daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments

General Urban Developments Discussions of projects shorter than 100m/300ft. Also, please post all other threads not specified in other Development News subforums here.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 11th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #501
Ludi
✪ Mr. Ludolf ✪
 
Ludi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 15,218
Likes (Received): 34650



Donations

We would be delighted to receive a donation from you towards the building of the Berlin Palace–Humboldt Forum. Your donation will of course be tax-deductible.

Bank account for building donations

Deutsche Bank, account no. 669411100, sort code 100 700 00,

BIC code DEUTDEBBXXX, IBAN DE76 1007 0000 0669 4111 00


More information: http://sbs-humboldtforum.de/en/Donations/
__________________
Pics/ Bilder ©Ludi

soweit nicht anders angegeben außerhalb von den Skybars.

Berlin Projects

Tiaren, Nando_ros, erbse, Chadoh25, mb92 and 4 others liked this post

Last edited by Ludi; December 11th, 2013 at 03:24 AM.
Ludi no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 11th, 2013, 05:52 AM   #502
Tiaren
Registered User
 
Tiaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,702
Likes (Received): 5550

Wow, awesome info film! All the thumbs up I have!!
__________________

Ludi liked this post
Tiaren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 06:15 AM   #503
The Cake On BBQ
Moderatör
 
The Cake On BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: anarres
Posts: 6,433
Likes (Received): 8514

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolbert View Post
Its all about architectual dogmatas, and its very hard to break with tings you get "indoctrinated" with. Its still not possible to make a purely historicist design at university but there students who apply more for historical references like profilated facades. I dont think we will get back to 19th architecture as it wont get cost effective any time soon nor will the majority apply with this sort of architecture, but we are on a good way for a come back of more diverse range of architecture. Still this will take a lot of time, maybee a few generations.

What i can tell you so is that CIAM is over, even the hardest corbist at our university are not teaching city planing by CIAM standarts. Its part of history but not of our future. The future of city planing will hopefully be somewhere between Camillo Sitte and Bauhaus.
If 3D printers keep getting cheaper and better at this rate then it might happen sooner than we expect.
__________________
Angkor What?
The Cake On BBQ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #504
The Cake On BBQ
Moderatör
 
The Cake On BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: anarres
Posts: 6,433
Likes (Received): 8514

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Besides we're talking about nothing less than the main monument of Berlin, Prussia and Imperial Germany here.

There's no way you could build something new there instead of reconstructing it. The commies and their Palast der Republik failed miserably at their attempt, that's why it's already gone.

It's like saying "well, the Mona Lisa just burned - who cares, let's paint something new and interesting instead".
It's the "symbol" of Prussia, so what? It's wrong to fill a building with so much sentiment and meaning. I'm sure most Germans would find such things like national marches, flag-waving and do-it-for-your-country kind of behaviour too nationalistic and outdated. But it's ok to reconstruct a building for such emotional reasons??

Mona Lisa is already one of the most replicated paintings in the history of art. So what's the point of repainting it in which case it burns down? We have to move on, although it doesn't mean you aren't supposed to be inspired by Mona Lisa.

And I wasn't suggesting a modernist building to replace Humboldt Forum like Palast der Republik.
__________________
Angkor What?
The Cake On BBQ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #505
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,280
Likes (Received): 57985

What are you suggesting then? Building something different for the sake of it?

Would you also replace St. Peters in Rome or the Eiffel Tower in Paris with something else, in case someone blows them up (commies gone mad e.g.) - just to "move on"? It doesn't make sense to me.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Ludi, Zaz965 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #506
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,280
Likes (Received): 57985

And no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cake On BBQ View Post
It's wrong to fill a building with so much sentiment and meaning.
It's not. Buildings are the showcase and reflection of a society's culture.

If you can't fill your grandest buildings with sentiment and meaning and make them live and strive, you're probably dead.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Tiaren, Zaz965 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 05:58 PM   #507
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,664
Likes (Received): 2622

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Would you also replace St. Peters in Rome [...] with something else, in case someone blows them up [...]?
I'd replace it with a healthy dose of atheism.
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #508
tesseract
blackhat architect
 
tesseract's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 788
Likes (Received): 1257

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
No, they are not!
I'm pretty sure, it's the same with architects. I highly doubt, the young architect of today, that learned to design and build in a pile of concrete blocks with holes for windows, suddenly has has the hidden ability to design and draw something intricate and beautiful like this, if he suddenly needs to for a project.
i teach artistic drawing for architecture students. our program is rather old fashioned, we put a lot of attention to manual drafting skills. maybe not all, but around 30% of my students can do lot better drawings than what you linked. while i cannot say in general, architecture students are all able to design something so rich in ornaments and facade decoration, some definitely are. the reason they won't do so in real projects is the lack of interest from the client's side, the high expense of good craftsmanship, and the inability of such classic facade design to meet current requirements. e.g. the classic window proportion suggests much higher floors, which is both impractical and inefficient. modern size windows with these classic ornaments would look utterly fake and stupid.

but anyways, if there is very little need on the market for this kind of architecture, don't expect the average architect to be trained for it.
tesseract no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #509
Ludi
✪ Mr. Ludolf ✪
 
Ludi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 15,218
Likes (Received): 34650

first damage/ first bombs hit the old castle...



