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Old September 29th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #221
perasbro
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Hi!
Im new here. Glad to find some information about the trams in Milano.
I visited the City one week ago and saw some thing which bring up some questions:

Line 31: As I understand the trams will be working even after M5 is opened. I guess so after seeing stairs go down from almost all tram stops.

But, what is happening with the tram going to Garibaldi station?
Should thge tram come back?

-Per
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Old September 30th, 2011, 01:01 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perasbro View Post
Hi!
Im new here. Glad to find some information about the trams in Milano.
I visited the City one week ago and saw some thing which bring up some questions:

Line 31: As I understand the trams will be working even after M5 is opened. I guess so after seeing stairs go down from almost all tram stops.
Welcome to Skyscrapercity.

Unfortunately, the Cineselo tramway will operate as now, instead of being cut at the north M5 terminues.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 12:20 PM   #223
GENIUS LOCI
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Thes ones are some previous posts about that matter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A good example of bad planning is the tramway #31. It was recently (2007-2009) renovated and expanded to Cineselo Balsamo, and it got brand new Sirio trams. Problem? They are building M5 on the very same boulevard. Unnecessary duplication for most of the route. I hope they shorten the tramway once the subway is put into service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post

I hope not.

In the past they used to remove tram routes once they build a metro line on the same axis (they did the same thing more recently, for istance, in Torino dismissing the tram in Corso Francia).

Conceptually it is correct, but they noticed they can't front properly the 'very' local transport demand, and the bus is not that efficient.
Then in Milan the tram web is so much wide that is very 'flexible' and many axis are used for many lines and lines themselves could be redesigned (and it happens periodically) according to the needings.

I think at Fulvio Testi axis as one of the most important of these axis, and infact currently the lines running on it are 4

To cut the 31 couldn't be the right move; but to change the route (for istance turning to Centrale in viale Marche or so) could be an option to consider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The original plans for the M5 were...for a tramway, more or less on the same route of the line under construction. The short Garibaldi-Isola-Zara section was planned to be a tram tunnel, with the rest being newly built (San Siro-Garibaldi, Bignami-Cinisello) or upgraded (Zara-Bignami, opened since decades). That's why the M5 runs directly below an existing tram line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
In any case it is very difficult in Milan to plan a new metro line avoiding the overlap of a stretch with an existing tram line

Btw this is the scheme of tram line 31



Clearly visible the overlap with M5

Some pics of Lagosta-Cinisello tram line















http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/en/MM/...?contentId=984
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Old September 30th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #224
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Maybe the tram line 31 will operate from Cinisello to central station.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 01:04 PM   #225
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Let's talk a bit about railways

North of Milan (about 25 km, but still in the urban area) there is an old railway track now dismissed.
They planned to re-use it upgrading the whole track. The western branch upgrading between Seregno and Saronno is now u/c, the line will have two tracks (as now there is only one), will have new stations and near Saronno the route will be diverted to the South (there isn't space enough to widen the current dismissed viaduct) with a stretch and even an interchange station completely underground.

They're also planning to make at least an S line run on the 'new' infrastruture since 2013

Here some updates of the work in progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by _emy View Post



Monolite in cemento armato spinto sotto le 4 linee ferroviarie Milano-Varese all'altezza della stazione di Saronno Sud


Fermata N.5 Saronno Sud in galleria ferroviaria



Tratto interrato in frazione Introini

Qualche foto da 'Seveso Viva'!
https://picasaweb.google.com/sevesov...eregnoSaronno#
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Old October 5th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #226
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last week end ATM opened some depots to citizens (as it uses to do since several years two days every year).
This year ATM is 80 and opening days were well advertised so people participated in mass.

Here some pics of Teodosio depot by an Italian forumer

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIO'1 View Post
Allora, visto che nessuno dei nostri fotografi l’ha ancora fatto, metto qualcosa io:
Officine Teodosio, tra le ore 10,30 e le ore 12,00 di domenica
[IMG]http://i53.************/rcioeg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i53.************/28sykqc.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i53.************/6p3rsg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i55.************/ir3va1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i51.************/2dl8avd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i53.************/2jeprwy.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i53.************/o8tk55.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 6th, 2011, 04:35 AM   #227
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And once You have seen all the interesting exhibits, it's really a mess the Milan doesn't have a museum of public transport.
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Old October 6th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #228
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There is a section of Science and Technique Museum on that matter but it is mainly dedicated to railways



Definitely Milan deserves something better
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Old October 6th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #229
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ATM just showed some pics of the prototype of 4900 series renewal.

This tram is a revamping of the three cars tram series wich run on Milan's streets since the end of '70s



Some renders









http://www.02blog.it/post/8737/atm-i...uovo-tram-4900

The original version

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Old October 6th, 2011, 08:35 PM   #230
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And it would be very easy to make something "huge". Considering to what I've seen around Europe in fact of museums dedicated to local transport, there is really a "big black hole" for something more general: not only local, but local in comparison to the rest of the world. Showing what we've done, and what have done other cities.

And Milan has a couple of locations which could be very attractive only by themselves:
- Messina depot (in use, but impressive)
- Carminati Toselli (Fabbrica del Vapore)
- Baggio depot (in use, but can easily be dismissed)
- Casoretto depot (beneath Teodosio workshop)
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Old October 6th, 2011, 08:42 PM   #231
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Other pics of 4900 revamped

Quote:
Originally Posted by michyh87 View Post
http://milano.corriere.it/milano/not...41903572.shtml

Quote:
Il prototipo presentato al deposito Atm di via Teodosio
Il vecchio tram arancione cambia faccia «Più comodo e sicuro, con poca spesa»
Motore a risparmio energetico, interni ridisegnati, climatizzazione, migliore accessibilità ai disabili


MILANO - Un inedito trait d'union tra il tram storico e quello moderno grazie ad un radicale processo di ristrutturazione - in gergo «revamping» - sia interno che esterno, che ha interessato tutte le componenti del veicolo, tanto che si stenta quasi a riconoscere la forma squadrata del tram che, con la livrea arancione, circola a Milano dalla fine degli anni '70. È la nuova «4900», la vettura il cui prototipo è stato presentato oggi nel deposito Atm di Leoncavallo, il «numero zero» di un progetto che interessa 51 mezzi per un investimento di 50 milioni di euro. L'obiettivo, spiegano all'Atm, è riportare a nuova vita vetture storiche rendendole omogenee agli standard dei veicoli più moderni in termini di affidabilità, comfort e sicurezza. La motorizzazione garantisce minori consumi energetici e il recupero dell'energia in frenata, gli interni sono completamente ridisegnati e rinnovati con nuovi materiali, alla climatizzazione.

LE MIGLIORIE - Nuova l'accessibilità ai passeggeri con disabilità, che prima non era possibile, ma anche la cabina di guida con una rinnovata plancia di comando per il massimo comfort in termini di ergonomicità e manovrabilità del mezzo e spazio alle nuove tecnologie di guida in radiofrequenza. Per gli esterni, poche ma sostanziali modifiche trasformano l'estetica e la funzionalità del mezzo: dalla livrea che reinterpreta il «Giallo Milano» delle vetture tranviarie in chiave moderna, al «muso» e la «coda» che diventano più fluidi e arrotondati donando all'intero tram un aspetto più dinamico consentendo una migliore visibilità al conducente e ai passeggeri. AnsaldoBreda, che si è aggiudicata la gara indetta da Atm, consegnerà il primo tram pronto per i test in circolazione per la fine di novembre per i successivi collaudi e l'approvazione del Ministero dei Trasporti. Parallelamente proseguirà la consegna di due vetture al mese per completare la fornitura nel 2013.

IL RISPARMIO - «Un ulteriore passo avanti - si legge in una nota di Atm - nel piano di rinnovo della flotta che vede, in parallelo, l'acquisto di nuove vetture e la revisione di quelle storiche. Insieme ai nuovi 68 tram Sirietto, sono già 95 le storiche "Carrelli" degli anni '30 completamente rinnovate all'interno e all'esterno, che proseguirà fino ad arrivare al completo restauro di 150 vetture storiche simbolo di Milano». «La flotta di tram Atm - sottolinea l'assessore alla Mobilità, Ambiente, Arredo urbano e Verde, Pierfrancesco Maran - si arricchisce di 50 vetture rinnovate e ammodernate che offriranno ai passeggeri maggiore comfort e sicurezza, mantenendo l'aspetto che le ha rese uniche e storiche per la nostra città. Un intervento importante, anche dal punto di vista economico che sottolinea l'impegno dell'azienda e del Comune nello sviluppo e nel miglioramento del servizio». «La vettura presentata oggi - spiega Elio Catania, presidente di Atm - rappresenta il primo traguardo del progetto ambizioso intrapreso lo scorso anno: offrire sui mezzi storici gli standard dei veicoli più moderni riportandoli a nuova vita. Un modo per investire sulla flotta tranviaria in linea con un attento utilizzo delle risorse pubbliche, considerato che un nuovo tram costa circa 2,5miloni, ne abbiamo spesi 50 per 51 mezzi. È un successo su tre fronti: un ulteriore passo in avanti per il piano di ammodernamento dei mezzi Atm, un segnale forte dell'amore che ci lega ai nostri tram e, infine, un bel messaggio per l'economia in questo particolare momento storico». (fonte: Ansa)


06 ottobre 2011 18:01



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Old October 6th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
And it would be very easy to make something "huge". Considering to what I've seen around Europe in fact of museums dedicated to local transport, there is really a "big black hole" for something more general: not only local, but local in comparison to the rest of the world. Showing what we've done, and what have done other cities.

And Milan has a couple of locations which could be very attractive only by themselves:
- Messina depot (in use, but impressive)
- Carminati Toselli (Fabbrica del Vapore)
- Baggio depot (in use, but can easily be dismissed)
- Casoretto depot (beneath Teodosio workshop)
The Fabbrica del Vapore is just close to Messina depot (that is really impressive and huge; I don't think they're gonna dismissing it) but there are many activities now hosted in its areas now.
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Old October 6th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #233
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Yes I know, but is the so called "cathedral" also in use? They've restored it, but a couple of monthes ago it was empty (mainly).
It's the main work hall we're the rail vehicles were assembled, a perfect location.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #234
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That 4900 redesign is pretty ugly (at least on the exterior). I like the original design much more.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 11:21 PM   #235
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I do agree, the front looks like a savanna tram to me. On the other hand the rear looks much thinner and light, alltogether pretty nice.

Genius did they install brand new electronic devices as well on board ?
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Old October 10th, 2011, 12:54 PM   #236
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Do you mean stuff as displays or something?

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Old October 10th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #237
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Also I basically referred to driving assistance devices or air conditioning.

Anyway in this pic I can also see a brand new alarm system. Very nice job indeed, it was worth the money !
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Old October 11th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post

Do you mean stuff as displays or something?



Hello. It is my first post in this thread and I wanted to say that I advice that seat wagons are prepared for quick clean (nothing under them, they are fixed to the sides of the wagon, not to the floor).
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Old October 18th, 2011, 12:41 PM   #239
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September, updates on Garibaldi/Isola stretch

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebametro View Post
Eliing sei sempre gentilissima con le tue foto stupende, ma andiamo a vedere un po come procedono sul 1° tratto

ecco un aggiornamento sul tronchino M5-M2 e un pezzo di tunnel verso la stazione isola



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FINALMENTE LA STAZIONE ISOLA!!!!!!!



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da notare in fondo alla foto l'inizio della doppia canna verso ZARA




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tronchino di collegamento con M2



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Old October 20th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #240
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Why was this thread renamed?

It is about Milan metro 5 construction, not on Milan's public transport in general

There is another thread in this section for that http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1407004

If evenctually mods think it's better to have just one thread on Milan they could merge this one with the general discussion.
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