcast revenue? How does taking this much risk and another year on the edge help anybody?

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and everything will be beautiful.

[will101]

Originally Posted by pesto

Oh, well, even if nobody is reading, maybe this gives me some psychic relief.

The latest is that everybody wants to take one more shot at working out an agreement. Is it just me, or is this just a transparent effort by the Maloofs (with city cooperation?) to get one more year of money out of season ticketholders before the ax does its work and they're off to Anaheim, Seattle, LV, KC, Omaha, etc.?

The last proposal was bordering on economic insanity for the city (selling off future parking revenues for a payment now; this is in effect a loan at an enormous interest rate, a way of avoiding usury laws and/or public outrage). And now they need to come up with more money for the Kings, which includes HUGE increases in ticket prices and aggressive assumptions on broadcast revenue? How does taking this much risk and another year on the edge help anybody?

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and everything will be beautiful.

The only flaw that I find here, is in the pessimistic possibility of squeezing the Sacramento ticket holder for another year. What would be the motive? And how would they come out ahead staying in Sacramento for just one year, as opposed to moving to Anaheim now? They are going to face a bit of an uphill battle carving out a fanbase down there, even if they aggressively market themselves in Orange, San Diego and Riverside counties.

[pesto]

For sure the cleanest solution is to get to Anaheim and end the misery. I'm assuming that that is impossibl, perhaps due to NBA rules or word from Stern not to do it or perhaps excessive cost of lease-breaking or other logistics. But I don't really know.

Again, assuming that there really is no grounds for making a deal that works.

[dfwabel]

Originally Posted by pesto

For sure the cleanest solution is to get to Anaheim and end the misery. I'm assuming that that is impossibl, perhaps due to NBA rules or word from Stern not to do it or perhaps excessive cost of lease-breaking or other logistics. But I don't really know.

Again, assuming that there really is no grounds for making a deal that works.

There is not lease as the Maloofs own Power Balance Pavilion. However, when the Maloofs bought the Kings, they received a loan by the city of Sacramento which they have not yet repaid; about $77M. In 2011, the county appeals board last week reduced the valuation of the arena, the adjacent building, the land and fixtures by $12 million. The arena and practice court now are assessed at $35 million, and the total site at $51 million.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by dfwabel

There is not lease as the Maloofs own Power Balance Pavilion. However, when the Maloofs bought the Kings, they received a loan by the city of Sacramento which they have not yet repaid; about $77M. In 2011, the county appeals board last week reduced the valuation of the arena, the adjacent building, the land and fixtures by $12 million. The arena and practice court now are assessed at $35 million, and the total site at $51 million.

Thanks; I remember this now. I think last year Samueli was offerring to loan them funds to pay off the loan.

[pesto]

Well, the arena deal is “dead” again. But we’re not sure if we’re in the middle of the zombie movie or in the last 2 minutes. Remember that it doesn’t bother zombies to be “dead”; they're like that all the time. To be REALLY dead he has to be beheaded, burned to a crisp and for insurance, sprinkled with holy water, exposed to sunlight and have a stake through his heart. Scattered to the wind. 5 miles deep in the ocean.

My guess is the deal was already dead two weeks ago, but that KJ was getting heat from a fairly successful Maloof claim that he had killed the deal by refusing to negotiate further. This pressured KJ to go through the motions one more time although everyone knew the outcome.

Of course, what is really meant by “dead” is that the Maloof’s aren’t putting in money or pawning their remaining assets; this is actually a step forward because everyone now admits the original deal had money missing. Now its time for Sactown or AEG to put some in, which they certainly could do if they don't mind taxing and cutting here and there.

Getting an alternative buyer seems an idle discussion since there are a number of cities that would be happy to take the Kings as is. But I wonder if Seattle or KC makes much sense given the attendance at their baseball teams. Could be wholly unrelated to how a hoops team would do.

[SJAnfield]

The deal is "dead" as long as the Maloofs are still considered a partner in the deal. The mayor and city are still committed to trying to get the complex built, but they are looking for other partners instead. KJ made it clear the city was not going to deal with the Maloofs any further after they backed out of their word. Unless they uphold the tearm sheet previously agreed to, there will be no further bending to the idiot sons. And he made it clear the city would have no part in renovating Arco Arena.

Right now they are looking for AEG or another wealthy investor to step in and fill the gap. The arena will be needed for the Reno-Tahoe Olympic bid and the mayor and other city officials have said they are looking for other professional franchises to call Sacramento home that are not called the Kings. They are also holding out hope Stearn and the other NBA owners will force the Maloofs to sell to a local owner or one who will look at the sweetheart deal the city offered and jump all over it. Its starting to appear the Maloofs might not have the money they claimed or the teams best interest at heart.

This saga is far from over and I think its going to get a whole lot more interesting.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by SJAnfield

The deal is "dead" as long as the Maloofs are still considered a partner in the deal. The mayor and city are still committed to trying to get the complex built, but they are looking for other partners instead. KJ made it clear the city was not going to deal with the Maloofs any further after they backed out of their word. Unless they uphold the tearm sheet previously agreed to, there will be no further bending to the idiot sons. And he made it clear the city would have no part in renovating Arco Arena.

