D8 | Citylights (42 x4 floors)

[wees]

Originally Posted by jt88

still thinking ... difficult decision since the 7 units are at Blk 90 (all blocked by Blk 80) and 1 unit on #14 at Blk 86 (too close to the junction)

Hi jt88,

You could specify your approximate requirements here, and perhaps other forummers might be able to suggest alternatives.

[CT]

[QUOTE=Maverick713;11541427]Unreleased 200+ ? I thought the URA data already revealed only about 153 units left and someone heard from the sales staff that about 60 are left in the towers and 3 left in the townhouses?

oops paisay...ya... wees mentioned the exact figures earlier. My memory stayed at the 200+ 6 mths ago, it's really moved fast since then... Looks like jt88 has missed it liao, prices have gone so high .

[Maverick713]

Originally Posted by cmwong456

If same price with icon, think i will choose icon, better location for resale, more makan place nearby. anyone agree ?

The problem with Icon is that it is within the CBD where there is whole day ERP. Imagine having to pay ERP so that you can get home everyday. Most Singaporeans have this psychology of not wanting to pay the government more money than necessary if they can help it.

Icon should still be more expensive than Citylights, I think. I was quoted about $1.2 million for a 2 bedroom unit at Icon whereas a similar one at Citylights is about half the price. Icon's maintenance fees also don't cover parking. You still have to pay extra monthly fees (I believe > $120) for a parking lot at Icon but for Citylights, parking is given at no extra costs.

As for food, the Lavender vicinity has 24-hours makan at the Long House Kopitiam and the Lavender Food Centre. The latter has one of the best wanton mee in Singapore and you see long queues forming everyday. In the past year, several new eateries have also mushroomed in nearby Kitchener Complex.

Going Malaysia but don't want to drive? Transtar Premium coaches pick/drop travellers daily next to Citylights' entrance. Icon has nothing like that.

[Maverick713]

Originally Posted by jt88

still thinking ... difficult decision since the 7 units are at Blk 90 (all blocked by Blk 80) and 1 unit on #14 at Blk 86 (too close to the junction)

It's a trade-off between traffic noise at the junction versus a slightly blocked view. Traffic noise may be minimal as cars usually slow down at busy junctions. Blk 90 enjoys a city view whereas Blk 86 sees the Kallang bay better.

[jt88]

Originally Posted by wees

Hi jt88,

You could specify your approximate requirements here, and perhaps other forummers might be able to suggest alternatives.

well I guess, my options are now limited to subsale units at Citylights (but progressive payments puts me off if not invest in other new dev. on deferred payment (ie. One North area)

[Maverick713]

I thought Citylights offers deferred payment?

[CT]

Originally Posted by Maverick713

I thought Citylights offers deferred payment?

jt88 was probably talking about subsales which will not be given the deffered payment option.

[nav14]

Originally Posted by jt88

well I guess, my options are now limited to subsale units at Citylights (but progressive payments puts me off if not invest in other new dev. on deferred payment (ie. One North area)

Some developers like UOL do extend the deferred payment scheme to sub-sale units as well. You could check with the developer of Citylights if they are willing to do so.
However at the end of the day you will end up paying almost the same amount whether it is deferred or progressive. If you like the place go for it. In Citylights case, you will only need to pay for a few months since it's TOP should be quite near. This too you could negotiate with the bank to pay only the interest portion only until TOP.

[jt88]

Originally Posted by nav14

Some developers like UOL do extend the deferred payment scheme to sub-sale units as well. You could check with the developer of Citylights if they are willing to do so.

Hi all points noted with thanks! yup i was referring to subsale units only offers progressive payments. and i have spoken to the agent who is now chking on it.

Originally Posted by nav14

However at the end of the day you will end up paying almost the same amount whether it is deferred or progressive. If you like the place go for it. In Citylights case, you will only need to pay for a few months since it's TOP should be quite near.

TOP is ard early 2008 which is abt one year later
I am currently servicing a progressive payment on another studio apt, so timing does make a difference.

Originally Posted by nav14

This too you could negotiate with the bank to pay only the interest portion only until TOP.

mmmm.. sounds like a plan! thks!!

[Maverick713]

Citylights on the left. Neighbouring Southbank site on the right. A Kallang view both neighbours would share ...

[arthur]

nice view!

[nav14]

Originally Posted by jt88

Hi all points noted with thanks! yup i was referring to subsale units only offers progressive payments. and i have spoken to the agent who is now chking on it.



TOP is ard early 2008 which is abt one year later
I am currently servicing a progressive payment on another studio apt, so timing does make a difference.



mmmm.. sounds like a plan! thks!!

Looking at the progress of the condo, I think it will go TOP before the end of this year. Which means from the date the payments kick in 2-3 months later (assuming you buy now), you will have to make monthly payments for about 6-7 mths.
Seems like you are buying it for investment. If you are in for very short term (1-2 yrs) then buying 99yrs is ok. However if you intend to hold it longer then you will be better off getting a freehold. In the longer run a freehold will hold its value better than 99yr regardless of location. . Today you find the new prime 99yr condos appreciating at the same level or even higher than freehold. However, when the dust finally settles down, those who are unable to load off their 99 yr condos at a profit may find that they would have been better off getting a freehold. All the Sentosa and Marina Bay 99 yrs condos could be breaking records today and even exceeding in value as compared to luxury Orchard freehold properties, but I am sure in 10 years it will be a different story altogether and you will be able to get the same Sail or MBR or One Shenton at 60% the price of a 10 year old luxury Orchard Rd condo.

If you want to get a studio for a budget of less than 500k, why not get one at the freehold City Square Res. No doubt it is located at Little India and Sunday crowd can be uncomfortable, but I am sure the rental yield will be the same or better than Citylights. You can still get a freehold 570sq ft studio for about 420k - which is cheaper than the 99yr Citylights.

[CT]

Originally Posted by nav14

In the longer run a freehold will hold its value better than 99yr regardless of location.

I share the same views that freehold will hold better in long run, but it's still subject to location and other conditions.
Take my friend's eg. she was deciding between a freehold condo in the East nearer Changi or a leasehold in Tg Rhu. 3 yrs later today, she's sold it at a 50k loss. Meanwhile with the upcoming IR and all, that project which still had many vacant units before IR plans were out, has increased in its value so unbelievably. You know, I was one of the many friends who advised her to buy a freehold rather than a leasehold with the same reasons u've said ...
So...location is still very important, be it freehold or leasehold. It's also very important that a buyer be clear with his/her objective in buying a property.

[Maverick713]

Originally Posted by CT

I share the same views that freehold will hold better in long run, but it's still subject to location and other conditions.
Take my friend's eg. she was deciding between a freehold condo in the East nearer Changi or a leasehold in Tg Rhu. 3 yrs later today, she's sold it at a 50k loss. Meanwhile with the upcoming IR and all, that project which still had many vacant units before IR plans were out, has increased in its value so unbelievably. You know, I was one of the many friends who advised her to buy a freehold rather than a leasehold with the same reasons u've said ...
So...location is still very important, be it freehold or leasehold. It's also very important that a buyer be clear with his/her objective in buying a property.

You are absolutely right. Location and other conditions are key. There was a Straits Times article about a study showing that developments with outstanding or iconic design or situated in good locations seems to retain its value much better than condos with neither attributes regardless of freehold or leasehold.

My boss bought a FREEHOLD condo in Jurong Kecil for $1 million back in 1997/8. Today it is worth no more than $600K+. My brother-in-law bought his FREEHOLD condo in Hume Avenue at nearly $800K around 2000 and sold it last year for almost $150K loss to move overseas for a new posting. Thus, having a freehold property is no guarantee against price erosion. If it is freehold bungalow land, then things might be different .....

[vasive]

Hi everyone,

Just joined. I have been a keen follower of several threads in SkyscraperCity. I want to commend all the active forumers. I have learnt a lot from your comments and insights, particularly those with personal experiences with property investment.

Here's my first comment on the debate over which is better - Freehold or Leasehold. I would only suggest three criteria to consider, and consider very seriously: (1) Location; (2) Location; and (3) Location.

In today's property climate, neither matters. In the past, having a property for 999 years is something one can pass on to the next generation or thereafter. Now, we pass on the property to the next buyer.

Thanks and best regards,
vasive

[wees]

hi vasive,

welcome to the forum.

[nav14]

Originally Posted by vasive

Hi everyone,

Just joined. I have been a keen follower of several threads in SkyscraperCity. I want to commend all the active forumers. I have learnt a lot from your comments and insights, particularly those with personal experiences with property investment.

Here's my first comment on the debate over which is better - Freehold or Leasehold. I would only suggest three criteria to consider, and consider very seriously: (1) Location; (2) Location; and (3) Location.

In today's property climate, neither matters. In the past, having a property for 999 years is something one can pass on to the next generation or thereafter. Now, we pass on the property to the next buyer.

Thanks and best regards,
vasive

Hi

Yes location is the most important factor.

However, assume you have 2 condos built next to each other by the same developer and the same quailty in a prime location. One is 99 yrs and the other one is freehold. After 10 yrs which one will hold its value better. In 10 yrs time will the 99yrs condo have risen by the same value or dropped by the same quantum as its neighbouring freehold condo?

[infinity88]

Hi, I am new here. I have been enjoying this thread for a month now and I must say I have really benefited a lot from the postings here. Keep the postings coming! Guys!

[infinity88]

Originally Posted by nav14

Hi

Yes location is the most important factor.

However, assume you have 2 condos built next to each other by the same developer and the same quailty in a prime location. One is 99 yrs and the other one is freehold. After 10 yrs which one will hold its value better. In 10 yrs time will the 99yrs condo have risen by the same value or dropped by the same quantum as its neighbouring freehold condo?

Of course, the answer to the above scenario is clear. But in reality, such scenario does not happen all the time. Can anyone of you guys identify such projects in Singapore?

I guess there are many factors that will determine the price of a condo. It could be the tenure of land, the location, the facing of the units, proximity to MRT station, whether it is near the beach, etc, etc.

There is also a general perception of the public on the property prices. Way back in 1996/97, when there was a panic perception that the property would become so expensive that if one did not buy a private property then (whether free or lease hold), he/she would never own one in his/her lifetime. So they would buy at "any" price that was set by the developer hence the price kept going up.

[nav14]

Originally Posted by infinity88

Of course, the answer to the above scenario is clear. But in reality, such scenario does not happen all the time. Can anyone of you guys identify such projects in Singapore?

I guess there are many factors that will determine the price of a condo. It could be the tenure of land, the location, the facing of the units, proximity to MRT station, whether it is near the beach, etc, etc.

There is also a general perception of the public on the property prices. Way back in 1996/97, when there was a panic perception that the property would become so expensive that if one did not buy a private property then (whether free or lease hold), he/she would never own one in his/her lifetime. So they would buy at "any" price that was set by the developer hence the price kept going up.

Look at Grangeford and Horizon View (or Towers) located at Grange road and surrounded by freehold condos. Go and check the caveats dating back 1 yr ago (the latest prices have gone up due to enbloc potential/talk)and compare the prices to the neighbouring freehold units.

The most expensive penthouse at MBR(99 yr) was sold for 3400psf which is slightly higher than the that sold at St Regis. I am sure in 10 years time the value of the MBR will be at least 20% lesser than St Regis even though both may fetch the same rents.