daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments

General Urban Developments Discussions of projects shorter than 100m/300ft. Also, please post all other threads not specified in other Development News subforums here.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 18th, 2016, 10:24 AM   #1821
Steinar37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 27

I read that the Rittersaal (I think it was the Rittersaal) will be reconstructed as the only reconstructed room in the "New" palace.
Can anyone confirm?
Steinar37 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 19th, 2016, 03:17 AM   #1822
Tiaren
Registered User
 
Tiaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,702
Likes (Received): 5550

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steinar37 View Post
I read that the Rittersaal (I think it was the Rittersaal) will be reconstructed as the only reconstructed room in the "New" palace.
Can anyone confirm?
No, that is unfortunately not true. Right now there are no plans for any reconstruction.
If there is a small chance for a reconstruction at a later point it is going to be the Gigantentreppe:



And then maybe the Schweizer Saal situated above it:



These two beautiful rooms have priority and their space isn't going to be occupied by anything too important in the Humboldt-Forum, just the very austere Lapidarium:



But like with all reconstructions: It is only coming if people are going to support it and donations make it possible.
__________________

Titan Man, erbse, Fudgis, Opulentus, cilindr0 and 2 others liked this post

Last edited by Tiaren; May 19th, 2016 at 05:07 PM.
Tiaren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 19th, 2016, 03:23 PM   #1823
makoppa
Registered User
 
makoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hamburg, Johannesburg & Durban
Posts: 440
Likes (Received): 110

__________________

JustinHerman liked this post
makoppa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 02:34 PM   #1824
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57844

Each and everyone who once appreciated and joyfully anticipated the "contrasting, exciting" East Facade must admit now:
this modernist piece of **** is a total fail. Bland, dull, unelegant, unimaginative, uninspiring.

No, this is not the concrete building shell. It's the freaking final thing!


by forumer Leperd
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Bosi, schorsch, TM_Germany, 8166UY liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 02:49 PM   #1825
hp7960
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Warszawa Bemowo
Posts: 2,142
Likes (Received): 3662

Why it is so gray ? It should be something in sandy tone.
hp7960 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #1826
artObserver
Registered User
 
artObserver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 663
Likes (Received): 1572

It's sad, but this result was inevitable, since functionalism completely dominates in modern German architecture
artObserver no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 05:04 PM   #1827
Steve Gatlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: san francisco
Posts: 28
Likes (Received): 20

You're right Erbse

It's my hope that the east facade will outrage enough Berliners that money will flow in just for replacing it with one compatible with the rest of the outside of the building. Otherwise, it should be covered with vines! Too bad Ficus pumila can't survive outside in Berlin!
Steve Gatlin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 05:22 PM   #1828
Drainaps
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 2

Great Progress!
Drainaps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 05:31 PM   #1829
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,479

It's not that bad, it would surely look better in sunlight.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 06:28 PM   #1830
Fudgis
Registered User
 
Fudgis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 134

Hmmm, I fear that east façade will forever evoke the ghost of the Palast der Republik when the work is finished; the other three facades will proclaim the joy of reclaiming what was lost in place of the concrete monster that once sat here, whilst this section will likely be an eternal reminder of just that, a kind of 'Ulbricht's revenge' or 'DDR's last laugh!'
__________________

GEwinnen, erbse, Bosi, benpicko, robertwood liked this post
Fudgis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 05:03 AM   #1831
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,404
Likes (Received): 21020

The façade is not bad at all.

@erbse picked a pic showing it in the gloomiest possible light conditions. Under better sunlight, or even night artificial lighting, it will look fine. I read the old façade on that side was just a mismatch of several interventions over couple centuries, done in a very haphazard manner, so it is not like it was worth rebuilding anyway.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 05:57 AM   #1832
goschio
proud Kuffar
 
goschio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ujerumani
Posts: 6,048
Likes (Received): 4198

OMG that is so bad and cheap looking.
__________________
Isaiah 28:2
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

TM_Germany liked this post
goschio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 11:11 AM   #1833
Tiaren
Registered User
 
Tiaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,702
Likes (Received): 5550

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The façade is not bad at all.

@erbse picked a pic showing it in the gloomiest possible light conditions. Under better sunlight, or even night artificial lighting, it will look fine.
Also, to be perfectly fair, it is still just a shell since it's large windows are missing. The facade isn't really finished yet contrary to what Erbse claimed.



It will never be a beauty...but one has to be fair.
__________________

Suburbanist, robertwood liked this post
Tiaren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 01:31 PM   #1834
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57844

Spree Facade | East Facade of the Royal Palace Berlin - Historical views

I'm as fair as remotely possible here. The facade is finished. It doesn't matter much if the windows are missing yet (you could easily notice that), they won't change much about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
@erbse picked a pic showing it in the gloomiest possible light conditions. Under better sunlight, or even night artificial lighting, it will look fine. I read the old façade on that side was just a mismatch of several interventions over couple centuries, done in a very haphazard manner, so it is not like it was worth rebuilding anyway.
Don't be ridiculous. Architecture that looks bad in these light conditions is bad architecture, period. It's gloomy like that in Berlin for like 4/5 of the year.

The older parts on this side were an interesting sidenote. It was historically grown imperfection, which makes a lot of the true beauty and charm of old European cities. Some of the oldest architecture in central Berlin and part of its earliest history were on this side of the Royal Palace. If they wouldn't reconstruct it, I'd expect them to at least create something that matches the style of the baroque facades (as planned by Stüler et al), not dull modernism you'd find anywhere else.

