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Old December 14th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #681
kimahrikku1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post



this is official line(blue) what it is written? can you read hangul?




No it connect to songdo.
Why you don't believe me? give me a break man
don;t you remember you unbelieve me that "seoul in the risky of DEFAULT" BUT as i give you official news article you admit it isn;t it?. why again ?

You confused GTX. who teach you there is TWO different rail way system in this project?

This high speed line 2 is GTX version. SONGDO LINE IS SAME GTX 2line high speed. if you deny someone's opinions you must check the fact ok?
You're lying about me saying there was no risk default in Seoul, and having to admit it after reading your article. I said there was no generalized risk of default in Korea, and specifically pointed out that I wasn't refering to the situation of local governments, which was indeed different.

Just read what I said in our post.

Quote:
Now, Korea does have large private debt as well as large municipal and regional debt, but stating that Korea's growing welfare expenditure is on the brink of causing the country to default is wrong.
Quote:
It's not the Korean Government budget that you're mentioning, it's the city's 25 districts' budget. National government and municipal governments are completely different entities with separate budgets.
Quote:
Finally, you failed to mentioned that in my previous post, i DID acknowledge that the local government debt situation (and private debt) was an issue. My point was specifically that you attributed a local government debt problem to the entire national government's welfare policy that was about to ruin the country.
So I stand by my initial statement, and I will not accept you trying to manipulate my words.


Now, back to the subject. Yes, I read hangul. I will admit not perfectly, and I will admit that I might not have the most up-to-date information about either GTX or this project, if indeed different. So, I read various reports, articles, and my conclusions are different from yours.

So please hear me through. I didn't write the original to try to prove you wrong, I read facts that were apparently different from you and I just wanted to bring them up in a constructive manner
The GTX (or 수도권광역급행철도) is developed by Gyeonggi, not Seoul. I've browsed through maps, and all the ones I could find mentioned the same 3 lines.


There is no line from Songdo to Jamsil or anything like this.

Line B goes from Songdo to Cheongnyangni, but through Yongsan and Yeouido.

Regarding this "2nd Line 2" that you mentioned, I simply typed 2호선 on browser and came up with a bunch of news articles regarding a new line 2 of some sort.
Articles include these ones :
http://www.sisaweek.com/news/article...ml?idxno=33078
http://www.newspim.com/view.jsp?newsId=20141212000420
http://news.donga.com/List/3/all/20141212/68511151/1

All of them refer to the line as "2호선 급행노선", or "Express Line 2" in English. And none of them refer to the line as GTX or 수도권광역급행철도.

And the announced line from all the articles is
Quote:
당아래역에서 잠실역까지 이어지는 2호선급행노선은 기존 2호선 노선보다는 구간이 길어질 예정이다.
From 당아래역 (Dangare) to 잠실역 (Jamsil)

In addition, two of the articles mention something that led me to think GTX and Express Line 2 are indeed separate project. I quote:
Quote:
서울시는 또 대심도 급행노선을 장기적으로는 경기 GTX와 연결하는 방안에 대해서도 고려 중인 것으로 알려졌다
I'll try to translate, but my Korean being imperfect, I might not be right.
Seoul City informed (the media) that they were considering a plan in the long-term to connect the in-depth high-speed line to Gyeonggi's GTX

I'm not saying that I'm 100% right:
- I might have misread Korean
- I might have missed recent news on GTX (change of line design...)
- I have never seen any map similar to yours. Could you please refer us to articles or the original source for your map. If your map is correct (and my, say outdated), I will gladly accept that I was wrong.

But, the way I see it with the articles and maps at my disposal, it induces two different projects.

If my informations are wrong, by all means correct me, and if you have the article related to your map, I'd be happy to read it.

Thanks,
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Old December 14th, 2014, 12:28 AM   #682
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Also, I must say that your map might be outdated:
- It still seems to point Line 9 as under construction (probably a 2009 map)

- It refers to the GTX as "MTX", although the MTX name was later dropped

Source:https://mirror.enha.kr/wiki/GTX
Quote:
상기한 대로 GTX의 G는 Great의 약자이지만 국토교통부가 G를 경기(Gyeonggi)를 뜻하는 것으로 보는지 MTX(Metropolitan Train eXpress)로 명칭 변경을 검토했으나, 흐지부지 무산됐다.
- The GTX (or MTX) line A stops at Paju in your map, although it was recently firmly decided that the line would end at the KINTEX station
http://www.newspim.com/view.jsp?newsId=20140827000527
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Old December 14th, 2014, 04:57 PM   #683
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Dear kimahrikku1 you ask your korean friend and ask them to translation above news article.


OFFICIAL SEOUL PUBLIC NOTIFICATION

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimahrikku1 View Post
There is no line from Songdo to Jamsil or anything like this.
Line B goes from Songdo to Cheongnyangni, but through Yongsan and Yeouido.


http://www.incheonilbo.com/news/arti...l?idxno=515915

Hey kimahrikku1. You waste my precious time for meaningless topic.
listen carefully

THERE ARE 3 GTX PROJECT
A IS ISLSAN TO SAMSUNG TO DONGTAN
B IS SONGDO TO SEOUL STATION TO CHUNGRANGLI
C IS UJUNGBU TO KUNPO

these are OLD version

GTX B line changed from SONGDO/SEOUL STATION/CHUNGRANGLI to SONGDO/GANGNAM/JAMSIL

New proposed version=same with seoul's line 2 high speed 100km project.
due to economical feasibility they are compromise GTX b LINE changed to gangnam/jamsil
you confused these mixed project with new 2line high speed subway project.

This high speed line 2 100km is this NEW plan changed GTX B line. did you understand?

your question=There is no line from Songdo to Jamsil or anything like this.==>my answer=of course you don;t know because you can't check the new update fact due you are not familiar with korean news and hangul. this is not your fault or your inability because you are foreigner. so don't waste my time to explanation for your personal understanding.
your question=Line B goes from Songdo to Cheongnyangni, but through Yongsan and Yeouido.<==my answer=that is OLD version line already useless

In short This NEW Seoul subway 2LINE high speed 100km is not only seoul metropolitan project but also inchen/gyunggiy project.
which mean mega project like the RER of paris , CrossRail of london!

i give you one article you GOOGLE TRANSLATATION IT
송도 - 잠실 GTX 타당성 연구 착수
D노선의 길이는 54.6㎞이고, 정거장은 송도-인천시청-부평-당아래-가산디지털단지-사당-강남-삼성-잠실로 추정 사업비는 약 5조5000억원이다.


SOURCE ==> http://www.incheonilbo.com/news/arti...l?idxno=518224

woud you check this news's date? the EARLY of this years. few days ago seoul's official announce is this new changed plan's RESULT!!

PLEASE DEAR kimahrikku1. Everyday I take in subway 2line and further more this new high speed line 2(GTX D=new version of old Line B) connected with my home town. OK? please trust in me about seoul project
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Old December 14th, 2014, 05:39 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Inno, it looks like on that map that there will be a more direct connection between Incheon Airport and the Gyeongchun line out to Chuncheon. It also says that that will lead to Sokcho. Do you know if that's supposed to be for the Pyeongchang Olympics in 2018, connecting to the Jungang line down to Wonju, or is it part of the longer-term plan for a high-speed rail line to Korea's east coast?

I was so disappointed I wasn't able to go to the east coast when I was in Korea years ago; it looks really beautiful!

You are right. as you know korea government promised HIGH SPEED rail road to connect between Inchen airport to PYONGCHANG WINTER OLYMPIC region.

but economical feasibility this huge project disappear.
my interesting is only seoul project so I don;t know what exact information and update news but
Now HYUNDAI ROTEM make a 300km high speed train for 원주~강릉 고속철도(WONJU ~PYONGCHANG WINTER OLYMPIC REGION)http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?...5038&outlink=1
SO maybe half project ongoing.(no directly line from incheon air port to east coast
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Old December 14th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #685
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HYUNDAI HEAVY INDUSTRY company MOVE TO sangam dmc building

hyundai marine/plant design/chemical move to new built 25fl building(among them they used 5fl as head office

marine plant designer 170 employee/chemical plant designer 230 employee

total 700 engineers accommodated in new office in sangam dmc
http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?...3402&outlink=1

triumph of city korea government try to dismember seoul's power but fail!
big company day by day gathering in seoul
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Old December 14th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post


Dear kimahrikku1 you ask your korean friend and ask them to translation above news article.


OFFICIAL SEOUL PUBLIC NOTIFICATION




http://www.incheonilbo.com/news/arti...l?idxno=515915

Hey kimahrikku1. You waste my precious time for meaningless topic.
listen carefully

THERE ARE 3 GTX PROJECT
A IS ISLSAN TO SAMSUNG TO DONGTAN
B IS SONGDO TO SEOUL STATION TO CHUNGRANGLI
C IS UJUNGBU TO KUNPO

these are OLD version

GTX B line changed from SONGDO/SEOUL STATION/CHUNGRANGLI to SONGDO/GANGNAM/JAMSIL

New proposed version=same with seoul's line 2 high speed 100km project.
due to economical feasibility they are compromise GTX b LINE changed to gangnam/jamsil
you confused these mixed project with new 2line high speed subway project.

This high speed line 2 100km is this NEW plan changed GTX B line. did you understand?

your question=There is no line from Songdo to Jamsil or anything like this.==>my answer=of course you don;t know because you can't check the new update fact due you are not familiar with korean news and hangul. this is not your fault or your inability because you are foreigner. so don't waste my time to explanation for your personal understanding.
your question=Line B goes from Songdo to Cheongnyangni, but through Yongsan and Yeouido.<==my answer=that is OLD version line already useless

In short This NEW Seoul subway 2LINE high speed 100km is not only seoul metropolitan project but also inchen/gyunggiy project.
which mean mega project like the RER of paris , CrossRail of london!

i give you one article you GOOGLE TRANSLATATION IT
송도 - 잠실 GTX 타당성 연구 착수
D노선의 길이는 54.6㎞이고, 정거장은 송도-인천시청-부평-당아래-가산디지털단지-사당-강남-삼성-잠실로 추정 사업비는 약 5조5000억원이다.


SOURCE ==> http://www.incheonilbo.com/news/arti...l?idxno=518224

woud you check this news's date? the EARLY of this years. few days ago seoul's official announce is this new changed plan's RESULT!!

PLEASE DEAR kimahrikku1. Everyday I take in subway 2line and further more this new high speed line 2(GTX D=new version of old Line B) connected with my home town. OK? please trust in me about seoul project
No, the B line has not been changed to Songdo-Jamsil. As mentioned in your own post, they were (and probably still is) considering either rerouting the line altogether from Songdo to Jamsil, or adding a branch from Dongare to Jamsil (which would be indeed named Line D). This reflexion has been going on since this Spring, but no change has been officialized as of now.
Your own articles mention that it's only a possibility being considered at the time, and they'll study it before making any change to the line (hence the words 변경하면 연구 검토 ... popping up in all the articles mentioning the GTX B or D line project).

The Seoul City government came forward on December 10th with a 933 page public transportation plan, the one you indeed mentioned in your post. What I'm gonna be discussing is the plan of the Seoul City government, that have led to all these articles these past few days.

(page 81)
Seoul government is listing all under construction or under planning by 수도권.
You'll see that the line listed for GTX Line B is the "old" line (Songdo Cheongnyangni)



(page 248-249)
Seoul Government is presenting its own plans to accompany the introduction of GTX and make it faster and more convenient to connect with GTX.
- The SinAnSan line (connecting Southern Seoul and Gyeonggi to Yeouido and hence the originally planned B Line)
- Extension of the Suseo KTX Line to Uijeongbu (linking Lines A and C)
- Expansion of the ShinBunDang line from Gangnam (already being expanded to Yongsan), all the way to Gwanghwamun, thus allowing for transfers at Seoul Station with Line A.



The map below sums up the projects developed by Seoul government to accompany the GTX lines, please note that none of the GTX lines are actually drawn on this map.


Finally, it's making it's recommandation to develop In-Depth High-Speed Line 2, connecting with Line B at Dongare. So what's Seoul City is doing is basically taking the GTX Line B project, and will probably try to develop it on its own (rather than under the GTX name and system).

Now, we are still years down the road, and the GTX project might eventually be changed and take over the yet unofficial "D line" or scrap the "B line" altogether in favor of "D line", but as of now, Seoul City is coming up with it's own plan in complement of GTX's original alignment.
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Old December 14th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #687
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over bridge construction task successfully finished
hardest task that
length 75m high 4.2m, weight 224ton steel box girder 5 unit with floating sky assembling construction over 2~30m high than KTXtrain camp/anyangchun river/suhaean highway bridge/kungbu train road/shihungdaegyo



gangnam circle high way project : at the very moment 53% progress
this highway project is one of CIRCLE surrounded seoul project.
this highway will be connected with 서부간선도로 subugansundoro(now prepare for big dig underground construction)

so gangnam circle high way==>gangnam suchodaro==>geumcheongu(my home town)==>subugansundoru(undground highway)==>second worldcup bridge==>sangam dmc

kimahrikku1 believe your own creed. I give up
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Old December 14th, 2014, 10:08 PM   #688
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Well, about my own "creed", i'm literally quoting the actual 도시교통정비 기본계획 official document that you were mentioning. Except mine isn't the front page, but the full length 900+ report. I'd be happy to share it with you.

Anyway, as you mentioned, this discussion isn't going anywhere, let's put it to rest.

Regarding the highway, do you know when it's going to be completed? Seems like a very useful project indeed. From my own experience, driving from Gwanak to Gangnam is absolutely hellish, this could really help solve things.
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Old December 15th, 2014, 02:24 AM   #689
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Northern Seoul is busy redeveloping their elevated expressways into parks while the South is busy installing new ones?

That's why Northern Seoul will always be so much cooler than Gangnam.

I do like the duplicate line #2 plan, though.
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Old December 15th, 2014, 03:14 AM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Ray View Post
Northern Seoul is busy redeveloping their elevated expressways into parks while the South is busy installing new ones?

That's why Northern Seoul will always be so much cooler than Gangnam.

I do like the duplicate line #2 plan, though.
I like Southern Seoul better, but that's just me.

It's true that the "greening" of North Bank expressways and the construction of new Highways in Southern Seoul might seem contradictory.

But I just researched about this project, and here's a video of where the highway is going to be built:


As you can see:
1/ It's not right in the middle of the city, blocking the view of landmarks, like in Jongno-gu or Jung-gu. In fact, most of the new highway will be built in the outskirts of the city.
2/ Actually, it seems that expect when the new expressway arrives in valleys or built areas, the vast majority of the highway will be underground beneath mountains.
3/ I think Southern Seoul traffic might be worse than Northern Seoul, so there is probably a greater "need" for a new highway.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 12:28 AM   #691
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WORLD CUP BRIDGE PROJECT U/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Ray View Post
Northern Seoul is busy redeveloping their elevated expressways into parks while the South is busy installing new ones?

That's why Northern Seoul will always be so much cooler than Gangnam.

I do like the duplicate line #2 plan, though.

I glad that Sister Ray's opinions. maybe it is coincidence or something but my opinions used to agree with your perspective.(especailly about foolish korean government's public company and ministry of korea forceful move to SUBURBAN policy. they called it as suburban balance development policy)

Also I love northern seoul than south(gangnam).
though mayns great skyscraper in south seoul but south can't defeat northern seoul's atmosphere.
especailly around GWANGHWAMUN area bring some Gothic and attractive aura for me. It seems like a KYOTO's feeling. I love nothern Seoul too
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Old December 16th, 2014, 12:52 AM   #692
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Agreed! Northern Seoul feels more intimate when you're walking around because the streets are narrower and most of the city's traditional areas (the palaces, hanok villages, universities) are in Gangbuk. I think that Gangnam is probably more impressive from a far, and of course it has its nice areas, but it's too spread out and flashy to be that great on the ground; it's like it's trying too hard to be cool, while paradoxically, the Koreanness of the northern part of the city makes it feel more honest and identifiable.

Anyway, I think the extra highways in Gangnam are a reflection both of the fact that it's less pedestrian-friendly and so more people drive there, and that the subway system isn't as comprehensive as Gangbuk; most of the lines there just go east-west, with no real center like there is in Jongno-gu and Gwanghwamun.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #693
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DAERIM skyscraper tall apartment project resume since stop 2006
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Old December 16th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #694
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Are those the ones in Tteukseom-dong near where the old Hyundai HQ proposal was? I thought those were dead for sure! Glad to see I'm wrong.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 04:28 PM   #695
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They are the 207m-172m Seoul Forest E-Convenient World in Ttukseom, yeah
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Old December 16th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #696
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http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/artic...apita-gdp-2018


though those two great country's economical range is much more powerful than skorea.
this mean per person consumption quantity will be more slightly higher in korean soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Are those the ones in Tteukseom-dong near where the old Hyundai HQ proposal was? I thought those were dead for sure! Glad to see I'm wrong.
right nearby hyundai

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Originally Posted by Seoul_Korea View Post
They are the 207m-172m Seoul Forest E-Convenient World in Ttukseom, yeah
right e convenient world they try to redesign inner apartment(from larger penthouse to much more smaller and normal residence ones)
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Old December 17th, 2014, 04:00 AM   #697
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though those two great country's economical range is much more powerful than skorea.
this mean per person consumption quantity will be more slightly higher in korean soon
Congratulations to South Korea. That's undoubtedly a great achievement.

The Koreans should look closely at Japan, though. Japan's economy is in real trouble and with Shinzo Abe reelected recently, I can't imagine it is going to improve anytime soon.

Korea may soon find itself in a similar situation as Japan. Unable to compete with the new, low cost behemoths.

Anyway, I live in hope that Japan can restart its economy and also that South Korea does not suffer the same fate as its eastern neighbour.
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Old December 17th, 2014, 04:20 AM   #698
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Well said. I'm sure that the rise in per-capita GDP will help to deliver many more beautiful skyscrapers to us, but unless the increase is spread among Koreans much more equally, and life becomes easier for anyone who isn't the son or daughter of a chaebol chairman, it will all be for nothing.

That kind of brings me to an unrelated question: what's going to happen to that land in Tteukseom that Hyundai was going to build their HQ on? Will it be sold to someone else to be developed, or is Hyundai going to keep what they have there?
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Old December 17th, 2014, 11:58 PM   #699
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That kind of brings me to an unrelated question: what's going to happen to that land in Tteukseom that Hyundai was going to build their HQ on? Will it be sold to someone else to be developed, or is Hyundai going to keep what they have there?

I have no idea.
that land still hyundai's own property. maybe they is going to wait new seoul mayor who much more rational person, then they can built some great landmark.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Ray View Post
Congratulations to South Korea. That's undoubtedly a great achievement.

The Koreans should look closely at Japan, though. Japan's economy is in real trouble and with Shinzo Abe reelected recently, I can't imagine it is going to improve anytime soon.

Korea may soon find itself in a similar situation as Japan. Unable to compete with the new, low cost behemoths.

Anyway, I live in hope that Japan can restart its economy and also that South Korea does not suffer the same fate as its eastern neighbour.

appreciated Sister Ray
absolutely agree with you.
I believe that korea japan must reconciliation each other.
Though most korean and some radical japanses and politician try to conflict neighbourhood relation.(we tremendous loss due to korea-japan conflict. in the case of economy and culture)

Your worry about korea's future is right. korea follow japan's past economy pathway. So at the moment japan's economy problem will be same problem in korea economy situation future.

So we must learn from japan's case
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Old December 20th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #700
inno4321
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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AMAZON make a new office in yoksamdong of seoul

in GS tower 12~13 fl about 500 employee accommodation
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