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Old November 25th, 2015, 05:02 PM   #1541
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Religiously dogmatized troll, no point to anwswer him.
Is impossible to discuss with someone that has not a single solid argument.
We've seen this a million times!!!

Congrats Berlin!
I've never been to the city, but as soon as City Palace construction is finished you'll have me there.
Some of us can percieve the romanticism behind the reconstruccion and beside the urban retrofit!
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Old November 25th, 2015, 07:06 PM   #1542
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Good Decision

I number myself among those who support the decision to rebuild the Stadtschloss. Reclaiming a significant part of German history and the history of Berlin as it does is, to me and many others, a worthwhile goal.

While personally, I would have rebuilt all four exterior walls in baroque style and left all of the interior walls modern, I respect the fact that what they are doing was their decision to make. I and many others look forward to the completion of the new building.
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Old November 25th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #1543
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Old November 25th, 2015, 08:50 PM   #1544
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Why so tiny...?

Blick über den Alexanderplatz by Jonas Apelt, on Flickr
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Old November 27th, 2015, 08:40 PM   #1545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDRB View Post
I think that this is the type of commentary that you need to avoid. If you don't like it, please don't say that in this community, well at least in that way.
This is an opinion forum, not a fan site. I don't like the project, and neither do 90% of architectural critics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaBRICS View Post
Religiously dogmatized troll, no point to anwswer him.
Is impossible to discuss with someone that has not a single solid argument.
We've seen this a million times!!!

Congrats Berlin!
I've never been to the city, but as soon as City Palace construction is finished you'll have me there.
Some of us can percieve the romanticism behind the reconstruccion and beside the urban retrofit!
I've been to Berlin more times than I can count. Apparently the city has been taken over by some lunatic fringe of conservatives who seem to think that they reconstruct its old architecture to rival Paris.

Firstly, this is completely delusional since the palace was never considered a great or interesting piece of architecture until the communists knocked it down. And Berlin was never as conventionally pretty or grand as Paris, which is why Hitler wanted to knock the place down and build it again.

Secondly, they completely miss the point of Berlin, which to me the most riveting and one of the most beautiful cities in Europe precisely because it's a mess and the scars of history are everywhere. It's got an edge and an attitude which the likes of Paris can never have. (Full disclosure: I despise Paris.) A lot of the modern stuff in Berlin is just fantastic, and most of the reconstructed historical buildings are drab. This was the ideal location for a great modern architectural statement. Of course, in an ideal world the GDR building should never have been knocked, because not only was it a nice accompaniment to the TV tower, but it represented the best of Berlin, with history - real history not fake Disney history like this reconstruction - dripping from every brick.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 09:01 PM   #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
This is an opinion forum, not a fan site. I don't like the project, and neither do 90% of architectural critics.



I've been to Berlin more times than I can count. Apparently the city has been taken over by some lunatic fringe of conservatives who seem to think that they reconstruct its old architecture to rival Paris.

Firstly, this is completely delusional since the palace was never considered a great or interesting piece of architecture until the communists knocked it down. And Berlin was never as conventionally pretty or grand as Paris, which is why Hitler wanted to knock the place down and build it again.

Secondly, they completely miss the point of Berlin, which to me the most riveting and one of the most beautiful cities in Europe precisely because it's a mess and the scars of history are everywhere. It's got an edge and an attitude which the likes of Paris can never have. (Full disclosure: I despise Paris.) A lot of the modern stuff in Berlin is just fantastic, and most of the reconstructed historical buildings are drab. This was the ideal location for a great modern architectural statement. Of course, in an ideal world the GDR building should never have been knocked, because not only was it a nice accompaniment to the TV tower, but it represented the best of Berlin with history - real history not fake Disney history like this reconstruction - dripping from every brick.
This is construction forum, not your opinion forum. Don't like it, then either don't visit this topic or log off and close your browser next time you want to state your opinion. World doesn't revolve around you so you can take your opinions and put then where sun don't shine hot shot. I come here to photos/updates, not to read your crap.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webeagle12 View Post
This is construction forum, not your opinion forum. Don't like it, then either don't visit this topic or log off and close your browser next time you want to state your opinion. World doesn't revolve around you so you can take your opinions and put then where sun don't shine hot shot. I come here to photos/updates, not to read your crap.
Are there no moderators on here who can deal with this sort of abuse?
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Old November 27th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
I've been to Berlin more times than I can count. Apparently the city has been taken over by some lunatic fringe of conservatives who seem to think that they reconstruct its old architecture to rival Paris.
Nothing is less conservative than to rebuild or build traditionnal.

