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Old September 4th, 2011, 04:55 PM   #181
Neverworld
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Kinda sad to see the bargain €1 ticket price go. Will the other tickets also increase in price (ticket for a day, 10 journeys etc.)?

I made good use of it when I was studying in Milan for a couple of months (before I got my ATM monthly subscription card).

In my opinion they should not only focus on increasing ticket price to save costs, but also on improving the network. I lived in an apartment next to a tram station. The tram had to cross one street to get to that station. The moment the tram opened its doors (and it always had to, as it was a university stop), the tram traffic light went green (or | in this case, if I remember correctly) and when the tram was unloaded it would be red again, staying so for two minutes. I could catch the tram when I was in my apartment and wanted to go and saw it at the stop, but that costs a lot of money.

Also, it helped generating those stockpiles of 5 trams in 5 minutes and then none for 20 which is quite common.

It's the same for the circular 90/91 line, good idea, separate roads but service is hampered by inefficient traffic lights. I once didn't want to take tram/metro from my place to Centrale as I usually did, but took the line 9 near station Porto Genova all the way to Centrale (my apartment was in the south) and it took very, very long.

With a bit of work they could decrease travel time (and thus save costs) a lot.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 10:34 PM   #182
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New tariffs.

Nessuna variazione per gli abbonamenti mensili e annuali.

Month ticket €30, year ticket €300, just like before. A very strange modification of prices.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 10:53 PM   #183
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Subscriptions will be raised later this year.

ATM should aim, on the short term, for AT LEAST a 37-40% fare box recovery rate (as of 2009, it was a meager 18%). Indeed, it was so low that some people were suggesting the costs of the ticket collection system and its enforcement* alone wouldn't be covered by fared if they didn't start raising fares.

*That calculation was a bit tricky because it included items ATM doens't pay for, like police interventions when un-ticketed passenger get violent or confrontational toward ticket inspectors etc.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 11:22 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverworld View Post
Kinda sad to see the bargain €1 ticket price go. Will the other tickets also increase in price (ticket for a day, 10 journeys etc.)?

I made good use of it when I was studying in Milan for a couple of months (before I got my ATM monthly subscription card).

In my opinion they should not only focus on increasing ticket price to save costs, but also on improving the network. I lived in an apartment next to a tram station. The tram had to cross one street to get to that station. The moment the tram opened its doors (and it always had to, as it was a university stop), the tram traffic light went green (or | in this case, if I remember correctly) and when the tram was unloaded it would be red again, staying so for two minutes. I could catch the tram when I was in my apartment and wanted to go and saw it at the stop, but that costs a lot of money.

Also, it helped generating those stockpiles of 5 trams in 5 minutes and then none for 20 which is quite common.

It's the same for the circular 90/91 line, good idea, separate roads but service is hampered by inefficient traffic lights. I once didn't want to take tram/metro from my place to Centrale as I usually did, but took the line 9 near station Porto Genova all the way to Centrale (my apartment was in the south) and it took very, very long.

With a bit of work they could decrease travel time (and thus save costs) a lot.
Traffic lights on many routes are predisposed to go green while a bus/tram is approaching. But ridiculously the past administrations didn't want to activate these devices.

Current one promised to activate and extend 'em, starting just from 90/91 circular line
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Old September 7th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #185
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An Italian forumer reported this interesting book about Milan's metro line 1 construction

Milan underground railway - 1959 - 1964

Some pics







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Old September 7th, 2011, 04:47 PM   #186
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The Duomo was so dirty at the time.

Nice pics.
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Old September 10th, 2011, 07:17 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Above all they should improve customer service. The way they sell you those magnetic cards is just pathetic. I had to wait over a month for it, everywhere else they are able to do it within 2 minutes.
this is completely true, pathetic is the right word. though I guess you've been kind of unlucky, generally they do it in 5 days-1week.. over a month sounds a bit unlikley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
New tariffs.

Nessuna variazione per gli abbonamenti mensili e annuali.

