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Old June 26th, 2017, 03:39 AM   #2321
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Many times thanks for Your updates Tiaren!
Also thanks for the "behind the contractors curtain" pictures up the scaffolding!
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Old June 27th, 2017, 03:49 AM   #2322
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Civilisation reasserts itself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Image of the facade from Berliner Zeitung:


http://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte...choenste-seite

I really like the color they chose in the end. It is in between a warm beige and a very light yellow. It looks really fresh and radiant, especially in the evening sun. The facades then exude a beautiful, warm glow.

Finding the right color was true detective work. In a crate in Charlottenburg Palace's basement they found some fragments of the facade of the City Palace. Through chemical analysis they could recompose the original color.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #2323
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The proportions of the agora are mighty impressive. O:


(Source: http://www.humboldtforum.com/de-DE/s...ke-portal-auf/)

The height of the room is 33m, that's gothic cathedral tier.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:35 PM   #2324
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This will be another amazing world-class venue for Berlin's vibrant cultural scene, great!
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Old June 30th, 2017, 12:13 AM   #2325
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Originally, where was the door of the agora in the old palace? I see that they have used a fragment of the allegorical angel. The only one that is going to be relocated from the ancients?
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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:26 AM   #2326
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Originally, where was the door of the agora in the old palace? I see that they have used a fragment of the allegorical angel. The only one that is going to be relocated from the ancients?
The backside of the Eosanderportal, the big triumphal arch, led into a big courtyard.



Now this courtyard is built-over and the agora, as the main entrance hall and assembly hall, takes its place.

Not just the bust of the Pheme (it is not an angel but a goddess of fame and rumor) but also the upper parts of each capital are original pieces of the old palace.


(by Frank of Stadtbild-Deutschland-Forum)


(by Prof. Ludger Brands)

From afar you hardly notice hat they are original too.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 10:23 AM   #2327
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What an impressive space, a wonderful entrance feature and a great taste of what we'll get with the completed Humboldt Forum, thanks so much for posting these :-)

I am very much sold on this combination of old and new, the proportions of this new room make a great focal point of the triumphal arch of the Eosander portal, whilst replacing the rest of the old courtyard with modern galleries does make sense in not only maximising the amount of gallery space but also perhaps freeing up a few more of the 'original rooms' in the hope that some day one or two interior restorations might be possible.

I welcome the use of more original elements here too giving some continuity with the original palace, very skillfully done with the capitals (not so sure I'd've left the winged goddess in her blackened state as it draws the eye, but then this does at least make her antiquity apparent). Previously the only other area (that I knew of) where any old sculptural elements were reused was the easternmost of the two portal facades on the north side, I wonder if there'll be any more such surprises?

It's also interesting to see the old photo of the Eosander courtyard as it used to be as I'd seen far fewer images of this before. I remember the seeing the large sculptural group in the centre (St George & the Dragon by August Kiss) on my first visit to Berlin years ago in its new location beside the Nicolaikirche, and had little idea of its original context until now.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 11:59 PM   #2328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
The backside of the Eosanderportal, the big triumphal arch, led into a big courtyard.

Now this courtyard is built-over and the agora, as the main entrance hall and assembly hall, takes its place.

Not just the bust of the Pheme (it is not an angel but a goddess of fame and rumor) but also the upper parts of each capital are original pieces of the old palace.
Wonderful, every day I learn something new about this work. I am in love with her. Within its limitations, since it is almost immoral economically speaking, rebuilding the palace as it was before, a building is very rational and respectful of its past. The only drawback I see is perhaps the wastage of the dome and the old chapelland a wink in the form of a yellow glass In the modernist building of the old Palace of the Republic.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 11:31 AM   #2329
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Is there going to be some kind of memorial to the old Palast der Republik?
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 06:58 PM   #2330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioannes_ View Post
...and a wink in the form of a yellow glass In the modernist building of the old Palace of the Republic.
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Is there going to be some kind of memorial to the old Palast der Republik?
Thankfully (at least for now) not. Even if there now stands the shell of the City Palace once again, we will never be able to fully bring back what was unrightfully destroyed for the Palast der Republik and an aufmarsch square.
The annihilation of Berlin's heart and soul will forever be memorial enough.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 09:12 PM   #2331
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Well done. I saw this building first time when they do a groundbreaking until now.

Berlin did an amazing job to recover most the destroy buildings. They keep the original design and they do very creative inside the buildings and it makes the building more interesting.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 12:05 PM   #2332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Thankfully (at least for now) not. Even if there now stands the shell of the City Palace once again, we will never be able to fully bring back what was unrightfully destroyed for the Palast der Republik and an aufmarsch square.
The annihilation of Berlin's heart and soul will forever be memorial enough.
I think a memorial would seem very apt, telling the story of the two palaces and not forgetting what once stood on the site. Just getting rid of all the traces of the DDR and pretending it never existed is not the way.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 01:37 PM   #2333
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Quote:
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I think a memorial would seem very apt, telling the story of the two palaces and not forgetting what once stood on the site. Just getting rid of all the traces of the DDR and pretending it never existed is not the way.
I don't think Germany pretends that DDR never exist. It doesn't mean heritage for that awful and relatively short hostile period of Soviet-backed occupation should be cherished or celebrated. It is the rationale I have to justify replacing the TV tower by some other tower 600m tall, or removing every shackle-and-hammer insignia from public buildings or public areas of apartment complexes, and to remove completely from open spaces (maybe transfer to a museum though destruction and rubble recycling seems more apt) any monument built by Soviets with the exception of war cemeteries.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 02:17 PM   #2334
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I don't think Germany pretends that DDR never exist. It doesn't mean heritage for that awful and relatively short hostile period of Soviet-backed occupation should be cherished or celebrated. It is the rationale I have to justify replacing the TV tower by some other tower 600m tall, or removing every shackle-and-hammer insignia from public buildings or public areas of apartment complexes, and to remove completely from open spaces (maybe transfer to a museum though destruction and rubble recycling seems more apt) any monument built by Soviets with the exception of war cemeteries.

I think the DDR era requires "recognition" most of all from easterners (former east germans, that is). They have a separate Cultural history. They don`t want to feel "erased" and irrelevant to history. For those few from the west who wants to preserve DDR building mass, its also about historicism and keeping the negative as reminder for the future.


I would be ready to understand how some DDR city plans and architecture had to be preserved for a time, until very few are left who identify clearly with their own DDR upbringing. However, todays city planners in Berlin move backwards as they take DDR city plans as frame for further Development. Since no one would consider building high prestige architecture in such environments, what gets build next to and between DDR buildings are "lower echalon" commercialist architecture (so much as to DDR ideology).


This will let it take infinately much longer for Berlin to recover from historical wounds. It is in fact very sad to see for all of us who love Berlin!


I wish all Berliners would cherish the recreation of the great city that was victim to the country`s political circumstances (which must not be the same as full historical reconstruction) in stead of sacrificing the "big and unifying" historicism on the altar of the "small and dividing" historicism.


The former is the organism, the latter is its wound wanting to become a scar. Easterners have full Access to that same "big historicism", however, as proven by the massive effort to reconstruct old towns in other cities and renovate standing pre-war architecture in almost every village in eastern Germany.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #2335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't think Germany pretends that DDR never exist. It doesn't mean heritage for that awful and relatively short hostile period of Soviet-backed occupation should be cherished or celebrated. It is the rationale I have to justify replacing the TV tower by some other tower 600m tall, or removing every shackle-and-hammer insignia from public buildings or public areas of apartment complexes, and to remove completely from open spaces (maybe transfer to a museum though destruction and rubble recycling seems more apt) any monument built by Soviets with the exception of war cemeteries.
I very much support the demolition of the old palace and the construction of the new (old) one. DDR town planning was often terrible and replacing what was built then with better stuff is a good idea in my opinion. However, with certain larger landmark buildings such as the Palast der Republik some form of reminder of the past would seem appropriate. Cities are full of plaques/monuments etc documenting no longer existent structures. "On this site stood such and such." Or maybe a small exhibition inside the new palace? A small monument, a few pictures and information about what the PDR was and how/why it was built.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #2336
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Quote:
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I think the DDR era requires "recognition" most of all from easterners (former east germans, that is). They have a separate Cultural history. They don`t want to feel "erased" and irrelevant to history. For those few from the west who wants to preserve DDR building mass, its also about historicism and keeping the negative as reminder for the future.
They do not have a separate cultural histoy. The difference was communisms/socialism, which is gone.
The PdR was finished 1976 and closed 1990. Barely 14 years in usage.

For all those who talk about "Erasement" of East German history, I'd like to remind that the Staatsrat building right next to the palace is well preserved.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 12:23 PM   #2337
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They do not have a separate cultural histoy. The difference was communisms/socialism, which is gone.
The PdR was finished 1976 and closed 1990. Barely 14 years in usage.

For all those who talk about "Erasement" of East German history, I'd like to remind that the Staatsrat building right next to the palace is well preserved.


Maybe you mean it differently than me, but life under communism/socialism was different than in the west. If culture is "way of life" or has to do with collective mentality, then, culture turned different. Since it spanned 5 decades is part also of "history". Such, they have a "separate Cultural history".
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Old July 4th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #2338
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Well, we do. But people under National Socialist government also experienced a "separate cultural history". That's nothing that should be put under a cheese dome of sentiments, really.

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Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
They do not have a separate cultural histoy. The difference was communisms/socialism, which is gone.
The PdR was finished 1976 and closed 1990. Barely 14 years in usage.

For all those who talk about "Erasement" of East German history, I'd like to remind that the Staatsrat building right next to the palace is well preserved.
Indeed, pretty much all GDR buildings that are valuable reminders are preserved and will remain so.
E.g. the dominant Fernsehturm, the Staatsrat, the Karl-Marx-Allee, parts of the Wall, Café Moskau, Kino International, World Clock, SEZ, Haus des Lehrers, Funkhaus Nalepastraße, Grand Hotel Unter den Linden, Gendarmenmarkt, Nikolaiviertel.

Only very few relevant GDR buildings are sad losses, like the Deutsche Sporthalle and Ahornblatt.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #2339
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Well, we do. But people under National Socialist government also experienced a "separate cultural history". That's nothing that should be put under a cheese dome of sentiments, really.


I agree. All I wanted to say is that it is no harm in trying to understand the mentality of some segments of the population in the former east. I simply find that interesting. The NS era was shared history, thus not "separate" in the same sense - and lasting just a decade, it probably had less lasting impact on mentality.


Allright, I lay it on myself now - the digression into a side topic. I`ll halt!
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Old July 9th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #2340
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it got gorgeous
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