This was the historical pre-war condition, I expect at least the renaissance royal pharmacy (Schlossapotheke, to the right) to be reconstructed sooner than later (Kaiser-Wilhelm Bridge / today's Liebknechtbrücke in the front, also remains to be reconstructed in parts):


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...cke-Berlin.jpg

Seen from the Palace side/Lustgarten, Palace Pharmacy (Schlossapotheke) to the right, towards Kaiser-Wilhelm-Bridge towards the Marienkirche church (in 1900):


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...uecke_1900.jpg

I think they should reconstruct the right corner building at Kaiser-Wilhelm-Strasse by Cremer & Wolffenstein there!

The whole Spree side (without the pharmacy):

http://gaestebuch.forum-stadtbild.de...reefluegel.htm




http://www.bilderbuch-berlin.net/Fot...r_spree_388577



A more distant view of the Palace with the Marienviertel and some of its more modern/historicist corners in the front:

http://www.bilderbuch-berlin.net/Fot...oss_dom_298908

And with the Cathedral (Berliner Dom) like it was before its simplified reconstruction post-1945 (and with the Denkmalskirche annex in the front, now an empty place):


http://www.bilderbuch-berlin.net/Fot...schloss_388572

An aerial view that wasn't shown here before, with parts of the old town of Berlin behind (Marienviertel, Heilig-Geist-Viertel):


http://www.bilderbuch-berlin.net/Fot...und_dom_390202
https://kreuzberged.com/2016/03/12/t...-stadtschloss/
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Last edited by erbse; May 27th, 2016 at 01:51 PM.
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 01:38 PM   #1835
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57844

Additional historical model of the Berlin Palace pre-war, of course it seems a little cluttered, but more charming and interesting than the flattened thing:


/free to use

















The National Monument / Kaiser-Wilhelm Memorial:


All from: http://berlinerbaustellen.blogspot.d...nochenjob.html


Everyone sure nothing there is reconstruction-worthy? I don't think so.

This historical model of the Stadtschloss can be seen at Humboldtbox right next to the construction site, which is free to enter (of course you'll feel tempted to leave donations, many of them! ).
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Last edited by erbse; May 27th, 2016 at 01:47 PM.
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 02:21 PM   #1836
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57844

Alternative designs for the Spree Facade / East Facade of Berlin's Royal Palace in Mitte

There would have been more appropriate solutions for this side of the Palace, more in line with the baroque facades:

http://berliner-schloss.de/neues-sch...ttbewerbs-2008

Kleihues + Kleihues (I only like the Spree facade of this design):

http://www.kleihues.com/images/stori...uptansicht.jpg

Hans Kollhoff is especially good, the closest to pre-war but still some creative re-interpretations:




http://abload.de/img/20081130172700pqydw.jpg
http://berliner-schloss.de/wp-conten...1130172700.jpg


This design by NPS Tchoban Voss Architects continues the baroque exterior towards the river Spree.
Somewhat in line with Schlüter's original late baroque plans, but a bit bland and unoriginal to me.


http://s3.amazonaws.com/europaconcor..._01.080919.jpg

The riverfront is great here, they should do it like that:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/europaconcor..._02.080919.jpg


And then there was the suggestion of architect Stephan Braunfels, to leave out the Eastwing for an open courtyard (which leaves the problem of a missing baroque courtyard facade at Schlüterhof though):











I like this earlier version best, which would have put the colonnades of the baroque facade free-standing instead, so it's a semi-open courtyard, that'd have been magnificent, while of course totally ahistorical:


http://www.rbb-online.de/kultur/them...Braunfels.html
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 02:37 PM   #1837
goschio
proud Kuffar
 
goschio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ujerumani
Posts: 6,048
Likes (Received): 4198

^
They seem to have chosen the worst possible facade. Even some of the alternative modern designs look reasonably good.
__________________
Isaiah 28:2
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

TM_Germany liked this post
goschio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 02:38 PM   #1838
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57844

Franco Stella created a crappy Ostfassade on purpose?!

Actually, Franco Stella is someone who appreciates classical architecture a lot and usually builds sensitive to environment and urban surroundings, especially in historical ensembles. He's more postmodern rather than modernist.

Maybe his intention was indeed to create something as dull as possible, so it can be torn down - as soon as possible (I suspected this when I've seen the first renders years ago). Sounds awkward, but the Bundestag decision clearly stated the Spree facade needs to be modernist, it was an ideological thing.

So it seems possible Stella did it like this to make demolition fantasies soon more likely. After all, his courtyards and passageways are much better designs (because he wanted them to remain probably). But it's just me speculating. Again, Stella is no hardcore modernist, so I think all this isn't super unlikely.

I suggest you look at his website and judge for yourself:

http://www.francostella.eu/projects.html
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #1839
JustinHerman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 119
Likes (Received): 169

The modern Spree façade looks like a contemporary American parking garage, disguised to look like anything but.

I love the old river façade and Apothek. Both were rustically simple compared to the baroque palace, with its sheer size and thousands of tons of carved stone, and therefore should be easily reconstructed. I hope that, once the palace is completed, the modern façade is demolished and the old one rebuilt.
__________________

Opulentus liked this post

Last edited by JustinHerman; May 28th, 2016 at 06:39 PM.
JustinHerman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2016, 07:40 PM   #1840
Joe Whalen 7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 172
Likes (Received): 128

Lustgarten Question

When the Nazis paved over the Lustgarten in the 1930s, what did they do with the statue of Friederich Wilhelm IV that used to stand there? (At least I believe that was who it was.) Did that statue survive the war and where did it end up since it is no longer in the restored Lustgarten? Just curious.
Joe Whalen 7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
baroque fassade, berlin, construction field, heart of the city, humboldt lab dahlem, lustgarten, museum island, prussia, reconstruction, stadtschloss, stella

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu