China's military build up.

[PrevaricationComplex]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Tom Clancy book SSN, hypthetical war between the US and Chinese navies over the Spratley islands where the Royal Navy is forced to pull the yankee ass out of the fire.

Just out of curiosity and because I don't read Clancy (I have taste), how exactly do we do that? seeing as we only have about 7 or so vessels the Americans would find useful for such an escapade? Namely the nuclear H/K's.

[LondonFox]

It's not what you've got, but how you use it

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by PrevaricationComplex

Just out of curiosity and because I don't read Clancy (I have taste), how exactly do we do that? seeing as we only have about 7 or so vessels the Americans would find useful for such an escapade? Namely the nuclear H/K's.

British torpedoes have a speed twice that of US torpedoes, Soviet/Chinese nuclear subs could actually outrun US torpedoes their so slow.

[Restless]

Wasn't SSN published back in 1997?

[Matthieu]

Toys:

http://www.defenceaviation.com/wp-co...0/12/j20_2.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/gr...10_05small.jpg

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by Restless

Wasn't SSN published back in 1997?

Yep just as it was beginning to filter through to the frontline after entering service in 94'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearfish_torpedo

US Torpedo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_48_torpedo

[Beta29471]

China will build four aircraft carriers
Posted:July 31,2011



This Japanese reporter also said that despite China's first aircraft carrier to sea was big news, certainly very concerned about the surrounding countries, but the 'Kuznetsov' was, after all, the transformation of old vessels training ship, they are more concerned about the situation of China's new generation aircraft carrier.

China's new generation aircraft carrier outside speculation for more variety. Reuters quoted sources as saying, 'Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard is building two aircraft carriers.' <<Manila Standard Today reported>> that China plans to build four aircraft carriers, and intends to use the 'coach -9' jet trainer for pilots taking off and landing training. ties Russia News said that China has started to build the first self-designed aircraft carrier fleet, according to preliminary information, will be aboard the aircraft carrier the size and 'Kuznetsov' was pretty. The report said by 2015 China will have two domestic medium-sized 4.8-6.4 ton conventionally powered aircraft carrier into the water, while between 2015 and 2020 will be recycled in two 93,000 t-class nuclear-powered carrier, which has a par with the large U.S. aircraft carrier ships, to ensure the safety of China's maritime lifeline Korea <<National News>> 28, reported the China's shipbuilding capabilities and more confidence reported that two aircraft carriers to China the use of nuclear propulsion, launched in 2015. The report also said that China will be the first aircraft carrier deployed in the Hainan Island, most likely, because not only near the South China Sea territorial disputes, and China can take to protect their oil routes.

China's efforts to dispel doubts about the outside world

Although China has said it does not mean the construction of aircraft carrier naval coastal defense strategy will shift, and has nothing to do with the current situation in the South China Sea, but there are still foreign media speculation, 'China's aircraft carrier threat.' Korea <<Busan News>> 28 that, with the China's first aircraft carrier fitted out, not only throughout the Asia-Pacific military confrontation could intensify, and countries may also launch an arms race which reported that the 'Kuznetsov' was put into use means that the Chinese navy's operational capacity to expand to the Pacific and Indian Ocean.

Source

[AdmiralAnthony]

I though the USS Cheyenne was the success story in that book? Sank a lot of vessels.

[WatcherZero]

Two Chinese fighter jets pursued a US spyplane over Taiwan., its the first time in a decade they have violated Taiwanese mainlands airspace.

[SamuraiBlue]

As UK sells old aircraft carriers, China buyers circle

(Reuters) - As it sells off its flagship aircraft carriers over a government website, Britain is finding enthusiastic interest from an unexpected group -- Chinese businessmen potentially keen enough to outbid any other rivals.

But some Western strategists suspect the real agenda might be more to do with Beijing's growing naval ambitions, that they might be stripped for construction secrets or simply pressed into the service of the People's Liberation Army Navy.

The Royal Navy decommissioned HMS Invincible and her sistership Ark Royal as part of a wider round of austerity measures, listing them for disposal alongside unused printer cartridges, old office furniture and outdated uniforms. Both ships attracted immediate interest from buyers wanting to sail them to China to be used as floating commercial venues.

Whilst some foreign warships purchased by Chinese businesses have genuinely been used as leisure centers and night clubs, others are believed to have entered military hands. Such worries may have already helped scotch one potential UK carrier purchase and could stymie another.

"It is very difficult to gauge what is going on here," said James Hardy, Asia Pacific editor of Jane's Defense Weekly. "The links between Chinese businessmen and the Communist Party are always somewhat ambiguous.

"The Chinese have a reputation for playing a long game, as well as for reverse engineering ... It is (also) possible that they could (aim to) refit Ark Royal as a helicopter carrier. Such a ship would certainly be a useful vessel in terms of power projection in the South China Sea and possibly against Taiwan."

China's Defense Ministry declined to comment, while the buyers have been keen to stress their independence from government. But experts say China has prior form.

Its first aircraft carrier, due to start sea trials in the coming weeks, started life as the Varyag, an unfinished Soviet warship lying in Ukraine. Chinese buyers bought her in the late 1990s, ostensibly to be used as a casino in Macau.

In reality, she spent years being refitted in naval dockyards and some suspect a similar fate could be in line for any purchased British ships.

Not only might a sale breach a de facto European arms embargo on China, it might also raise eyebrows in Washington DC and irritate other Asian powers already worried by Beijing's naval growth.

JUST A PLOY?

"The casino/entertainment center ploy is something offered by the Chinese since ... the 1980s," said Bud Cole, a former U.S. naval officer now lecturing at the National War College in Washington DC, pointing to the purchase of former Australian aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne, several Russian vessels and the Varyag.

"All were surveyed by Chinese ship builders and designers as fodder for an eventual Chinese-designed carrier ... I would expect the same for the ex-Brit carriers. I personally don't think they should sell."

But not everyone thinks it really matters.

Experts say it could still be years, perhaps well over a decade, until China overcomes early difficulties including engine problems to reliably operate the Varyag. Naval specialists are seen keen to learn whatever lessons they can, but are believed to be already heavily committed to the Soviet-style design.

"I can't see them switching horses in midstream and moving to an Ark Royal design," said Nigel Inkster, a Chinese-speaking former deputy chief of Britain's Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), now head of political risk and transnational threats at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies. "So it probably isn't a major strategic error to sell it to them."

But even if the Chinese buyers were being honest in their ultimate intentions of the ships, most intelligence and security experts said they would expect the ships to be given a thorough going over first by China's military.

"There is some merit in acquiring Ark Royal, a successful design, if you want to build your own carriers and only have a badly designed and frankly clapped out vessel like the Varyag to go on," said a London-based naval analyst, requesting anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

"There are limits to its value: all the sensitive kit such as sonar, radar and communications will be taken off. What you would do is get an insight into naval construction techniques."

OFFERING GOOD MONEY

But with China, and particularly its rich new elite, growing in self-confidence, some analysts suspect the primary appeal for business buyers is simply the kudos of owning a former Western warship and perhaps to curry official favor.

British-based Chinese businessman Lam kin-Bong told the South China Morning Post in January he was bidding 5 million pounds ($8.1 million) for Invincible to use the ship as an international school in a marina in Guangdong.

Britain's Ministry of Defense (MoD) refused to comment on individual bids, but naval experts say that figure was likely considerably higher than offers based on its scrap value. But Britain chose to sell the ship to breakers in NATO member Turkey instead, with experts and insiders saying potential military usage likely put ministers off the China option.

Lam could not be reached for comment, with staff at the Birmingham-based chain of restaurants he owns saying he and his family were traveling and impossible to contact. But his failure does not seem to have deterred others.

Earlier this month, Hong Kong-based investment firm Eagle Vantage Asset Management told Reuters it has put in an offer to buy Ark Royal to turn it into a floating showground.

Eagle Vantage, owned by tycoon Huang Guangyu who was jailed for 14 years in China on bribery and insider dealing charges, would not discuss what price it had offered. A spokesman said the company was wholly independent of China's government and that Guangyu himself was not directly involved in the deal.

An MoD spokesman said money alone might not be not enough. The offer period for Ark Royal had now closed, he said, and a decision would likely be reached in September.

Assorted other schemes for the ship's use have been floated in the British media, including mooring her in London Docklands for use as a commercial helipad for the 2012 Olympics and after.

"Obviously, the amount of money involved is an important issue," said the MoD spokesman, asking to remain unnamed in accordance with government policy. "But we also look at the business plan for what will be done with the ship once it is sold."

So Macau what another "Casino Boat"

[Chuffy Chuffnell]

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

China will build four aircraft carriers
Posted:July 31,2011



This Japanese reporter also said that despite China's first aircraft carrier to sea was big news, certainly very concerned about the surrounding countries, but the 'Kuznetsov' was, after all, the transformation of old vessels training ship, they are more concerned about the situation of China's new generation aircraft carrier.

China's new generation aircraft carrier outside speculation for more variety. Reuters quoted sources as saying, 'Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard is building two aircraft carriers.' <<Manila Standard Today reported>> that China plans to build four aircraft carriers, and intends to use the 'coach -9' jet trainer for pilots taking off and landing training. ties Russia News said that China has started to build the first self-designed aircraft carrier fleet, according to preliminary information, will be aboard the aircraft carrier the size and 'Kuznetsov' was pretty. The report said by 2015 China will have two domestic medium-sized 4.8-6.4 ton conventionally powered aircraft carrier into the water, while between 2015 and 2020 will be recycled in two 93,000 t-class nuclear-powered carrier, which has a par with the large U.S. aircraft carrier ships, to ensure the safety of China's maritime lifeline Korea <<National News>> 28, reported the China's shipbuilding capabilities and more confidence reported that two aircraft carriers to China the use of nuclear propulsion, launched in 2015. The report also said that China will be the first aircraft carrier deployed in the Hainan Island, most likely, because not only near the South China Sea territorial disputes, and China can take to protect their oil routes.

China's efforts to dispel doubts about the outside world

Although China has said it does not mean the construction of aircraft carrier naval coastal defense strategy will shift, and has nothing to do with the current situation in the South China Sea, but there are still foreign media speculation, 'China's aircraft carrier threat.' Korea <<Busan News>> 28 that, with the China's first aircraft carrier fitted out, not only throughout the Asia-Pacific military confrontation could intensify, and countries may also launch an arms race which reported that the 'Kuznetsov' was put into use means that the Chinese navy's operational capacity to expand to the Pacific and Indian Ocean.

Source

Why are you celebrating you Argie twit? China's new found military might will be felt far more in S America than in Europe! You couldn't take on the UK... how the FUCK would you take on China. Prepare to roll over.

[Beta29471]

Originally Posted by Chuffy Chuffnell

Why are you celebrating you Argie twit? China's new found military might will be felt far more in S America than in Europe! You couldn't take on the UK... how the FUCK would you take on China. Prepare to roll over.

The British is irrelevant already. They are too weak and they have problems to care about than their own armed forces. Britain is now only a small island. It has no true form of power projection. Britain's only aircraft carrier is only a light carrier, and is due to retire in a year or so, and until 2016 it has no aircraft carrier.

The Brits are just hiding under the U.S. powerful and decadent might. When they say jump the Brits jump, when they say suck my balls they swallow and when the yanks say go to Afghanistan they obey, simple as that.

It's true Italy and Brazil has surpassed the economy of the UK. Countries by GDP nominal in trillions USA 15.3. China.5.4. Japan 4.6. India 4.1 Germany 3.7. France 2.8. Italy 2.7. Brazil 2.3. UK 2.2. The US State of California 2.1 lol. The UK is around 9th in terms of World economies. Economies are measured in Gross Domestic Product. The UK will fall out of 10th place in 2014 after Russia, S-Korea and possibly Mexico surpasses you. True story look it up.

[RobitTV]

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

The British is irrelevant already. They are too weak and they have problems to care about than their own armed forces. Britain is now only a small island. It has no true form of power projection. Britain's only aircraft carrier is only a light carrier, and is due to retire in a year or so, and until 2016 it has no aircraft carrier.

The Brits are just hiding under the U.S. powerful and decadent might. When they say jump the Brits jump, when they say suck my balls they swallow and when the yanks say go to Afghanistan they obey, simple as that.

It's true Italy and Brazil has surpassed the economy of the UK. Countries by GDP nominal in trillions USA 15.3. China.5.4. Japan 4.6. India 4.1 Germany 3.7. France 2.8. Italy 2.7. Brazil 2.3. UK 2.2. The US State of California 2.1 lol. The UK is around 9th in terms of World economies. Economies are measured in Gross Domestic Product. The UK will fall out of 10th place in 2014 after Russia, S-Korea and possibly Mexico surpasses you. True story look it up.

Argentina couldn't invade the Faroe islands, you have no right to call us weak.

And argentina has no aircraft carrier, no nuke's, no anything. And we are building the world's most advanced carrier, it will be the biggest outside the US.

so dont tell us what you think, because its all bullshit.

Does argentina have The world's most advanced warships? or Nuclear weapons or The most advanced submarine's and the most advanced fighter jet's? No it doesen't because it cant afford any of them.

Britain is a great power, we are known through out the world, But argentina isn't it doesen't have anything to celebrate nor does it have a history.

How dare you come on this forum, and shout bullshit, While argentina couldn't win a war against 20 soldiers. give me strength....

[RobitTV]

Argentina's new submarine -

Looks powerful and big

[Matthieu]

Do we have another Godwin's law here that whatever thread is made it will end up in an Argentino-British fight?

[SO143]

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

The British is irrelevant already. They are too weak and they have problems to care about than their own armed forces.

Their armed forces are world's best trained and they always kick butts on the global scale.

Plus, their defense contractor is world's 1st or 2nd largest.

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

Britain is now only a small island.

It's size has not changed since it was founded in many centuries ago.

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

It has no true form of power projection.

2011 Global Military Power Index http://www.globalfirepower.com/ (1st smallest country in the list which ranked highest)

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

Britain's only aircraft carrier is only a light carrier, and is due to retire in a year or so, and until 2016 it has no aircraft carrier.

It has 4 nuclear submarines which can launch missiles to any part of the globe. Another 6 most advanced submarines are under construction and it has another 7 powerful submarines in service. Besides, according to "Anglo-French" military agreement UK can operate the French aircraft carrier if they need. Don't worry about it Royal Navy will get 2 "SupercarrierS" soon which will be fully equipped with stealth aircraft like F-35 Lightening ll (C class). Be prepared!!!

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

The Brits are just hiding under the U.S. powerful and decadent might.

They are closest allies and they have "Special-Relationship", Ohh you didn't know that?

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

When they say jump the Brits jump, when they say suck my balls they swallow and when the yanks say go to Afghanistan they obey, simple as that.

You should be banned from SSC for using this kind of foul language on public forums.

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

It's true Italy and Brazil has surpassed the economy of the UK.

Oh please, Italian economy is on the brink of collapse whose economy needs to be bailed out. Never heard of PIIGS?

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

Countries by GDP nominal in trillions USA 15.3. China.5.4. Japan 4.6. India 4.1 Germany 3.7. France 2.8. Italy 2.7. Brazil 2.3. UK 2.2.

GDP nominal of a country does not directly reflect to living standard, human development index, healthcare, welfare, and the actual wealth of citizens. Your list is just ignorant.

Originally Posted by AlfaBeta

The US State of California 2.1 lol. The UK is around 9th in terms of World economies. Economies are measured in Gross Domestic Product. The UK will fall out of 10th place in 2014 after Russia, S-Korea and possibly Mexico surpasses you. True story look it up.

You are boasting these BS on behalf of other countries.

[Matthieu]

Originally Posted by SO143

Don't worry about it Royal Navy will get 2 "SupercarrierS" .

Not to be pedantic but a supercarrier is 70,000 long tons, the QEII class will be 65,000. They're almost supercarriers and that's anyway more than what Argentina has.

[RobitTV]

Originally Posted by Matthieu

Do we have another Godwin's law here that whatever thread is made it will end up in an Argentino-British fight?

Argentina start's it, they will have since 1982

[RobitTV]

Originally Posted by Matthieu

Not to be pedantic but a supercarrier is 70,000 long tons, the QEII class will be 65,000. They're almost supercarriers and that's anymore more than what Argentina has.

, Since when did argentina have an aircraft carrier?

[Matthieu]

Originally Posted by RobitTV

, Since when did argentina have an aircraft carrier?

That's what I mean, even an Ocean class ship is more.