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Old September 5th, 2016, 05:48 PM   #2001
MONUMENTA
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But that fascination, the need to demonstrate the modernity of the German architecture and the building itself and avoid confusion originality.

The facade, how some interior courtyards were too irregular, wonderful, but not be justified to reconstruction.

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Old September 5th, 2016, 05:49 PM   #2002
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I really love the ancient architecture, specially the Baroque and the German´s barroque and the wonderful palaces of Potsdam, Stuttgart, Webestein, Wurzburg and Muenster, and I annoys more the use of reinforced concrete in this type of reconstruction, where the facade is rebuilt so originality, in solid brick, and even more when the interiors are reconstructed
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Old September 7th, 2016, 07:58 AM   #2003
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Finally, some new impressions by dubaibobby:

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Bilder von heute und von mir
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Old September 7th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #2004
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I love how Americans can dare to relate a Neoclassical building with Versailles and get away with it.

Instead of complaining about the fourth facade, I would complain about the fact that not a single interior will be rebuilt. The debate about the modern facade has no point, since it's already done.
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Old September 7th, 2016, 12:15 PM   #2005
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Yes after all the wonderful work that has gone into carefully crafting those beautiful sculpted facades it will be disappointing not to find a single interior restored in the same manner. There is always the hope that one day sufficient funding and will power may yet prevail in some way and bring at least a few of the finest rooms back, the fact that several of the major internal spaces have been restored to the same dimensions to at least make this possible is encouraging.

The difficult part, in the event of those conditions being met in recreating any lost interiors, will be what is done with the spaces in the meantime. Presumably most of them will have already been allocated a specific purpose housing part of a museum collection or other functions that would not be served if they were to be recreated in full Baroque splendour, as the room would then become a museum-piece in itself. A major internal reorganisation of the Humboldt Forum would be necessary at a later date to allow for this if valuable exhibition space were to be compromised (depending on the type of exhibition of course, as we all know the Louvre works beautifully in this respect, but present day curators would more likely prefer a neutral modernist space).

My dream scenario would be a group or whole sequence of the most important interiors restored to showcase the vision and artistry of the original palace (Rittersaal, Elisabethsaal, Weisersaal, Grosse Bildergalerie, Gigantentreppe, etc). It can be done, I've seen the palaces near St Petersburg where interiors were convincingly restored from next to nothing. It would alas cost millions so unlikely for the foreseeable future. Will a future generation rise to the occasion? I really hope so........
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Old September 7th, 2016, 03:52 PM   #2006
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I wouldn't write off reconstruction of any of the original interiors entirely. At the Alexander Palace in Russia, plans for restoration evolved in fits and starts. The exterior of the palace and formal parade rooms were restored ca 2005-2010. At the time, plans to restore Nicholas & Alexandra's rooms in the East Wing (whose interiors were torn out after WWII) were such a bone of contention that it looked like they wouldn't be restored at all. I.E., Do we restore them to Quarenghi's original design, or leave them as is? There was so little discussion of restoring them to their 1917 appearance that this option seemed out of the question.

Well, a few years ago a number of color photographs of the palace interiors taken a few weeks after the Imperial Family's departure for Tobolsk turned up at an auction in Vienna. The photos were bought and given to the group in charge of the palace's restoration. And all of a sudden, it was decided to restore the rooms of the first floor of the East Wing to the state they were in when Nicholas & Alexandra occupied them. The Alexander Palace Museum was closed to the public in 2015 to accommodate the work, and restoration is currently underway on the Imperial Bedroom, Alexandra's Mauve Boudoir, the Palisander Drawing Room, the Maple Room, and Alexandra's Formal Reception Room. The work is expected to be complete in August 2017, in time for the 100th anniversary of the Imperial Family's forced departure from the palace.
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Old September 7th, 2016, 04:26 PM   #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vankatalaan View Post
I love how Americans can dare to relate a Neoclassical building with Versailles and get away with it.

.
Hmmm. Racist. I love how some are unable to identify tongue-in-check humor and get rude about it.
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Old September 8th, 2016, 05:23 AM   #2008
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Quote:
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Some more impressions in detail:
DSC_4077.jpg by Frank Burchert, on Flickr
There is justice in this world!!!
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Old September 8th, 2016, 12:18 PM   #2009
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If they rebuilt the Amber room in Tsarkoye Selo in St. Petersburg I would think it can be done and hope it is. However more than 50% of the damaged rooms of that palace are yet to be restored due to astronomical costs,

For instance, the Royal chapel has been ready to restore since 2005 and no progress yet, despite the room as said before is a museum per se.

I agree that once they allocate purposes for the Humboldt Forum rooms, any interiors will ever further than completion than at this stage.
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Old September 8th, 2016, 02:59 PM   #2010
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I visited the Catherine Palace at Tsarskoye Selo in 2001 and asked our Russian guide what was happening with the Royal chapel (I really wanted to see inside having seen those amazing gilded domes piercing the roofline of the palace). She replied that the plan was to have it finished for the 300th anniversary of the city in 2003, but sadly this didn't happen as it has remained mothballed ever since. However I notice the following report that gives hope it may finally be finished in the near future:-
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/Imperial...illion-rubles/

I assume all energy went instead into getting the Amber Room finished for the 300th anniversary; when I visited it was still only two-thirds complete, but the skill that was going into those recreated interiors was astounding and shows what can be done where a complete loss has occurred but sufficient documentary and photographic evidence remains, as is the case with the interiors of the Berlin Stadtschloss.