Conservative is to follow dictamination of architecture establishment that totally disapprove reconstructions! Conservative is follow trends as a sheep.
You're totally dogmatised.

Who ever talked about Paris?
Who wants to rival Paris?
Nonsense after nonsense.

Your religious approach to modern architecture and dogmatic refussal of reconstruction reminded me this:

http://www.intbau.org/archive/essay3.htm

The good thing for Berlin is that if people with such an extremely narrow mindset rejects reconstruction, it only can be good!!!
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Old November 27th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaBRICS View Post
Nothing is less conservative than to rebuild or build traditionnal.

Conservative is to follow dictamination of architecture establishment that totally disapprove reconstructions! Conservative is follow trends as a sheep.
You're totally dogmatised.

Who ever talked about Paris?
Who wants to rival Paris?
Nonsense after nonsense.

Your religious approach to modern architecture and dogmatic refussal of reconstruction reminded me this:

http://www.intbau.org/archive/essay3.htm

The good thing for Berlin is that if people with such an extremely narrow mindset rejects reconstruction, it only can be good!!!
But it's not a reconstruction - it's a grotesque fantasy. It's about as much a 'reconstruction' as building a copy of the Eiffel tower on the Las Vegas strip. I had no problem with Buckingham palace being reconstructed after it was bombed during the war, but if somebody in London suggested rebuilding Richmond palace everybody would rightly consider they'd taken leave of their senses. Add to it the fact that it was built after destroying the former East German parliament building, which was the site of numerous historical events - the short-sightedness and sheer vandalism are breathtaking.

Last edited by enobarbus; November 27th, 2015 at 10:00 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 10:02 PM   #1550
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Who cares about London?

London is example of nothing regarding urbanism, and is the capital of architecture mainstream.
Is like asking Milton Friedman what he thinks of welfare state and taking him seriously...

Open your mind!
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Old November 27th, 2015, 10:16 PM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
Add to it the fact that it was built after destroying the former East German parliament building, which was the site of numerous historical events - the short-sightedness and sheer vandalism are breathtaking.
For example?
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Old November 27th, 2015, 10:36 PM   #1552
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Quote:
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For example?
Do you really not understand why the East German parliament is historically important?
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Old November 27th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
This is an opinion forum, not a fan site. I don't like the project, and neither do 90% of architectural critics.



I've been to Berlin more times than I can count. Apparently the city has been taken over by some lunatic fringe of conservatives who seem to think that they reconstruct its old architecture to rival Paris.

Firstly, this is completely delusional since the palace was never considered a great or interesting piece of architecture until the communists knocked it down. And Berlin was never as conventionally pretty or grand as Paris, which is why Hitler wanted to knock the place down and build it again.

