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Old July 4th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #121
GENIUS LOCI
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I don't think that this is the reason (then there are easier soils to dig than Milan's, then to build tunnels has nothing to do with earthquakes otherwise in Italy wouldn't be any or so; at contrary it's probably the country with the largest amount of tunnels)

No, the reason is someway 'historical' (of Milan's transportation history).
Infact the first 'overground' track is the one between Cimiano and Gorgonzola (almost) on the old track of the suburban tram of Tranvie dell'Adda (once Milan had dozens of suburban tram lines to connect the region, unfortunately dismissed - just two are still in use - mostly in '50s and '60s in favour of bus lines)-
In that route the tram started from Piazzale Sire Raul (just out of Leoncavallo depot), run aside viale Palmanova, as the metro does nowaday, and then aside Padana Superiore, a suburban road, once far less inhurbated than today, till Vaprio d'Adda, on Adda river, about 40km far from Milan city center-

During the construction of M2 in '60s, while they were digging the tunnel in Milan city center they decided to 'renew' that branch of Tranvie dell'Adda, thinking to use it for the metro once the tunnel would have reached Cimiano-
The route is different from the original one, some hundred meters North, and with viaducts, trenches and not grade intersections.
The trams run over this infrastructure for a while, till M2 tunnel reached viale Palmanova (end of '60s, begin of '70s) when it had been used by metro till Gorgonzola.
At the begginning Gorgonzola was used as interchange station between metro and trams (infact the station has four tracks) as the tram service among Gorgonzola and Vaprio d'Adda (on the historical track aside the suburban road) was mantained.
And the trams used the same depot used by the metro trains in Gorgonzola.

After few years the tram was dismissed and in '80s metro was extended till Gessate.

Always in '80s they built even Cologno branch (in viaduct as you can see)
In Cologno run another branch of tranvie dell'Adda (bit apart from metro rout in this case too).
This branch run till Vimercate, about 30km far from Milan city center (an extension project forecasts M2 to reach Vimercate as well), and once M2 entered service even on that route Tranvie dell'Adda tram didn't exist anymore.

-----
About Assago branch (in service since February), to build it above ground aside the highway route was the most logical and cheaper way
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Old July 4th, 2011, 11:46 PM   #122
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Here some pics and maps about Tranvie dell'Adda

-Here Sire Raul terminus when just Vimercate branch was still in service



-A tram in Gorgonzola station

[img]http://i35.************/mw2lg4.jpg[/img]
source Giovanni Cornolò, Fuori Porta in Tram, Ermanno Alberto Editore

-The Tranvie Celeri dell'Adda (Tram Expressway) enter service

[img]http://i34.************/epn66v.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i37.************/302qbs1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i38.************/2445yit.jpg[/img]
source: Francesco Ogliari, Dall'Omnibus alla Metropolitana, Cavallotti Editori - Milano

http://forum.milanotrasporti.org/vie...=164&start=375

-The old and the new route




I add this map of suburban tramways in '50s



In Eastern part you can see the Tranvie dell'Adda branch (there is a mistake, it's not Vapiro but Vaprio) and it indicates even the new 'express tramway' (opened in '68) now used by the metro
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Old July 5th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
once Milan had dozens of suburban tram lines to connect the region, unfortunately dismissed - just two are still in use - mostly in '50s and '60s in favour of bus lines
About the two survived suburban tramlines: they are Milano-Desio and Milano-Limbiate

Unlike Milan urban trams, which are monodirectional vehicles, they are bi-directional vehicles.


Here the route and some pics of Milano-Desio (line 178)













http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...3Desio_tramway

Milano-Limbiate (line 179)









http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...mbiate_tramway
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Old July 5th, 2011, 01:57 PM   #124
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For both the lines a refurbishment is forecasted with extensions, new rolling stock, redesign of the tracks.

Here the route of the Milano-Desio refurbished and extended to Seregno (interchanging with railways station)



http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/en/MM/...?contentId=986



A pdf with more details http://www.zinnisindaco.it/diario/pr...sso_080407.pdf

Here the project of the refurbishment of Milano-Limbiate







http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/en/MM/...?contentId=989
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Old July 5th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #125
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Some videos

Milano-Limbiate


by surbmal

Milano-Desio


by molivanet
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Old July 5th, 2011, 07:28 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
The subway network of ​​Milan, backbone of the local public transport network, consists of three lines, with a total area of 83.5 km, making it the largest in Italy
According to MM website the current metro network has a total length of 88 km with 94 stations.

