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Old June 7th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #761
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Old June 7th, 2014, 08:30 PM   #762
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Old June 7th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Periquito89 View Post
and I was thinking exactly the opposite,
But one of the things I like about cities is the way you can see layers of history in the buildings and this has erased a very important layer, the old GDR building which I actually really liked design wise, although not politically. Now that's OK in my book, things evolve and change, but this has looked backwards rather than forwards.

I just feel we could have done something new and beautiful instead of this. I don't mean "modern" - concrete walkways and all that - but new and beautiful, we can do that, can't we? It was a difficult challenge in this location maybe but we didn't even try.

But hey, it might look nice. I suppose I'm just going to have to come and have look at the place once it's finished I suppose, then I can say for sure.

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Old June 8th, 2014, 06:41 AM   #764
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Is there any reason to not fully rebuild it with its original characteristics?
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Old June 8th, 2014, 11:57 AM   #765
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Is there any reason to not fully rebuild it with its original characteristics?
One of those short, but very hard to answer questions.

My reservations about this building run something like this: The original palace was a magnificent building, albeit with its roots in a social order I dislike very much. The order that created the building has been swept away by history so its reason for being no longer exists.

Now, had the building not been demolished after the war, it would have been right and proper for it to have been repaired and preserved with a new use. But that didn't happen and it was destroyed. Everything about the palace was history.

In its place was constructed a new building which very much reflected the ideology of that time. The Palast der Republik stamped in a very proud way the image of the communist era, which in its turn became history. Again, I would have kept the building because of what it had been.

Architecturally the old GDR "palace" was bold statement, something that looked to the future as seen at that time. In its way it was as bold an architectural statement as the original palace had been, built using the technology of the time, as the original palace had been.

But it was not to be preserved, instead it's been swept away to be replaced by a fake palace that isn't a palace, that looks old but isn't. Don't get me wrong, I think the use it's to be put to is excellent, but there is nothing forward looking about the visual presentation of the construction. For that reason it's not an "honest" building and it is a bit of a fake.

What does it say about modern Berlin? Perhaps it says a city that wants to forget its past? I would say that's never a good idea.

As I say I will come and see it when it's finished if I'm able to do so and I dare say I'll find it stunning.

Derek
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Old June 8th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #766
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Unlike other major metropolises of the western world, much of historical Berlin was wiped out. I don't think it'll hurt anyone to bring back some of its former landmark buildings.

There's more than enough room for Berlin to reinvent itself - and it does! The city is often considered the heart of the edgy creative scene globally now.
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Old June 8th, 2014, 06:24 PM   #767
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I know what you mean. I have a book which name is "Berlin New Architecture - A Guide to the new Buildings from 1989 to today", by Michael Imhof Verlag. And wow! Try to take a look at it.
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Old June 8th, 2014, 06:42 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nr23Derek View Post
One of those short, but very hard to answer questions.

(...)

As I say I will come and see it when it's finished if I'm able to do so and I dare say I'll find it stunning.

Derek
I think I´ll have to do it either
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Old June 9th, 2014, 04:44 PM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaleuPaes View Post
Is there any reason to not fully rebuild it with its original characteristics?
The original Stadt Schloss was a royal palace in a country that has not been a monarchy since 1918. Since there was nothing left of the original building and it's taking a lot of money to rebuild, you have to have some purpose for the building to justify the expense. Retaining the exterior and building the interior to serve as a convention center and museum solves the problem. Otherwise, they most likely would not have gotten support to rebuild it. Besides, the original interiors were wildly overdecorated in the Victorian style and would serve no useful purpose in today's world.

A similar situation exists in Budapest where the former royal palace is now an art museum and library. The exterior more or less survived the war while the interior was rebuilt to serve the building's new purpose.
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Old June 9th, 2014, 07:42 PM   #770
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Munich did much better with reconstruction. From Residence Palace to the Nymphenburg Palace, they reconstructed much of the pre-war Munich structures. The Old town was reconstructed pretty much to its original state and there is still strict height restriction to maintain the provincial flavor.