Of course the St Petersburg restorers had the major advantage of the remains of their palaces being respected after the war, with all surviving fragments retained to guide the restorers hand even if too meagre to reuse. By contrast numerous important remains of the Stadtchloss interiors were criminally blown up along with the rest of the building, thus obliterating all sorts of salvageable remnants of that glorious Baroque décor and complicating any future restorers task even further. However the extent of the devastation at the Russian palaces was such that many interiors had simply gone without trace and their subsequent triumphant resurrection an encouraging sign of what can be done, and hopefully one day will be in Berlin....
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Old September 8th, 2016, 03:39 PM   #2011
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Look great
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Old September 8th, 2016, 06:15 PM   #2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudgis View Post
I visited the Catherine Palace at Tsarskoye Selo in 2001 and asked our Russian guide what was happening with the Royal chapel (I really wanted to see inside having seen those amazing gilded domes piercing the roofline of the palace). She replied that the plan was to have it finished for the 300th anniversary of the city in 2003, but sadly this didn't happen as it has remained mothballed ever since. However I notice the following report that gives hope it may finally be finished in the near future:-
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/Imperial...illion-rubles/

I assume all energy went instead into getting the Amber Room finished for the 300th anniversary; when I visited it was still only two-thirds complete, but the skill that was going into those recreated interiors was astounding and shows what can be done where a complete loss has occurred but sufficient documentary and photographic evidence remains, as is the case with the interiors of the Berlin Stadtschloss.

Of course the St Petersburg restorers had the major advantage of the remains of their palaces being respected after the war, with all surviving fragments retained to guide the restorers hand even if too meagre to reuse. By contrast numerous important remains of the Stadtchloss interiors were criminally blown up along with the rest of the building, thus obliterating all sorts of salvageable remnants of that glorious Baroque décor and complicating any future restorers task even further. However the extent of the devastation at the Russian palaces was such that many interiors had simply gone without trace and their subsequent triumphant resurrection an encouraging sign of what can be done, and hopefully one day will be in Berlin....
Any future reversal of what the space is currently purposed for will depend heavily on the success of the Humboldt Forum. If the museums and multi purpose spaces generate only low or moderate utilization, there could be a welcomed discussion to restore some of the original interiors to boost interest/usage. But if the current interior intent is a roaring success, it will likely be impossible to convince the city and donors to make any changes. So, while I don't like being negative or wishing ill, I hope the Humboldt Forum finds it necessary to rethink the interior space.
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Old September 8th, 2016, 07:16 PM   #2013
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Quote:
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I love how Americans can dare to relate a Neoclassical building with Versailles and get away with it.

I love how morons can dare to mock at Americans while being quite fascinated by their culture/way of life and get away with it.
One has to know that since Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson it has become popular to refer to Versailles.
France was the first country to recognize the United States of America as a nation;the decision was taken in Versailles where the war of independance was supported and where the peace treaty with England was signed in 1783.
1.5 million Americans visit annually!
...How many Dutch??..
Also,i have no problem at all with the modern facade:it is very honest and smart in order to connect past with present.
Great German attitude.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 02:55 AM   #2014
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I'm not Dutch. I live in the Netherlands. And my comment was about the fact that Versailles is the archetype of a French Baroque palace. And the Supreme Court has nothing to do with it.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 11:27 AM   #2015
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...Seems like you find it hard to understand!..
Versailles is so popular in the US that the name became idiomatic.
I speak fluent french and i garanty you French do the same:visiting a stately contemporary house they say admiringly:oh!!c'est magnifique!c'est Versailles!!
Try to fight your prejudices!
Now,let's get back on topic!
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Old September 11th, 2016, 01:01 PM   #2016
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BERLIN | City Palace Reconstruction (Stadtschloss) - "Humboldt-Forum" | U/C

French people use it in a different context, as an example of magnificence, not as a counterpart for modern architecture. I also speak fluent French. In any case this debate is nonsense because you're not getting my point and trying to convince me about something by moving the core of the question to wherever you can stand for it. And I was being sarcastic. In Europe there is also people who have no clue about architectural styles.

End of the off topic.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 01:07 PM   #2017
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This is turning out to be much much better than i have ever thought it could. I really love the reconstruction of this palace.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 01:48 AM   #2018
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Oooppps! Things are not so happy on the thread since I last visited....... handbags at dawn...

Anyway, things looking good on the rebuild, though I am still very unsure about the {terrible looking} East facade.


Liebe Berlin.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 02:09 AM   #2019
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Out of curiosity

Now it is also working on building interiors, rooms?
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Old September 12th, 2016, 02:10 AM   #2020
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Do rebuilding the facades are specialized in old masonry or not?

Also they are working in contemporary parts?

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baroque fassade, berlin, construction field, heart of the city, humboldt lab dahlem, lustgarten, museum island, prussia, reconstruction, stadtschloss, stella

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