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Old February 1st, 2006, 06:55 PM   #481
Kai Tak
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Originally Posted by AFL
Jetblue doesnt serve LAX?...i saw Jetblue A320 made emergency landing in LAX in the news
They serve Long Beach Airport, not LAX. They did their emergency landing there because the runways are longer, and it would inconvenience the most people.
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Old February 4th, 2006, 05:58 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
^ Why shallow? It strikes me as being abundantly true! Are you denying that the two are fierce competitors? Or that KL is trying very hard to catch up with Singapore? If the opening of these two budget terminals, perhaps the only dedicated budget terminals in the world, in neighbouring cities, and within just 20 days of each other, is not evidence of an almost petty level of competitive rivalry, then what is?
dude you're soooo immature! this is not freakin high school!
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Old February 4th, 2006, 06:03 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
But it is competitive! The article is honest journalism.
yes KL and Singapore are competitive but please don't downplay KL as being inferior than Singapore....both cities are great and it's cool to be in a healthy competition and I honestly think despite Singapore being an awesome city..it is tho a bit overrated.
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Old February 4th, 2006, 01:11 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
^ KL seems to copy Singapore and tries to excel in the same areas. And yes, for now at least, the jealousy is more likely to be from Kuala Lumpur towards Singapore. Singapore is richer, better planned, and a more important centre for international business. It's generally a more attractive and successful city. That's not to dismiss KL however. KL has certainly made huge and often succesful strides in a its bid to catch up and is undoubtedly a much more serious competitor to Singapore now than it was 10 years ago. However Singapore remains ahead and, until Kuala Lumpur catches up, it will envy Singapore rather than the reverse. The third competitor is Bangkok which has an advantage of scale over the other two. In terms of traffic volumes Bangkok aviation already exceeds Singapore and Kuala Lumpur even before the new airport opens. However Singapore and Kuala Lumpur definitely have an advantage in terms of urban transport infrastructure and living standards. Bangkok remains a chaotic, messy, ugly metropolis with appalling pollution and traffic congestion. It's a fun town though.
i think it's not fair to downplay KLIA and malaysian budget aviation in general. in fact, S'pore is the copycat here...after AirAsia got the ball rolling. after all, Changi (or S'pore to be precise) is trying hard to catch up on KLIA in the budget aviation sector.
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Old February 4th, 2006, 02:00 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeigh
dude you're soooo immature! this is not freakin high school!
Don't be ridiculous. It's obviously a competitive situation and pointing out the fact is in no way "immature". I suppose you regard the lead article as "immature" too right?
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Old February 4th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aen
i think it's not fair to downplay KLIA and malaysian budget aviation in general. in fact, S'pore is the copycat here...after AirAsia got the ball rolling. after all, Changi (or S'pore to be precise) is trying hard to catch up on KLIA in the budget aviation sector.
Yes KL may be the leader for budget aviation (though Singapore was barely behind!!) but Singapore realised the importance of aviation to its economy decades ago and in building its glossy new airport, and generally trying to boost its aviation sector, it is very much Kuala Lumpur that has been playing catch up ball. KL has tried to catch up with Singapore in finance too.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 02:36 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Yes KL may be the leader for budget aviation (though Singapore was barely behind!!) but Singapore realised the importance of aviation to its economy decades ago and in building its glossy new airport, and generally trying to boost its aviation sector, it is very much Kuala Lumpur that has been playing catch up ball. KL has tried to catch up with Singapore in finance too.
At least Airasia is the answer to thousands of Malaysians who thought they never ever fly can now actually spend a handful of their pocket money travelling all around Malaysia and overseas
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Old February 5th, 2006, 03:58 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairul
been looking for the renderings for ages...but from my judgement of the terminal..reminds me of a warehouse or a big hypermarket..


does it look like a RM100 million project to u guys?
anyway..cant wait for the terminal to be open..i make sure i'll be there to take the photos of it on the first day..
i don't understand that...

i mean it's obviously cheaply done.. but it doesn't mean it has to look shit... i guess it's just a deliberate attempt to differentiate the main terminal from the budget terminal and make it look like nothing more than a metal shed.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 08:19 AM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Yes KL may be the leader for budget aviation (though Singapore was barely behind!!) but Singapore realised the importance of aviation to its economy decades ago and in building its glossy new airport, and generally trying to boost its aviation sector, it is very much Kuala Lumpur that has been playing catch up ball. KL has tried to catch up with Singapore in finance too.
sorry for being harsh, but there's no way S'pore can catch up with KL in budget aviation...simply because it lacks all the key ingredients. to be a strong low cost hub, you'll need domestic flilght sectors or loose cross border agreement like Europe. With countries in Asia closely guarding their borders ... i doubt budget aviation in S'pore will flourish as much as what ppl have predicted. Just look at the present situation...Valuair sold off, Jet Star needed to be merged with its parent company to be able to survive, Tiger kept mum on its financial results. to put things in a nutshell, llc in s'pore has shrunk over the years rather and having a growth.

so monkey, i'm not bashing s'pore here, but we just have to look at the reality. S'pore has grown to it's limit now leaving very less or maybe none for this tiny republic scale up to. i'm not denying that s'pore has the competitive edge in the region but do not downplay other neighbouring countries because they are catching up really fast. so when it comes to lcc boom, i'd say it's going to happen in countries like china, india, indonesia....but definately not S'pore.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 02:30 PM   #490
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^ Jetstar, Tiger, and Valuair didn't even exist a few years ago. The merger between Jetstar and Valuair reflects patterns of consolidation in Europe (Easyjet bought Go and Ryanair bought Buzz). You are right that the restrictions on aviation in SE Asia make the situation more difficult than in the EU but I don't think budget aviation in Singapore is about to go out of business. Singapore remains the international business hub for SE Asia so demand will remain strong. Its domestic population may not be large but they are rich and can afford to travel regularly. And Singapore does have somewhere to grow. It can get richer and more populous. Lee Kuan Yew wants to expand Singapore's population to 8 million.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 06:58 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
^ Jetstar, Tiger, and Valuair didn't even exist a few years ago. The merger between Jetstar and Valuair reflects patterns of consolidation in Europe (Easyjet bought Go and Ryanair bought Buzz). You are right that the restrictions on aviation in SE Asia make the situation more difficult than in the EU but I don't think budget aviation in Singapore is about to go out of business. Singapore remains the international business hub for SE Asia so demand will remain strong. Its domestic population may not be large but they are rich and can afford to travel regularly. And Singapore does have somewhere to grow. It can get richer and more populous. Lee Kuan Yew wants to expand Singapore's population to 8 million.
The matter of fact is that Air Asia is the largest, the only listed, the only profitable budget carrier in South East Asia and in Asia. Monkey, You bring up and compare consolidation from a european perspective of Ryanair and Easyjet, but these 2 companies are sucessful and profitable, whilst the same cannot be said for Jetstar, Valuair or Tiger which are far from the same level of success.

Budget air travel is not only at an infantile stage in Singapore vis-a-vis Malaysia, its not even anywhere close and seriously lags behind Malaysia, the numbers that Air Asia churns out, the consistent large profits and along side the momentum of its incredible growth, the sheer success, leave any Singaporean budget rival behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Yes KL may be the leader for budget aviation (though Singapore was barely behind!!)
Yes, the Singaporean equivalent is FAR FAR behind, not "barely" as you say but FAR behind the numbers speak for themselves and not only is it far behind, with the sheer incredible growth of the Air Asia group which is adding a brand new A320 every month till well over 2012 and see's Air Asia with a confirmed order of a whopping new 100 planes from Airbus, will only add and continue to broaden the distance between any of its Singaporean rivals.

From what I gather the Malaysian Budget terminal is initially expected to recieve well over 4million passengers, from a capacity of 10 million passengers, those initial numbers are actually double the total capacity of the Singaporean counterpart budget terminal, of only which we can only guess what its initial passenger numbers would be, with only 1 airline (Tiger Airways) having signed up to use the terminal. Mind you, Tiger Airways has yet to declare a profit and is said to be flying planes a quarter full to some of its asian destinations.

The bottom line is this, Budget Airline travel has yet to take off in Singapore the same way it has in Malaysia and with the current success and growth of Air Asia, will only provide greater distance and leave its Singaporean counterparts far far behind, regardless of Singapore's success in finance or LKY's ambitions for an 8 million population as you have so mentioned, your points monkey, are irrelavant and fall far from current realities and their trends within the budget airline sector of these 2 countries.
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Last edited by Subangite; February 5th, 2006 at 07:12 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 07:19 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subangite
The matter of fact is that Air Asia is the largest, the only listed, the only profitable budget carrier in South East Asia and in Asia. Monkey, You bring up and compare consolidation from a european perspective of Ryanair and Easyjet, but these 2 companies are sucessful and profitable, whilst the same cannot be said for Jetstar, Valuair or Tiger which are far from the same level of success.

Budget air travel is not only at an infantile stage in Singapore vis-a-vis Malaysia, its not even anywhere close and seriously lags behind Malaysia, the numbers that Air Asia churns out, the consistent large profits and along side the momentum of its incredible growth, the sheer success, leave any Singaporean budget rival behind.

Yes, the Singaporean equivalent is FAR FAR behind, not "barely" as you say but FAR behind the numbers speak for themselves and not only is it far behind, with the sheer incredible growth of the Air Asia group which is adding a brand new A320 every month till well over 2012 and see's Air Asia with a confirmed order of a whopping new 100 planes from Airbus, will only add and continue to broaden the distance between any of its Singaporean rivals.

From what I gather the Malaysian Budget terminal is initially expected to recieve well over 4million passengers, from a capacity of 10 million passengers, those initial numbers are actually double the total capacity of the Singaporean counterpart budget terminal, of only which we can only guess what its initial passenger numbers would be, with only 1 airline (Tiger Airways) having signed up to use the terminal. Mind you, Tiger Airways has yet to declare a profit and is said to be flying planes a quarter full to some of its asian destinations.

The bottom line is this, Budget Airline travel has yet to take off in Singapore the same way it has in Malaysia and with the current success and growth of Air Asia, will only provide greater distance and leave its Singaporean counterparts far far behind, regardless of Singapore's success in finance or LKY's ambitions for an 8 million population as you have so mentioned, your points monkey, are irrelavant and fall far from current realities and their trends within the budget airline sector of these 2 countries.
Ridiculous. The mere mention that Kuala Lumpur and Singapore are competitive, and that KL is trying to catch up (both of which are bloody obvious!), and I get Malaysians calling me names, reducing the argument to budget airlines (flattering for KL), and now long lecturing spiels insisting ad-naseum that AirAsia is the biggest and best blah blah blah.... Pathetic!
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Old February 5th, 2006, 07:36 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
^ KL seems to copy Singapore and tries to excel in the same areas. And yes, for now at least, the jealousy is more likely to be from Kuala Lumpur towards Singapore.
Such a Singaporecentric point of view. You are blinded and oblivious to the fact that Budget Airline sector, Budget terminals is a case of Singapore copying Malaysia!

As mentioned by Hkskyline
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Budget aviation in Asia started in Malaysia with AirAsia. Then others tried to copy that model and catch up to AirAsia. Until now results are mixed, yet AirAsia is still profitable and revenues are growing very quickly!
Isn't this the case of Singapore copying Malaysia?

What purpose is there for Singapore Changi to support a budget airline sector, when its not profitable, not successful? Well other than to copy Malaysia ofcourse. :P The reason why there is no need for Changi to follow this path can be reflected by other major airline hubs in the world, look at London Heathrow, Frankfurt or even Hong Kong these airports are sticking to what the serve best, that is the major airlines. Why is Singapore bothering in the first place when there aren't any tangible similarities with the Malaysian budget sector, the growth rates, the success of budget airlines is in Malaysia and not with its Singaporean counterparts.
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Last edited by Subangite; February 5th, 2006 at 08:05 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
^ KL seems to copy Singapore and tries to excel in the same areas. And yes, for now at least, the jealousy is more likely to be from Kuala Lumpur towards Singapore. Singapore is richer, better planned, and a more important centre for international business. It's generally a more attractive and successful city. That's not to dismiss KL however. KL has certainly made huge and often succesful strides in a its bid to catch up and is undoubtedly a much more serious competitor to Singapore now than it was 10 years ago. However Singapore remains ahead and, until Kuala Lumpur catches up, it will envy Singapore rather than the reverse. The third competitor is Bangkok which has an advantage of scale over the other two. In terms of traffic volumes Bangkok aviation already exceeds Singapore and Kuala Lumpur even before the new airport opens. However Singapore and Kuala Lumpur definitely have an advantage in terms of urban transport infrastructure and living standards. Bangkok remains a chaotic, messy, ugly metropolis with appalling pollution and traffic congestion. It's a fun town though.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 07:54 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Ridiculous. The mere mention that Kuala Lumpur and Singapore are competitive, and that KL is trying to catch up (both of which are bloody obvious!), and I get Malaysians calling me names, reducing the argument to budget airlines (flattering for KL), and now long lecturing spiels insisting ad-naseum that AirAsia is the biggest and best blah blah blah.... Pathetic!
Its not insisting the biggest blah blah ad nauseam my friend, its a mere FACT which I'd like to reiterate. That matter of fact at hand, is that the budget airline scene in Singapore is pathetic. It is pathetic only after comparing and contrasting to its Malaysian counterpart. The figures are there!! The numbers are there. When has a Singaporean budget airline ever produced a profit? It even pales in comparison to the size in passengers carried, it pales in its growth and at its current state of unprofitablility, only seems unsustainable.

You accuse me of reducing the argument to budget airlines (flattering for KL), well this budget terminal is to serve the budget aviation market, thus budget airlines is it not? At least I don't come out and resort with stupid nonsensical statements about LKY's 8 million population plans, quoting Singapore's success in finance, or claiming KL jealousy, which has nothing to do with Budget terminals other than represent your misguided prideful nature ad nauseam, reflecting no constuctive points to add.

Folks here have a point, that being that your points are not only irrelavent, its true, they're immature. Time to grow up monkey boy.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 08:00 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by nazrey
Jangan peduli orang macam ni ...puas hati dia kata macam tu!
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Old February 5th, 2006, 08:23 PM   #497
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AirAsia Traffic Statistics for FY 2005 - July to June
Malaysia - 4,414,069
Thailand - 1,603,594
Indonesia - 271,518 (began operations in January 2005)
Total - 6,289,181

Annual Report 2005 Revenue and Profit Figures
Note : These should be for the Malaysian sector only.
2005 Revenue - 666.0 RM million (vs. 2004 - 392.7)
Net Income - 111.6 RM million (vs. 2004 - 49.1)
Net Cash Flow - 254 RM million (vs. 2004 - 26.0)
RPK (million) - 4,881
ASK (million) - 6,525
Load Factor - 75%
Fleet Size - 35 as of 25 December 2005 (33 x Boeing 737-300 + 2 Airbus 320) for entire Group

Meanwhile, the Singaporean LCCs are very reluctant to disclose information about their traffic numbers and financials. Perhaps it's because they are unlisted so they don't need to release all that information publically. The industry is consolidating though. Valuair had some difficulties with its business model and merged with Jetstar Asia, while Qantas wasn't too happy about Jetstar Asia's problems with flying to China.



Tiger Airways

Fleet Size - 4 x Airbus A320
Flew its 500,000th passenger ahead of its first anniversary in September 2005.
As a private company, Tiger Airways is not required to disclose financial figures.



Jetstar Asia / Valuair

Fleet Size - 5 @ Jetstar Asia + 4 @ Valuair = 9
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Old February 5th, 2006, 08:49 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Ridiculous. The mere mention that Kuala Lumpur and Singapore are competitive, and that KL is trying to catch up (both of which are bloody obvious!), and I get Malaysians calling me names, reducing the argument to budget airlines (flattering for KL), and now long lecturing spiels insisting ad-naseum that AirAsia is the biggest and best blah blah blah.... Pathetic!
I agree with you that KL and Singapore are both very competitive in various sectors and KL is still playing catch up to S'pore in a most areas but you are being ignorant by saying that KL is trying to copy Singapore in the budget airline sector. It is obvious that AirAsia inspired the budget airline industry throughout Asia including Singapore and AirAsia is far more sucessful than it's Singaporean rivals. It doesn't make sense when you said KL is copying Singapore when it comes to the budget airline sector. Btw, why should we be jealous of Singapore? Both KL and Singapore are just competitive. Period.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 09:04 PM   #499
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Thanks for those set of numbers hkskyline, well done . However becareful though, monkey might call you "Ridiculous", accuse you of "long lecturing spiels insisting ad-naseum that AirAsia is the biggest and best blah", eventhough you're supporting this fact with provided fleet and passenger figures for a comparison of Air Asia and its Singaporean counterparts.

jlshyang, your post was the point I was trying to make.

Well before Air Asia was listed, when it was still private, they had released their financials eventhough there was no legal requirement to do so. Private companies sometimes post financials, especially if they've been doing well.

Anyways, excerpts from The Shipping Times, August 2nd 2005

The LCCs in Singapore haven't been as fortunate, and their earnings are reportedly dismal, raising questions whether LCCs in the region will continue to face turbulence or - worse - fade away like some of the failed LCCs in the US and Europe.'

Indeed, other than Air-Asia, none of the region's dozen or so budget carriers have revealed their revenue, load numbers or breakeven points. But given the circumstances in which they are operating, it doesn't take a genius to guess what these might be.

Tiger is said to be filling less than a quarter of its planes on its flights from Singapore to Hatyai in southern Thailand

As far as we know, only AirAsia is profitable, while the rest struggle as industry overcapacity, low fares and high jet fuel prices taking their toll. AirAsia has benefited from its early start in the no-frills market and its smart hedging programme said Shukor Yusof, aviation writer at Standard & Poor's.
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Old February 5th, 2006, 09:32 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlshyang
It doesn't make sense when you said KL is copying Singapore when it comes to the budget airline sector. Btw, why should we be jealous of Singapore?
If anything, I think from the behaviour and the posts by monkey, the jealousy seems to be on the Singaporean side, or the very least jealousy derived from Singaporean perspective. But why be jealous of Malaysian budget aviation success, of all things, this jealousy seems vaguely pathetic and quite sad.

Its petty, does this "jealousy" stem from a lack of something? Why exhibit such petty jealousy over such a thing? Perhaps an inadequacy? Its a reflection of an inflated size complex, you have yours smaller, jealous that someone else has it bigger? Well monkey boy, I wish I can tell you size doesn't matter, but apparently it does.

But, lets recap what Nazrey has said in malay, btw he's not Malaysian he's from Thai,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazrey
Jangan peduli orang macam ni ...puas hati dia kata macam tu!
basically saying not to give much notice to you monkey boy, especially with your comments, which particularly reek of an inferiority complex, "oh no! Malaysia is playing catch up, copying from Singapore!!"? quite pathetic, especially the context in which this thread is about, It seems that the copying you claim is the other way around!

Nevermind, stick with your the petty jealousy, the inadequacy and inferiority complex of the FACT that there's a vastly more successful budget aviation sector in Malaysia, hell, even hide behind your allusions and preconceived notions of superiority. I've stated the facts, hkskyline has come up with the figures to support, jlshyang repeated the same point, its up to you.
Perhaps you're gonna enlighten us with the great mentor minister LKY's grand plan of having 8 million people or lecture all of us with Singapores might in finance, as you have done before. Perhaps from your simple intellectual point, might in finance, 8 million population translates to success in the budget aviation sector, oblivious to reality at hand.
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Last edited by Subangite; February 5th, 2006 at 10:18 PM.
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