Right now they are looking for AEG or another wealthy investor to step in and fill the gap. The arena will be needed for the Reno-Tahoe Olympic bid and the mayor and other city officials have said they are looking for other professional franchises to call Sacramento home that are not called the Kings. They are also holding out hope Stearn and the other NBA owners will force the Maloofs to sell to a local owner or one who will look at the sweetheart deal the city offered and jump all over it. Its starting to appear the Maloofs might not have the money they claimed or the teams best interest at heart.

This saga is far from over and I think its going to get a whole lot more interesting.

Probably will be interesting, but KJ seems to have make a more of a pretense of further negotiations, with another quick fade to black. Looks more like a PR show.

Now Stern is explicitly saying that Sactown was offerred a great deal from AEG, the NBA and the Kings and is making a mistake walking away from it. This is probably true IF the Kings will step up and put in some serious taxes to fund the stadium rather than mortgaging the parking revenues. The team is still keep-able but the locals need to pony up real money instead of calling the Maloofs names.

[will101]

It's becoming obvious that every time the Maloofs are asked to contribute something, the whole process comes to a screeching halt. I bet they declare bankruptcy to get out of repaying the loan to the city.

[SJAnfield]

Originally Posted by pesto

Probably will be interesting, but KJ seems to have make a more of a pretense of further negotiations, with another quick fade to black. Looks more like a PR show.

Now Stern is explicitly saying that Sactown was offerred a great deal from AEG, the NBA and the Kings and is making a mistake walking away from it. This is probably true IF the Kings will step up and put in some serious taxes to fund the stadium rather than mortgaging the parking revenues. The team is still keep-able but the locals need to pony up real money instead of calling the Maloofs names.

KJ is simply the lead negotiator for a city and fan base that is tired of the current ownership and decades of broken promises. I honestly think the relationship has soured so badly that a deal will probably be un-salvageable so long as the Maloofs are owners of the Kings. Unless they take the deal on the table, as previously agreed upon, KJ and Sactown say no thanks and open the door for Anaheim, Seattle or somewhere else.

The city and AEG are already paying the bulk of the pricetag. The Maloofs were to pay somewhere around 20-33% or even less (can't remember all the details). What more taxes does Sacramento need to dish out? If the Maloofs want a piece of the pie, they need to contribute. The deal Sacramento put forth was praised by owners around the league. Many were quoted as being jelous and wished their municipalities had given them similar deals. I think this is a situation in which the Maloofs want something they can't afford. In the past they were able to hold the city hostage by threatening to move. This time Sacramento is telling them to take their ball and go play elsewhwere.

[pesto]

I'm not takind sides or emotionally involved here either way. But Stern's comments are pretty frank for someone who was seen as blocking the Maloofs from leaving last year.

It's nothing personal; there is just one overriding fact: no one thinks there is enough advantage to himself to motivate him to put more money in. This is the classic problem with small-town markets and with failed businesses in general. The revenue sources aren't there.

It will be interesting to see if a better deal can come out of Seattle or KC (whose baseaball teams are right at the bottom of MLB attendance) or Anaheim (which has to compete against the Lakers and Clips). Not obvious that there is a clear winner in those places either.

[pesto]

RIP: per various media, AEG has announced that it has no interest in pursuing a stadium deal without the Kings. This appears to kill this proposal.

KJ is now looking at alternatives, including an entertainment district, or a stadium for the A's or Raiders (with a big hug and kiss from Jean Quan, for all his help). You will recall that the "money" he has to spend is in fact to be effectively borrowed by selling off the future stream of parking revenues, so we now have a mayor struggling to find projects that no one has even thought about so as to spend money they can only get at a very high effective cost.

Anaheim seems to be the winner here since the Maloofs can now say there are no live plans for an improved arena in Sactown. I am assuming that no one in Seattle is going to build an arena unless he owns the team, and it looks like the Maloofs aren't selling.

[will101]

Originally Posted by pesto

I am assuming that no one in Seattle is going to build an arena unless he owns the team, and it looks like the Maloofs aren't selling.

Why would they sell? Milking the Orange County and San Diego markets will give them 3-4 times the income they had in Sacramento. It's a sad day for the Central Valley, but it just shows how much we are at the mercy of corrupt ownership.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by will101

Why would they sell? Milking the Orange County and San Diego markets will give them 3-4 times the income they had in Sacramento. It's a sad day for the Central Valley, but it just shows how much we are at the mercy of corrupt ownership.

If you're talking about the "leagues" (better, "cartels"), I agree. But if you're talking about the owners who want to move, you're talking about the victims.

My uncle had an ice cream store on a major street in SF; he went broke. He started a new store on another street a couple of miles away and did better. Per the sports leagues, this is unfair competition for the ice cream dealers who are charging twice as much on the popular street. For my uncle it was surviving as a competitive business and raising his family. For the economy, it was a lot more people enjoying ice cream at a lower price.

[will101]

"Cartels". I like that. But I will never believe that the owners that moved the Sonics to Oklahoma, after lying about it several times over, are anything resembling victims.

[seyedelyad]

move the Kings to Vancouver....