Quote:
Milan's metro system currently consists of three lines, 94 stations and a total length of 88 km (54.68 miles).
Out of the current 150 networks, it is the 30th largest in the world and ranks among the top-10 in out of 40 in Europe.
It is the longest system in Italy and its total track length exceeds the sum of all track lengths of the remaining five lines from other Italian cities.
“Il metro”, as it is known by the people of Milan, serves the region of the Municipality, extending over 182 km2 ( 70.3 sq. miles), which has a high population density (1.3 million inhabitants with over 7,000 inhabitants/km2 or 18,500 inh/sq.mi). In addition, it serves the residents of the suburbs, home to more than 4.5 million, covering a conurbation of approximately 2,250 km2 (869 sq. miles).
About 80 per cent of the network’s length or 66 km (41.06 miles) and 75 stations are within the Milan Municipality and it extends over approximately 20 per cent of the region and 25 per cent of the total urban area.
Together with surface lines and suburban railways, the Milan Metro helps win over to the public transport almost 50 per cent of all urban travel.
http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/MM/metropolitane_milano

Currently 13 more km are u/c (M5 which will open a first section within 2011) and in next months 17 km more will start to be built (M4 + M1 extension to Monza Bettola)

This is the list of forecasted extension of metro network

[IMG]http://i56.************/29kv2it.jpg[/IMG]
http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/en/MM/...?contentId=926

For a total length of 60.5 km of extension, bringing the metro web total length to almost 150 km

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Old July 5th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Argh... this map sucks and got some mistakes

This is more accurate


http://www.urbanfile.it/index.asp?ID=3&SID=502

HD version
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Old July 5th, 2011, 08:09 PM   #128
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Slightly off-topic, but anyway:

Quote:
It is the longest system in Italy and its total track length exceeds the sum of all track lengths of the remaining five lines from other Italian cities.
Which is the 5th city? I can think of Napoli, Roma, Genova and Torino as cities having some form of subway. Do they count the Catania stub as a subway then?
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Old July 5th, 2011, 08:36 PM   #129
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Yup, I think they do.

Anyway, with or without it the total length is almost the same

I'm kidding; the short Catania metro is now building an extension

EDIT
Anyway now I see there is a mistake as they wrote 'remaining five lines ' and not webs.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #130
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A good example of bad planning is the tramway #31. It was recently (2007-2009) renovated and expanded to Cineselo Balsamo, and it got brand new Sirio trams. Problem? They are building M5 on the very same boulevard. Unnecessary duplication for most of the route. I hope they shorten the tramway once the subway is put into service.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #131
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I hope not.

In the past they used to remove tram routes once they build a metro line on the same axis (they did the same thing more recently, for istance, in Torino dismissing the tram in Corso Francia).

Conceptually it is correct, but they noticed they can't front properly the 'very' local transport demand, and the bus is not that efficient.
Then in Milan the tram web is so much wide that is very 'flexible' and many axis are used for many lines and lines themselves could be redesigned (and it happens periodically) according to the needings.

I think at Fulvio Testi axis as one of the most important of these axis, and infact currently the lines running on it are 4

To cut the 31 couldn't be the right move; but to change the route (for istance turning to Centrale in viale Marche or so) could be an option to consider
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Old July 6th, 2011, 01:57 AM   #132
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The original plans for the M5 were...for a tramway, more or less on the same route of the line under construction. The short Garibaldi-Isola-Zara section was planned to be a tram tunnel, with the rest being newly built (San Siro-Garibaldi, Bignami-Cinisello) or upgraded (Zara-Bignami, opened since decades). That's why the M5 runs directly below an existing tram line.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #133
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In any case it is very difficult in Milan to plan a new metro line avoiding the overlap of a stretch with an existing tram line

Btw this is the scheme of tram line 31



Clearly visible the overlap with M5

Some pics of Lagosta-Cinisello tram line















http://87.248.52.211/pub/page/en/MM/...?contentId=984
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Old July 6th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #134
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They should cut route #31 to the point where it intersects the new M5, making it shorter. So people coming to/from Cineselo change for the subway, which is faster because it will have half of the tram stops. The tram stops too often.

This tramway along V. Fluvio Testi has a good quality in terms of tracks and design, but it fails miserably on one aspect: its stops are placed badly in regard of the surrounding traffic and intersecting streets/traffic lights. Traffic light synchronization doesn't seem to exist, and trams stops right before a traffic light. As all crossing have traffic lights, this reduces the speed of both the tramway and the important fast thoroughfare that follows it.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #135
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Some videos of some stations of Passante Ferroviario (an underground tunnel running in inner city built for S-lines service) taken on board a train


Porta Garibaldi


by reddy84

Repubblica


by reddy84

Porta Venezia


by reddy84

Dateo


by reddy84

Porta Vittoria


by reddy84
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Old July 7th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #136
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A courious 'performance' at Porta Venezia mezzanine level

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Old July 7th, 2011, 06:40 PM   #137
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by garedeshimbashi
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Old July 7th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #138
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The train is almost empty, which is not quite unusual in S-trains...
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Old July 7th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #139
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I think it was not in rush hours (infact the train composition has 3 cars, while in rush hours they usually have 5 or 7)

S lines system, even if on Passante has good frequencies with 5/6 minutes all day long, is mainly used by commuters in the metro area and very few people use it to travel within inner Milan, even if fare and tickets are integrated with ATM (Milan transport authority) ones.
I think it is due even to a lack of comunication
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Old July 8th, 2011, 05:08 AM   #140
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There is no reason, other than users' laziness, for the stations in the Passante be not heavily used as subway lines. Combined with the overground sector, it offers a faster connection to Milano Rogoredo than by regular subway. Dateo and Porta Vittoria are stations placed in otherwise areas not previously before served by any fast tram or subway line.
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