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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #341
Woonsocket54
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There are some lines in NY where they split on both ends



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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #342
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But NYC is a particular case in which physical lines don't match services run over them (+ express track on many sectors)
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apteryx View Post
@Suburbanist, yes there's even worst, like the "northern line" in London, but also the lines 2/7, 4/5 and 3/6 in Munich works the same way.

I don't know if every train departing from Abbiategrasso goes to the same terminus (for example cologno) or if they are alternated.

There's a fifth terminus on line MM2, is Gobba, where a train aout of three stops in low traffic hours.
I've lived in Milano But I moved out in 2009 before the never-ending extension of MM2 had finished.

There is a difference, though: Milano uses MM2 denomination for the whole thing. Maybe they should create MM 2-a and 2-b to indicate two different service patterns. They could also do the same with MM1 though that is a classical Y.

More than once I remember helping some clueless tourist that wanted to take the Rho branch to the fairgrounds but end up on the train I was on the Bisceglie branch. So if they used different codes for each service, it would help especially those that are from out of town (and telling then to catch train MM 1-B is easier than MM 1 to Rho.

Sometimes I think, on the specific case of MM 1, they should convert the Bisceglie branch to a new line ending in Pagano, building a second level on that station and then passengers from that branch would transfer to more frequent trains on the streamlined MM 1 (Rho-Sesto)
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #344
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You're probably right, that's why I did this amazing () map with the lines separated for service.
With this representation, similar to the one of Munich posted above, Milan will have soon 7 metro lines (plus 10/11 suburban lines), not bad

click to enlarge.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #345
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Saronno Sud new underground train station for S9 service

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Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Foto della nuova stazione sotterranea di Saronno Sud, sulla S9 attivata ieri.



Ecco una pianta presa dal forum Ferrovie On Line, i nuovi binari sotterranei (in curva) sottopassano la linea Milano-Saronno.

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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #346
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I want to report a very interesting thread of Italian forum about the history of Milan public transport.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1553988

You can find a lot of very very interesting stuff. Every sort of urban and extra urban tram, maps, metro maps, old metro lines under construction, railways, bus, trolleys, old infrastructures projects, etc.

You could even find out that Milan infrastructures system changed a lot during the decades and centuries, building and dismantling whole tram web and railways web.

I want to post here these two drawns showing Loreto interchange between M1 and M2 metro lines directly from that thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picard66 View Post
Giusto per ricordare di cosa si stesse parlando...





L'allargamento fu fatto solo nel tratto a sud, per cui l'effetto "salmone" non fu eliminato del tutto...
I think it's very interesting because the second pic shows a junction between the two lines. To allow M2 trains which needed manteinance to reach Precotto M1 depot (in the first phase just inner M2 stretches were open, while the depots were forecasted out of the city in Gorgonzola and Cologno branches)

Now it is rarely used, I think, over all to allow special convoys for line manteinance to change metro line in case of need
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #347
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On the other side of the Caiazzo station there's a similar junction to line M3 at Repubblica station.

But the metro network doesn't have a connection with the national railway network anymore.
Until the 1990s there was a long siding track from Sesto San Giovanni railway station to Precotto metro depot.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #348
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Sorry for the rubbish picture quality, it's from a visit to Milan I made in May, but I'd love to see an updated for extensions and high quality version of this map if possible:



And also the equally crazy one for Turin with which it made an interesting comparison:



Just for fun, the inside of Centrale:



...and the other kind of public transport in Milan, my plane home at Malpensa...

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Old January 5th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
On the other side of the Caiazzo station there's a similar junction to line M3 at Repubblica station.

This one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picard66 View Post
Da una pubblicazione ATM del 1989
Raccordo M2-M3


Quote:
But the metro network doesn't have a connection with the national railway network anymore.
Until the 1990s there was a long siding track from Sesto San Giovanni railway station to Precotto metro depot.
As shown in this maps
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Originally Posted by Picard66 View Post
Dalla CTC 1965
Raccordo fra deposito Precotto M1 e Ferrovia
(purtoppo incompleto. I binari proseguivano verso est lungo Via Edison e curvavano, presumibilmente lungo l'attuale Montanari, per immettersi nello scalo di Sesto San Giovanni a nord di Via Mazzini.





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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:31 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom
Sorry for the rubbish picture quality, it's from a visit to Milan I made in May, but I'd love to see an updated for extensions and high quality version of this map if possible:



And also the equally crazy one for Turin with which it made an interesting comparison:


You can find the map of Turin here (pdf), from this page.

But you can't find the map of Milan on-line
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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #351
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Cassina de' Pecchi, built in 1968 as a bridge-station over the Naviglio Martesana.

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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Cassina de' Pecchi, built in 1968 as a bridge-station over the Naviglio Martesana.
OH my God, it should undergo heavy restoration
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Old January 5th, 2013, 02:56 PM   #353
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Here the Milan's map (unofficial)

http://www.msrmilano.com/images/Schema_rete_dic2012.pdf
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Old January 5th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr205063 View Post
But he was looking for the surface network map.
You can find it only for the central district
Here and here.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apteryx View Post
You're probably right, that's why I did this amazing () map with the lines separated for service.
With this representation, similar to the one of Munich posted above, Milan will have soon 7 metro lines (plus 10/11 suburban lines), not bad

click to enlarge.
very interesting solution
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #356
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Didn't Milan have many canals years ago, before they were filled in? Does that make metro construction hard in the city considering underground water?

I've been trying to find a map of Milan's old canals but I can't find one anywhere.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 04:40 PM   #357
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Yes, the Navigli, you can find a map here.

And here a lot of old maps of Milan.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #358
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Waterways of Milan
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=563347

Old maps of Milan
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=582240
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Old January 18th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
... Does that make metro construction hard in the city considering underground water?
Definitely! Non properly because of the canals, but due the relatively high ground water. Line 1 (red) was build almost easily from surface with "cut&cover" methods and less water presence, but almost with line 3 (yellow) it was necessary to freeze the soil during construction and to make it waterproof.

Do to the fact that the groundwater level is steadily rising since 40 years, also line 2 (green) has now troubles: it was not projected to be waterproof, because the level was very deep, and now it has "wet feets". Improvements in this matter are damned expensive, but have to be done and will be done.

Anyway water is not a big problem: it's predictable and building manners are sufficiently evolved to get rid of the problem. But I'm not sure what will happen with aging of the construction: I hope that PVC will last really hundreds of year before it crumbles
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #360
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Fantastic! Thanks for the links, it looks like Milan really did have a huge canal network (which reminds me a bit of Manchester or Birmingham). Why were they filled in? I imagine Milan would be a different city if they still existed.
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