Month ticket €30, year ticket €300, just like before. A very strange modification of prices.
I don't think it's strange, at the beginning I was really opposing to this modification but now I think it'is fair. milan tickets are far cheaper compared to any other city, especially of its dimension but I agree with the idea to increase just the ticket and the daily/weekly cards prices and to keep the monthly/yearly fare the same.
In this way it's just the occasional or half-occasional traveller who is penalized and not the big majority of commuters, students or citizens who owns the monthly/yearly pass indeed
maybe when the whole network will be improved more people (milanese) will more easily accept a general increase of the fares, even the monthly/yearly ones.

By the way congratulations for this very rich thread, it's full of beautiful pictures and and very good notes.
Genius Loci is always very pleasent to read, especially about transports (and especially about the milano ones)
good job
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Last edited by blaise.; September 10th, 2011 at 07:30 AM.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #188
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It was in october. I blame the start of the semester at the universities...
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #189
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Urbanrail.net just published a map of Milan's tram web

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apteryx View Post
Su UrbanRail mappa aggiornata delle rete tranviaria milanese (c'č anche quella di torino)


versione estesa
>>> Here the full version
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #190
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I found a coupple of mistakes in some routes
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Old September 13th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #191
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Will the trams be removed after opening M5 between Zara and Bignami?
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Old September 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #192
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No.

Trams and metro will operate contemporarily.
Probably they're going to modify the route 31 not to have too superimposed services. But it's just a hypothesis.

In any case the tram tracks all along the Zara/Testi axis will keep operating
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Old September 14th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #193
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Chronology of Milan's urban tramway routes
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Old September 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #194
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Another Italian forumer reported the link at this website where you can find some interesting map http://sites.google.com/site/grandunionhome/Home/mappe

These ones are of Milan's tram and trolleybus lines (current and dismissed ones). Updated till Novemeber 8 2010

http://4769020422554012296-a-1802744...attredirects=0

Detail of the city center

http://4769020422554012296-a-1802744...attredirects=0
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Old September 14th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post

Another Italian forumer reported the link at this website where you can find some interesting map http://sites.google.com/site/grandunionhome/Home/mappe

These ones are of Milan's tram and trolleybus lines (current and dismissed ones). Updated till Novemeber 8 2010

http://4769020422554012296-a-1802744...attredirects=0

Detail of the city center

http://4769020422554012296-a-1802744...attredirects=0
An extract of the two maps

[IMG]http://i52.************/2i8xa4j.jpg[/IMG]

'Zooming in'
[IMG]http://i56.************/rbdxk7.jpg[/IMG]

The number of the dismissed tram tracks always amazes me

There is even this metro map, updated at February 2011

http://4769020422554012296-a-1802744...attredirects=0
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Old September 14th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #196
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History suburban tramways in lombardy
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Old September 14th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #197
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What a pity!
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Old September 14th, 2011, 08:50 PM   #198
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That history of the interurban tramways is just scary. What a waste to rip up that much rail infrastructure!
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Old September 15th, 2011, 11:16 AM   #199
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On Italian forum we were just talking about that map as I noticed that there are several tracks which are now railways. We found out that they actually are rail but the ratio of the map is the formal distinction between tramways and railways; in the first ones convoys run on sight while in the second ones the run is controlled by the signalling.

Then we supposed that many tracks of the map are railways without signalling. Once the signalling had been settled in they wiped out 'em from the map.

In any case the tracks all around Milan itself are old interurban tramways

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Last edited by GENIUS LOCI; September 15th, 2011 at 11:22 AM.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #200
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Probably the most known and 'beloved' dismissed interurban tramway is the so called Gamba de Legn (wooden leg in Milanese dialect, due to its waving 'lame' move)

A steam tram running from the city center to the town of Magenta in Western sorroundings







It was the last steam tramway to be dismissed (in 1957)

The depot in Milan (corso Vercelli)




The steam locos and the cars




Source http://www.mondotram.it/milano-gambadelegn/
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