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Old July 8th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #141
GENIUS LOCI
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I don't think laziness is the reason.

Many people in Milan don't know what Passante is, how S-lines work, that the system (and the fares) are integrated, that in the Passante the trains frequency is comparable to the metro ones. S lines and Passante are way better known by commuters living in the metro than by Milan's inhabitants

Look: this is the official (ugly) metro map



Does the rail network seem to be integrated and working like a metro? I dont' think so


Look how the RER lines are in a Paris metro map



or S-bahn in Berlin



With different modality, but even a tourist who don't know the two metro systems understand immediatly they're lines integrated with the metro.

On Milan's map what do you understand?

And that's just one aspect of the lack of information: the true problem is that there is not only a transportation authority, then the S-lines have nothing to do with Atm (which some how hide 'em in its maps)
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Old July 8th, 2011, 01:43 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Look how the RER lines are in a Paris metro map
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/images/...aris/metro.jpg
Wow this map is over 15 years old.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #143
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Yup... I know: I put the first map I found. It was just to point out how communication on urban transport should work
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Old July 8th, 2011, 03:53 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
And that's just one aspect of the lack of information: the true problem is that there is not only a transportation authority, then the S-lines have nothing to do with Atm (which some how hide 'em in its maps)
The Passante is also used by medium distance commuter trains, or at least supposed to be used that way, isn't it? I read somewhere that now there are trains from Malpensa airport going to Milano Rogoredo all the way. So the Passante and its stations belongs to Trenitalia. But that shouldn't be a matter of improper communication to the user.


A major problem, as I see, is that without previous knowledge there are no maps in ATM network showing how many fare zones ticket one should buy when travelling outside the limits of municipality. There are those U + (x) fares, which include all of Milano + certain x number of zones. There are other tickets that don't cover all of Milano, but just the periphery near the point of entry in the muncipality. But it is hard to find maps showing where the zones begin and end, and what areas are covered. So it is quite easy to get fined on the subway if one rides away from Milano without the proper ticket.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #145
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Yup: I think one of the main deficiencies of the system is the communication.

I think that Atm communication sucks, but Trenitalia and le Nord communication is even worse.

I have to say, anyway, that recently Atm tried to improve the communication: I liked the efforts to make metro signage a bit more standardized and clear (reminds me Paris metro one, which I consider one of the best).
Not perfect, but way better than previously and I think this way is the right direction.









On the other hand contemporarily they made gigantic mistakes as for istance this incomprehensible map of bus/tram network

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Old July 8th, 2011, 10:20 PM   #146
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Do you think more people are going to use the S-Trains in the near future?
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Old July 9th, 2011, 03:27 PM   #147
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Definitely yes.
each year number of passengers grows.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Definitely yes.
each year number of passengers grows.
Do you have some statistics about it? I mean daily and/or yearly ridership of Linee S.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 08:13 PM   #149
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And more pictures from within the stations pls.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkTheWorld View Post
And more pictures from within the stations pls.
Some pictures here
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Old July 11th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #151
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In this map of Passante I found in the link you provided there is not Lancetti station



A correct scheme with current S lines running in the Passante

[IMG]http://i55.************/288vc4x.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.msrmilano.com/images/PassanteFerroviario.pdf

source msrmilano

Lancetti station

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Old July 11th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Do you have some statistics about it? I mean daily and/or yearly ridership of Linee S.
I was looking for more specifical data, but I couldn't find 'em.

I found many sources stating in last 2 years regional railways passengers number rised of 15%
I assume mostly because of Milan S lines


Main source of these data I think is Trenord (the new regional railways company born by the merging of Trenitalia and LeNord)

http://www.trenord.it/media/18134/br...renord_web.pdf

That's the railway network of Trenord

[IMG]http://i56.************/33uya2d.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 11th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #153
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I think the communication in stations isn't that bad at all. It's not as if Milan would have any seriously complex hub stations. Nevertheless, I found it particularly hard to find my way at Duomo station.
What I really missed regurarly were maps indicating the location of bus bays and tram stops at larger statinos (e. g. Cadorna, Repubblica, Porta Venezia, etc.).
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Old July 11th, 2011, 10:37 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
I was looking for more specifical data, but I couldn't find 'em.

I found many sources stating in last 2 years regional railways passengers number rised of 15%
I assume mostly because of Milan S lines
Thank you, any way.
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Old July 12th, 2011, 04:34 AM   #155
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I forget to say this earlier, but a thread for Milan's mass transit was long overdue IMO.
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Old July 12th, 2011, 11:45 AM   #156
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There is a thread regarding M5 construction, maybe something (forgotten) on the tram network and many threads on S lines (forgotten as well)
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Old July 12th, 2011, 12:44 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkTheWorld View Post
And more pictures from within the stations pls.
Metro stations or railways stations?

Oh well: then I'll begin with this metro/rail interchange

Affori Nord

The metro station and the rail station enter service at the end of March.

Metro is M3 extension from Maciachini to Comasina (opened in March) with the opening of 4 new stations: Dergano, Affori Centro, Affori FN (interchange with rail, S2-S4) and Comasina (interchange with suburban tramline n° 179).

The existing railways station (owned by leNord) of Affori was dismissed and a new station few hundreds meters North was built to interchange directly with the metro

Here the plan to show you how the interchange works (they built even a car tunnel to underpass the rail line)






http://www.urbanfile.it/index.asp?ID=3&SID=87

A report of the opening day (with a meeting of Milanese forumers) by Tonybild

Quote:
Originally Posted by TONYBILD View Post
M3 STATIONS














DERGANO M3




FN AFFORI RAIL STATION

















M3 EXIT TO FN AFFORI RAIL STATION



The rail station from a new pedestrian overpass


The old FNM Affori station now dismissed
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Last edited by GENIUS LOCI; July 12th, 2011 at 01:15 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #158
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Quote:
Maciachini
I speak Italian in a basic level and I realized, the pronounciation for this station name is something like 'Machakkini'. There was a case I analized an information sign and heard some young girls nerby saying 'Massiachini'.
I was annoyed: Is my Italian so poor? And then I listened to the girls and heard they're saying 'Vamos' and 'linea tres' and everything was clear for me :-D
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Old July 12th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post


I speak Italian in a basic level and I realized, the pronounciation for this station name is something like 'Machakkini'.
Unlike English in Italian 'ch' and 'gh' followed by the vowels 'i' and 'e' sound hard like 'k' and 'g' of garden for istance.
While without 'h' the pronunciation is soft like ch in church and like 'j'

Quote:
There was a case I analized an information sign and heard some young girls nerby saying 'Massiachini'.
I was annoyed: Is my Italian so poor? And then I listened to the girls and heard they're saying 'Vamos' and 'linea tres' and everything was clear for me :-D
There are plenty of Latin Americans in Milan; anyway she could be even a Spanish tourist
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Old July 12th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #160
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Anyway now the terminus is Comasina to facilitate the pronunciation for non-Italian speakers
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