Berlin has a well-reconstructed palace, the Charlottenburg Palace. The Allies in West Germany were more enthusiastic about cultural preservation and reconstruction than the Soviets in East Germany. Instead of helping Germans to reconstruct their Old Towns, communists resorted to building soulless socialized tower blocks. The Stadt Schloss (and Museum Island) were part of East Berlin so they were not preserved and reconstructed like the Charlottenburg Palace in West Berlin. The Royal palace was replaced by a boxy Palace of the Republic. That was torn down, of course, after reunification. The purpose of the new Stadt Schloss is for education, tourism and business; not as a private residence of a monarch. Its reconstruction is similar to the Reichstag - original (toned-down) exterior with modern interior. I still dont understand though why they have to change the design of the back of the palace into this eyesore brutalist facade as if Berlin hasn't had enough of such structures...

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Old June 9th, 2014, 10:05 PM   #771
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Why the Modernistic Fourth Wall?

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I still dont understand though why they have to change the design of the back of the palace into this eyesore brutalist facade as if Berlin hasn't had enough of such structures...
I agree with you. I see no reason that the design of the other three sides of the "palace" could not have been continued on around to the fourth side. At the same time, reconstructing some of the original internal walls when everything else (including the other walls) are of a modern design makes no sense either. If it were me, I would have made all of the exterior walls in a baroque design while all interior walls would be in a modern design.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 10:19 AM   #772
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The Allies in West Germany were more enthusiastic about cultural preservation and reconstruction than the Soviets in East Germany. Instead of helping Germans to reconstruct their Old Towns, communists resorted to building soulless socialized tower blocks. The Stadt Schloss (and Museum Island) were part of East Berlin so they were not preserved and reconstructed like the Charlottenburg Palace in West Berlin.

I disagree with you. Most of the buildings of historic Berlin are in East Berlin. For example French dome and German Dome in Gendarmen markt, all the buildings in Unter den linden, St. Nikolai church. During eighties DDR change politics about preserving old Monuments. For example they restored well Opera thetre in Dresden. Of course they built many many horrible commieblocks, but in West Berlin modernists architect made the same job not preserving old buildings generally. I think architects from west and east are guilty in the same percentage
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Old June 10th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Whalen 7 View Post
I agree with you. I see no reason that the design of the other three sides of the "palace" could not have been continued on around to the fourth side.
Its a concession to the modernists. There have been lot more modernistic drafts for the humboldtforum at the architectural competition. You/ we can be happy with Stellas draft, if you look some other drafts of the competition...
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Old June 10th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #774
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Old June 10th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #775
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Stella's solution is the lesser evil compared to many of the concepts.
Actually there were only few better ones, imho the solutions of Kleihues, Kollhoff and Tchoban Voss.

Winning designs: http://berliner-schloss.de/neues-sch...ttbewerbs-2008

Kleihues + Kleihues (I only like the Spree facade of this design):

http://www.kleihues.com/images/stori...uptansicht.jpg

Hans Kollhoff:





http://berliner-schloss.de/wp-conten...1130172700.jpg


This design by NPS Tchoban Voss Architects continues the baroque exterior towards the river Spree. Somewhat in line with Schlüter's original late baroque plans.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/europaconcor..._01.080919.jpg

The riverfront is great here, they should do it like that:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/europaconcor..._02.080919.jpg
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Old June 10th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #776
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Funny. I saw too much of Stella's project that suddenly I´m in doubt if I would prefer the design by NPS Tchoban Voss Architects, which would be my very first choice to begin with, if I knew it back then (because the Spree baroque facade). Great post!

And seeing those projects, Stella indeed didn't push too much into the absurd, considering the mix of modern and old design! Turns out it seems cool!

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Old June 11th, 2014, 12:13 AM   #777
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Well ... I´m loving this baroque Spree facade as well, with this modern base close to the river. Beautiful! How cool architecture is!
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Old June 12th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #778
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Crazy guy DannyDarko from the german architecture forum moved to the top of the building during the open day of construction field. He has been marched off.

Here his pics in a dropbox.
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Old June 16th, 2014, 12:44 AM   #779
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Old June 17th, 2014, 11:42 PM   #780
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pictures from builders' hut

I was there, here some exklusiv impressions... Only donaters can entrace.



Old pieces of the castle...


this one has survived in a garden near Berlin and now it helps for reconstruction...










my own pic, ©Ludi and "Förderverein Berliner Stadtschloss"
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baroque fassade, berlin, construction field, heart of the city, humboldt lab dahlem, lustgarten, museum island, prussia, reconstruction, stadtschloss, stella

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