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Old November 28th, 2015, 04:44 PM   #1561
enobarbus
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Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
You do realize that in all Socialist countries parliaments had virtually no influence over the governing of the country, right? As Saxonia has pointed out, it more or less had only one substantial vote which was to join the federal republic.
Yes, that doesn't make it historically unimportant. In many ways, this building was the official heart and soul of the GDR, with cultural events and important political meetings happening there frequently. Destroying it is, in my view, attempting to purge the memory of the hated GDR.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 06:50 PM   #1562
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The PdR was finished in 1976 only 14 years later the DDR ceased to exist.

This is where politics was made:

Staatsratsgebäude


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._in_Berlin.jpg


http://www.my-entdecker.de/2014/06/3...sratsgebaeude/

Haus des ZK der SED (aka Reichsbank, aka Auswärtiges Amt (Foreign Office))


http://www.bukarest.diplo.de/content...ZKZentrale.jpg


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...jpg?uselang=de
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Old November 28th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #1563
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I think it's ridiculous to hate a building -and want it demolished- based on its history.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 09:18 PM   #1564
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I think it's ridiculous to hate a building -and want it demolished- based on its history.
not necessarily, if the buildings are related to foreign communist occupation. I once said here the Fernsehturm should be demolished and replaced by a new tower 400m tall
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Old November 29th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #1565
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I was born East German.
The Fernsehturm / TV Tower was and is iconic for East Germans and now all Germans. It won't be torn down.

The Palast der Republik was almost universally laughed at and disliked (look for "Erichs Lampenladen" and similar mockeries). Admired somehow for its pompous light installations and some other features inside yes, but that's about it.

Besides being poisoned with asbestos and other harmful chemicals, it just looked drab even when fairly new. It was objectively the totally wrong building for this location. If it was somewhere next to Karl-Marx-Allee, nobody would've mind if it stayed, but not as a substitute for Berlin's historical heart and origin that stood and has grown there for centuries. That was blown up brutally by the SED to have a marching square and the PdR later. NO WAY. We won't let socialist cultural terrorism and ugliness win over Berlin's heart. EOD for me.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 01:50 AM   #1566
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I once said here the Fernsehturm should be demolished and replaced by a new tower 400m tall
Yeah, and that's ridiculous.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 03:39 AM   #1567
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[QUOTE=enobarbus;128908108]


It's got an edge and an attitude which the likes of Paris can never have. (Full disclosure: I despise Paris.) A lot of the modern stuff in Berlin is just fantastic, and most of the reconstructed historical buildings are drab. This was the ideal location for a great modern architectural statement.


You know that Berlin has one building, only one reconstructed?
And that one is not 100%. Or do you count fixing church towers as re-constructions?

The government wanted modern at first, But concrete would been to unfriendly and a Glass box unfit for sun rays and stealing as well as the need for an air conditioning. Not to mention the need to hide the wiring in a glass box. Berlin has Glass Boxes. They all have technical difficulties despite looking good.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 05:53 AM   #1568
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Are there no moderators on here who can deal with this sort of abuse?

That isn't abuse.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #1569
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I saw this monstrosity under construction in Berlin last week. I have to say this is the most ill-conceived and ridiculous project I've ever come across - especially given it's in an apparently forward-looking place like Berlin.
I'm going to assume this is a troll, because otherwise it's someone completely ignorant to the historical and cultural significance of this project. This project says more about the future of Berlin than any benign soulless modern building could ever.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:07 PM   #1570
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I'm going to assume this is a troll, because otherwise it's someone completely ignorant to the historical and cultural significance of this project. This project says more about the future of Berlin than any benign soulless modern building could ever.
I'm actually stunned that people on an architectural forum are so unanimously in favour of this. You could count on one hand the number of serious architects in the world who thinks this is a good idea.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:15 PM   #1571
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I'm actually stunned that people on an architectural forum are so unanimously in favour of this. You could count on one hand the number of serious architects in the world who thinks this is a good idea.
Who cares for their opinion?! It's their fault that a desire for reconstruction of destroyed buildings is growing rapidly. If those destroyed buildings were replaced by something that people actually like, we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place. And, please, name me some of those architects. I can assure you that every single one of them built at least one crappy building.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:15 PM   #1572
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And I could count the number of architects I take serious on one hand.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:52 PM   #1573
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Quote:
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The PdR was finished in 1976 only 14 years later the DDR ceased to exist.

This is where politics was made:

Staatsratsgebäude

I don't understand why this original portail isn't put in the palace and a new facade is designed for this uber ugly building.

What was in it's place before the bombings and soviets?
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Old November 30th, 2015, 01:42 AM   #1574
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It's not such a bad building when seen in context. It got quite some classical appeal actually. And the interiors are quite something.

The portal isn't really like the original either. It's not much of a reconstruction in various details. It's some kind of socialist romanticism. Still, it will be odd to have this across a portal of the south-side baroque palace facades - but so typical Berlin. I'm excited for the tourist guides trying to explain the whole situation there...
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Old November 30th, 2015, 02:00 AM   #1575
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Who cares for their opinion?! It's their fault that a desire for reconstruction of destroyed buildings is growing rapidly. If those destroyed buildings were replaced by something that people actually like, we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place. And, please, name me some of those architects. I can assure you that every single one of them built at least one crappy building.
Fair enough. The point is that I'm expressing a valid opinion, and a widely shared one, that this is crap. It's hardly trolling.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 02:14 AM   #1576
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As valid as saying Sun turns around the Earth.
Argumentsless
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Old November 30th, 2015, 02:14 AM   #1577
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"Widely shared" is really disputable, enobarbus. You didn't share any valuable references for this.
That "this is crap" isn't much of a "valid opinion" either, it's blatant opinionism.
Even from the harsher critics among modernist architects I never heard such things. They were critical indeed, but never dared to call the baroque facades crap or anything. Because they'd look like fools anyway. Many of them also don't oppose to the idea of reconstruction, as even some of their most beloved buildings such as the Bauhaus in Dessau were reconstructed.

So, anyway. We've heard your point. If you don't have anything substantial to add (obviously not), it's time to move on.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #1578
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I gather there is some controversy around the return of the Neptune fountain to it's original site. Will this also affect the return of the Horse Tamers?



http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berli...,32411954.html
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Old December 1st, 2015, 07:20 AM   #1579
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About the "serious architects" thing,

I went through a phase when I would only watch TV shows if they got really good reviews. After a while, though, I realized that I'd rather just watch stuff I actually enjoy regardless of what the critics say.

In the same way, I think id rather see a building I enjoy looking at, and not pretend to like modern architecture just because the "serious architects" say it's technically good design.

Edit: By the way, id actually argue that this discussion is perfectly suited to the thread, I mean arguing over the merits of the construction is perfectly acceptable for a forum about the construction, no?
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Old December 1st, 2015, 07:56 AM   #1580
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And about the supposed historic merits of the palast. First, the palace had witnessed ten times the history of the palast. Second, the palace obviously had at least ten times if not a thousand times (not exaggerating with that number, just count the statues) the artistic effort put into it over the centuries. On top of that, the palast was only like 50 years old! It was the equivalent of a scab on the skin of the city, just waiting to be healed up. I can't believe there is even an argument over what deserves to be in that spot.
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