Secondly, they completely miss the point of Berlin, which to me the most riveting and one of the most beautiful cities in Europe precisely because it's a mess and the scars of history are everywhere. It's got an edge and an attitude which the likes of Paris can never have. (Full disclosure: I despise Paris.) A lot of the modern stuff in Berlin is just fantastic, and most of the reconstructed historical buildings are drab. This was the ideal location for a great modern architectural statement. Of course, in an ideal world the GDR building should never have been knocked, because not only was it a nice accompaniment to the TV tower, but it represented the best of Berlin, with history - real history not fake Disney history like this reconstruction - dripping from every brick.
You are a perfect example of a mere tourist that only sees this city through their tourist eyes. People like you want to see Berlin with "scars", cheap communist buildings, hipster art scene and undeveloped districts only to experience their own fantasy of a "cool" city for a couple of days and go back to their beautiful, normal, organised city. People like you don't care that there are actually few million people living there, people that want to have a normal life in their normal city which can absolutely rival any capital in the world if it wants to. If you want to see a crappy commie city, visit some of those Chinese instant-cities, they are full of cheap architecture, but leave the Berliners to finally decide how they want to see their city, they'll for sure make a better decision than you.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 11:35 PM   #1554
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Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
You are a perfect example of a mere tourist that only sees this city through their tourist eyes. People like you want to see Berlin with "scars", cheap communist buildings, hipster art scene and undeveloped districts only to experience their own fantasy of a "cool" city for a couple of days and go back to their beautiful, normal, organised city. People like you don't care that there are actually few million people living there, people that want to have a normal life in their normal city which can absolutely rival any capital in the world if it wants to. If you want to see a crappy commie city, visit some of those Chinese instant-cities, they are full of cheap architecture, but leave the Berliners to finally decide how they want to see their city, they'll for sure make a better decision than you.
FYI I lived in Berlin for several months, so it is not purely as a tourist that I see it. You're so blinded by your own architectural biases, it seems, that you can't even acknowledge the Palast der Republik for the architectural masterpiece that it was. How sad.

I see a perfect parallel here with the capital of my own country, Dublin. The authorities here were so resentful of former British rule, that they proceeded to tear down half of Georgian Dublin. And let me tell you, we're regretting it now. Berlin will regret this.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 11:59 PM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
FYI I lived in Berlin for several months, so it is not purely as a tourist that I see it. You're so blinded by your own architectural biases, it seems, that you can't even acknowledge the Palast der Republik for the architectural masterpiece that it was. How sad.

I see a perfect parallel here with the capital of my own country, Dublin. The authorities here were so resentful of former British rule, that they proceeded to tear down half of Georgian Dublin. And let me tell you, we're regretting it now. Berlin will regret this.
If the Palast der Republik was such a masterpiece, it wouldn't get demolished. But I think this discussion is pointless since I can see how dogmatized you are. How sad.

I find it funny that you're comparing Georgian architecture with cheap commie architecture that can be found anywhere in the world and which is still being built in some poorer countries. I think it tells it all. Cheers.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #1556
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@ enobarbus, if you are so fond of Berlin, as you claim, stop insulting it and Berliners in the first place. No one is rebuilding the palace and other buildings to rival Paris or any other city. Not once have I heard such stupid comparisons before but from you now. Berlin/Germany doesn't need to copy other places. It has it's own history and architectural heritage and that history and architectural heritage is so so much more than that fugly pseudo parliament of the GDR, which was thrown up there and wrongfully occupied the original palace's spot for 30 years. The Stadtschloss however had a history of over 500 years. There real history was written!

Also fixed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
The GDR authorities here were so resentful of former Prussian rule, that they proceeded to tear down half of historical Berlin. And let me tell you, we're regretting it now.
Wham!! This probably just blew your mind.



But in comparison to Dublin we are now rolling up our sleeves to right the wrong that was done.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 12:13 AM   #1557
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I was never a fan of the Palast der Republik (for one thing: it had the appearance of a turbinehall) but for me, the point enobarbus is trying to make, is that architecture has more to it than providing 'a good feeling'. And the reconstruction of the Citypalace has a lot to do with providing 'a good feeling'.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 12:28 AM   #1558
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Do you really not understand why the East German parliament is historically important?
No, not really. Apart from a short period after 18th March 1990, it was an irrelevant institution. Chosen delegates to chear Ulbricht and Honecker.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #1559
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Do you really not understand why the East German parliament is historically important?
You do realize that in all Socialist countries parliaments had virtually no influence over the governing of the country, right? As Saxonia has pointed out, it more or less had only one substantial vote which was to join the federal republic.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #1560
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Back to the Subject Please

Is their any chance that we can get back to monitoring the Humboldt Forum construction site? Arguing about the pros and cons of Berlin as a city seems pointless since there are never any "right" or "wrong" opinions in that sort of thing.
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