Nice video-documentation about the old castle.

__________________
Pics/ Bilder ©Ludi

soweit nicht anders angegeben außerhalb von den Skybars.

Berlin Projects

erbse, mb92, Zaz965 liked this post
Ludi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 08:36 PM   #510
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,280
Likes (Received): 57985

^ Great ones! Old St. Petri for sure is a loss too, one of the most intriguing Neogothic church designs - based on the oldest church of Berlin. I'd love to see a resemblance of it coming back, similar to what Kollhoff designed.

That's the rather well-preserved ruin in 1951, before blown up in 1964 by the commies:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...che,_Ruine.jpg

Kollhoffs idea:

http://www.achimbodewig.de/blog/2009/07/05/pro-petri


The Cake On BBQ and tesseract: You should watch posted above carefully.

The seeds of the past are the fruits of the future.
- Alexander von Humboldt
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

mb92, Ludi, Chadoh25, Zaz965 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #511
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,664
Likes (Received): 2622

I'm on the fence about the city palace, but as far as churches are concerned I say the fewer the better.
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #512
Autostädter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dortmund
Posts: 1,170
Likes (Received): 994

The building by Kollhoff reminds me of the empty framework that resembles another lost church in Berlin (can't remember the name). Just makes you sad it's not there anymore. Maybe this church deserves a reconstruction. Although there are certainly more important candidates.
Autostädter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 05:14 AM   #513
Simfan34
Complainer-in-Chief
 
Simfan34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,884
Likes (Received): 2461

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autostädter View Post
The building by Kollhoff reminds me of the empty framework that resembles another lost church in Berlin (can't remember the name). Just makes you sad it's not there anymore. Maybe this church deserves a reconstruction. Although there are certainly more important candidates.
Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church? I can't say I don't agree.

__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
Simfan34 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 09:43 AM   #514
Skrapebook
Registered User
 
Skrapebook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 2,266
Likes (Received): 725

So good to see the castle reconstruction finally starting up for real!
No cowards and bastards will ever bomb beautiful Berlin again!
Gott Sei Dank
__________________
KAPITÄN EUROPA - DER SOMMER SOLDAT
Skrapebook no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #515
bolg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 916
Likes (Received): 759

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cake On BBQ View Post
It's the "symbol" of Prussia, so what? It's wrong to fill a building with so much sentiment and meaning. I'm sure most Germans would find such things like national marches, flag-waving and do-it-for-your-country kind of behaviour too nationalistic and outdated. But it's ok to reconstruct a building for such emotional reasons??

Mona Lisa is already one of the most replicated paintings in the history of art. So what's the point of repainting it in which case it burns down? We have to move on, although it doesn't mean you aren't supposed to be inspired by Mona Lisa.

And I wasn't suggesting a modernist building to replace Humboldt Forum like Palast der Republik.
I doubt most people long for flag-waving, military parades and wars over Silesia, but architectural heritage creates an important link to the past, to another time and another country.
__________________

erbse liked this post
bolg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #516
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,664
Likes (Received): 2622

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolg View Post
I doubt most people long for flag-waving, military parades and wars over Silesia, but architectural heritage creates an important link to the past, to another time and another country.
Perhaps we should build some of Albert Speer's projects in Berlin, then?

Note that there is a big difference between preserving a building from that era and building a replicate from scratch. The former is the architectural heritage you speak of, the latter is a monument to that period of our history. Do we really need to glorify Prussia/Imperial Germany in such a way?

Also note that the argument you just used could be used just as well to argue for the rebuilding of the Berlin Wall.

Last edited by droneriot; December 12th, 2013 at 02:14 PM.
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #517
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,431
Likes (Received): 21084

Exactly. That is the difference of preserving Burg Eltz as a medieval-era castle or promoting the Neuschwanstein (the first fake historical building on such scale) as some sort of representative of that period.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #518
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,280
Likes (Received): 57985

Lame argument (that is in fact none) that was chewed a zillion times.

Dresden's Frauenkirche e.g. wasn't rebuilt as a glorification of its religious purpose. It was rebuilt because of its great architectural value, the impact on the historical old town cityscape and its historical meaning for Dresden and the region. And you can see what it means to Dresden and how it changed the city for the better, even economically.

Same goes for Berlin's castle. It was one of the most important European works of Baroque, it has great merit and meaning for the composition of Berlin's historical center and it's an important ambassador of Berlin's, Prussia's and Germany's history.

There isn't much to debate anymore, really. Just get used to it: we're finally getting the Stadtschloss back! And you can't do anything about it.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Zaz965 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #519
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,664
Likes (Received): 2622

You're not getting anything back. You're getting a copy. I can xerox a couple dozen 100 Euro notes for you too if that makes you happy.
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #520
Tiaren
Registered User
 
Tiaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,702
Likes (Received): 5550

Quote:
Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
Note that there is a big difference between preserving a building from that era and building a replicate from scratch. The former is the architectural heritage you speak of, the latter is a monument to that period of our history. Do we really need to glorify Prussia/Imperial Germany in such a way?
Why does one thing (rebuilding) have to be politically laden and the other thing (preserving) conveniently not?
Tiaren no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
baroque fassade, berlin, construction field, heart of the city, humboldt lab dahlem, lustgarten, museum island, prussia, reconstruction, stadtschloss, stella

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu