daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 28th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #21
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yet people do travel in China. On Beijing-Tianjin, about 10 million people per year used to travel - 8 millions by slow train, 2 millions by bus (the said World Bank source). When high speed railway was introduced, about half passengers remained on both these services - 1 million by bus, 4 millions by slow train - and besides the 5 millions who transferred to high speed line, 20 million high speed rail passengers were either new created demand or shifted from private cars and minibuses - the combined demand expanded from 10 to 30 millions by adding the HSR. On Changchun-Jilin, about 6 million people per year used to travel - 4 millions by slow train, 2 millions by bus. When HSR was added, buses basically shut down, all passengers shifted to HSR - amd just one quarter of slow train passengers did. The other 7 million HSR passengers were a new created demand, and adding HSR raised the total demand from 6 millions to 13 millions.

As you pointed out, people do not undertake daily commute in China over 100 km distances, because whether by bus or HSR train, the prices like 25 or 32 yuan are too much to pay twice a day. Then who are the people who travel in massive numbers and buy those 55 yuan tickets Beijing-Tianjin?

Roughly which prices CAN the Chinese workers afford to pay twice a day?
I'm saying the working classes cannot afford HSR commutes, which is far different from people are not using the HSR period.

Also, HSR has taken away a lot of airplane customers. When the Guangzhou-Wuhan HSR opened, air services were decimated. I think the airplane factor plays a far larger role than shifting traffic from buses and minibuses.

While the average working class cannot afford daily HSR commutes, they can afford a ride once in a while. Given the cities have massive populations, even a small percentage of "once-in-a-while" travellers becomes a large number.

Try applying Western commuter fares on Western incomes, and use the same percentage on the average Chinese urbanite's income. You will then see how small that number is for China (keep in mind urban bus fares are usually 1-2 yuan and even subway fare cap out around 5 yuan).
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 28th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #22
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
While the average working class cannot afford daily HSR commutes, they can afford a ride once in a while. Given the cities have massive populations, even a small percentage of "once-in-a-while" travellers becomes a large number.
If the Chinese would use trains as often as the Swiss do the Chinese railways would have to transport about 40 times as many people every day as they do now. Since the Chinese are rapidly getting richer it's not such a bad thing that the railways are gearing up for when the that time comes...
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #23
sekelsenmat
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,139
Likes (Received): 50

Some western examples:

Dresden - Germany
Monatenskarte 50€ see http://www.dvb.de/de/Tickets-Tarife/...ht/Zeitkarten/
I suppose that this price covers buses, the tram network (strassen bahn) and the commuter rail (S-Bahn) in the inner ring area of the city
If someone earns 1000€ netto (in a working class job) per month he will use 5% of his income for transport
If someone earns 2500€ netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 2% of his income for transport

Wroclaw - Poland
If you buys the semestral tickets the final price is 78zl per month for buses + the large tram network (which does the majority of the transport) + night buses + express buses
If someone earns 1000zl netto (in a working class job) per month he will use 8% of his income for transport.
If someone earns 3000zl netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 2,5% of his income for transport

Lisbon - Portugal
Monthly pass of Metro+Buses+Commuter Rail in an area covering almost the entire city costs 35€
If someone earns 1000€ netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 3,5% of his income for transport.

In Germany the transport costs a lot more, but salaries are similarly higher. You can consider that 4zl = 1 euro

So, someone please send in the numbers for China =)
__________________
True Democracy for Android - A realistic political simulation game where you are the premier/president and guides your country competing against other political parties =)

My blog about trains, politics and urbanism.
sekelsenmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #24
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Also, HSR has taken away a lot of airplane customers. When the Guangzhou-Wuhan HSR opened, air services were decimated. I think the airplane factor plays a far larger role than shifting traffic from buses and minibuses.
On Guangzhou-Wuhan and Beijing-Shanghai, air services existed. But many HSR-s cover short distances where air services never have existed. Changchun-Jilin, Beijing-Tianjin, Guangzhou-Shenzhen, Shanghai-Hangzhou... have there ever been scheduled flights Shanghai-Nanjing?

I do not believe airplane factor plays a "far" larger role, and am not sure whether the role is larger at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
You will then see how small that number is for China (keep in mind urban bus fares are usually 1-2 yuan and even subway fare cap out around 5 yuan).
They do not.
In Shenzhen:
http://szdaily.sznews.com/html/2010-...nt_1374832.htm
Quote:
The journey from Shenzhen Railway Station in Luohu to the airport in Bao’an will cost 9 yuan when the line opens in June next year.
In Guangzhou, the Metro fares for long distances are said to go as far as 14 yuan.

For comparison, a D train ticket from Shanghai Hongqiao to Kunshan South (50 km) cost 15 yuan.

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; June 28th, 2012 at 04:44 PM.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #25
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
On Guangzhou-Wuhan and Beijing-Shanghai, air services existed. But many HSR-s cover short distances where air services never have existed. Changchun-Jilin, Beijing-Tianjin, Guangzhou-Shenzhen, Shanghai-Hangzhou... have there ever been scheduled flights Shanghai-Nanjing?

I do not believe airplane factor plays a "far" larger role, and am not sure whether the role is larger at all.

They do not.
In Shenzhen:
http://szdaily.sznews.com/html/2010-...nt_1374832.htm

In Guangzhou, the Metro fares for long distances are said to go as far as 14 yuan.

For comparison, a D train ticket from Shanghai Hongqiao to Kunshan South (50 km) cost 15 yuan.
Considering Beijing - Shanghai is among the world's busiest flight routes, the difference will make a mark.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph.../daily-chart-8

Note the impact on the aviation industry for several HSR openings in the below articles :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...OUR-years.html

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_9232823.htm

A single lost flight frequency has a far larger capacity impact than a lot of buses put together.

In fact, this is expected. The HSR network's biggest impact is intended to alleviate air space congestion, not bus or other road traffic congestion.


The 14 yuan metro fare is for airport service. Like Shenzhen, there is no large population centre around Guangzhou's airport, so it's not a likely popular commuter route. What's the likelihood the average worker has to go from one extreme suburb to another? The urban routes are capped out at around 5 yuan. Also, 14 yuan is barely over 2 USD, which is the typical minimum base fare in the West - still cheap by global standards.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #26
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by sekelsenmat View Post
Some western examples:

Dresden - Germany
Monatenskarte 50€ see http://www.dvb.de/de/Tickets-Tarife/...ht/Zeitkarten/
I suppose that this price covers buses, the tram network (strassen bahn) and the commuter rail (S-Bahn) in the inner ring area of the city
If someone earns 1000€ netto (in a working class job) per month he will use 5% of his income for transport
If someone earns 2500€ netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 2% of his income for transport

Wroclaw - Poland
If you buys the semestral tickets the final price is 78zl per month for buses + the large tram network (which does the majority of the transport) + night buses + express buses
If someone earns 1000zl netto (in a working class job) per month he will use 8% of his income for transport.
If someone earns 3000zl netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 2,5% of his income for transport

Lisbon - Portugal
Monthly pass of Metro+Buses+Commuter Rail in an area covering almost the entire city costs 35€
If someone earns 1000€ netto (in a middle class job) per month he will use 3,5% of his income for transport.

In Germany the transport costs a lot more, but salaries are similarly higher. You can consider that 4zl = 1 euro

So, someone please send in the numbers for China =)
Based on data from a China Daily news article last week, "per capita disposable income of urban residents rose by 14 percent to reach nearly 19,300 yuan last year, and the per capita net income for people in the countryside grew to more than 7,649 yuan, an increase of 16 percent. ".

A 2-euro (15 yuan) per trip commute would add up to 600 yuan (40 trips) a month, or 37% of urban disposable income. Note that the percentage of gross income will be less than that, but even with a 30% discount, it's still a massive figure. 15 yuan doesn't get you very far on China's HSR. That's why I don't think HSR is affordable for China's urban commuters at this point.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #27
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post

A 2-euro (15 yuan) per trip commute would add up to 600 yuan (40 trips) a month, or 37% of urban disposable income. Note that the percentage of gross income will be less than that, but even with a 30% discount, it's still a massive figure. 15 yuan doesn't get you very far on China's HSR. That's why I don't think HSR is affordable for China's urban commuters at this point.
Not further than Shanghai-Kunshan South (50 km), yes. But Kunshan is not just an average urban area - it is the richest county level city in the whole China, richer than Suzhou on average, let alone Shanghai.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #28
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Not further than Shanghai-Kunshan South (50 km), yes. But Kunshan is not just an average urban area - it is the richest county level city in the whole China, richer than Suzhou on average, let alone Shanghai.
How much do they earn and is a HSR commute feasible as a percentage of income?
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #29
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
How much do they earn and is a HSR commute feasible as a percentage of income?
Precisely up to date numbers on county level are hard to find.

Some up to date numbers broken down by job type, regardless of location within China:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1ptOB...jCi/edit?pli=1

A HSR commute Kunshan-Shanghai would look like 44 single tickets per months (2 each workday)? That would be 660 yens.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2012, 05:27 AM   #30
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Precisely up to date numbers on county level are hard to find.

Some up to date numbers broken down by job type, regardless of location within China:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1ptOB...jCi/edit?pli=1

A HSR commute Kunshan-Shanghai would look like 44 single tickets per months (2 each workday)? That would be 660 yens.
That report is geared towards executive salaries, which is not representative of the general population that makes far less.

According to the Shanghai government website article from March 2011, "the average salary of local employees reached 3896 yuan a month last year".

http://www.shanghai.gov.cn/shanghai/...22ai43151.html

The average workweek in China is 5 days, so a month is approx. 20 working days.

A Kunshan commute is still not feasible for the average urban worker, even in the more prosperous parts of the country.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2012, 10:41 AM   #31
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Some GDP per capita data from 2010 - because 2011 data are available for provinces, but not prefecture level cities.
Nominal, in US$:

Guizhou province - 1938
Mainland China average - 4434
Jiangsu province average - 7806
Shanghai - 11 238
Wuxi - 13 615
Suzhou average - 13 744
Shenzhen - 13 930
Taiwan - 18 603
Hong Kong - 31 758.

How affordable is Taiwan HSR for commuters?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #32
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Some GDP per capita data from 2010 - because 2011 data are available for provinces, but not prefecture level cities.
Nominal, in US$:

Guizhou province - 1938
Mainland China average - 4434
Jiangsu province average - 7806
Shanghai - 11 238
Wuxi - 13 615
Suzhou average - 13 744
Shenzhen - 13 930
Taiwan - 18 603
Hong Kong - 31 758.

How affordable is Taiwan HSR for commuters?
Taiwan HSR is incredibly expensive. The cheapest ticket on the 1h40 ride to Kaohsiung costs NTD 1445 OW (USD 50). A shorter journey to Taichung half way down the island costs about half of that. I can't imagine how affordable is a USD 1000 commuting bill into Taipei for a Taichung resident.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #33
yaohua2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 453
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yet people do travel in China. On Beijing-Tianjin, about 10 million people per year used to travel - 8 millions by slow train, 2 millions by bus (the said World Bank source). When high speed railway was introduced, about half passengers remained on both these services - 1 million by bus, 4 millions by slow train - and besides the 5 millions who transferred to high speed line, 20 million high speed rail passengers were either new created demand or shifted from private cars and minibuses - the combined demand expanded from 10 to 30 millions by adding the HSR. On Changchun-Jilin, about 6 million people per year used to travel - 4 millions by slow train, 2 millions by bus. When HSR was added, buses basically shut down, all passengers shifted to HSR - amd just one quarter of slow train passengers did. The other 7 million HSR passengers were a new created demand, and adding HSR raised the total demand from 6 millions to 13 millions.

As you pointed out, people do not undertake daily commute in China over 100 km distances, because whether by bus or HSR train, the prices like 25 or 32 yuan are too much to pay twice a day. Then who are the people who travel in massive numbers and buy those 55 yuan tickets Beijing-Tianjin?
This is not true. I commuted daily between Beijing and Tianjin 2007–2009. As I did not have to pay for house rental in Beijing, it did save me a lot of money. What made me abandoned the idea was the slow metro train in Beijing. While it was 30 minutes from Tianjin Station to Beijing South Station, it took one hour from Beijing South Station to my working place.

The bus was ¥31 in 2007. I haven't used the service since then but I think it shouldn't be cheaper than it was five years ago. The bus put you in Zhaogongkou in southern Beijing after a two-hour uncomfortable ride. I wonder who will be on the bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Roughly which prices CAN the Chinese workers afford to pay twice a day?
¥110 (¥116 back in 2008) a day may sound a bit expensive. But it is only 20.9 working days in a month. Today a fancy single-room apartment in urban Beijing easily costed you ¥5000+ a month, it is absolutely worth the money.

Last edited by yaohua2000; July 4th, 2012 at 10:01 AM.
yaohua2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #34
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
¥110 (¥116 back in 2008) a day may sound a bit expensive. But it is only 20.9 working days in a month. Today a fancy single-room apartment in urban Beijing easily costed you ¥5000+ a month, it is absolutely worth the money.
110 * 20.9 = 2299 yuan / month for the commute
= 46% of the minimum monthly rental of 5000 yuan

I doubt people in the West spend 50% of their monthly rental on their commutes. That's a crazy amount and not affordable to the general populace.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #35
yaohua2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 453
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
110 * 20.9 = 2299 yuan / month for the commute
= 46% of the minimum monthly rental of 5000 yuan

I doubt people in the West spend 50% of their monthly rental on their commutes. That's a crazy amount and not affordable to the general populace.
Believe it or not, as a poor "working class" Chinese worker, I had commuted for more than a year, and I knew I was not the only "working class" commuter on the train in the morning/evening peak hours. That is also why I had been on the CRH trains for 600+ times and travelled 100,255 km since its introduction on April 18, 2007.
yaohua2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #36
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
Believe it or not, as a poor "working class" Chinese worker, I had commuted for more than a year, and I knew I was not the only "working class" commuter on the train in the morning/evening peak hours. That is also why I had been on the CRH trains for 600+ times and travelled 100,255 km since its introduction on April 18, 2007.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm saying it's not likely a popular option. People still do unaffordable things - look at the credit crunch in the US residential mortgage industry.

I'm interested to know if there are any statistics on the prevalence of such unaffordable commutes.

I've seen examples in the West where new graduates earning meagre wages share apartments in the city so they can halve their bills, if not even better. I recall in London, rowhouses have been subdivided into rooms for rent, which then become a very reasonable option over commuting from zone 3 and beyond.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 12:15 PM   #37
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The cheapest ticket on the 1h40 ride to Kaohsiung costs NTD 1445 OW (USD 50). A shorter journey to Taichung half way down the island costs about half of that. I can't imagine how affordable is a USD 1000 commuting bill into Taipei for a Taichung resident.
Taibei-Taichung - 160 km. Express trains (1 stop, Banqiao) 49 minutes. Stopping trains (3 stops) 58...59 minutes. Price, non-reserved - $675

Taibei-Hsinchu 66 km. 31...32 minutes. Price, non-reserved - $280

Taibei-Taoyuan 36 km. 19 minutes. Price, non-reserved - $155.

The narrow gauge trains Taibei-Taoyuan seem to range between 24 and 43 minutes. What are the ticket prices like?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #38
sekelsenmat
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,139
Likes (Received): 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
Believe it or not, as a poor "working class" Chinese worker, I had commuted for more than a year, and I knew I was not the only "working class" commuter on the train in the morning/evening peak hours. That is also why I had been on the CRH trains for 600+ times and travelled 100,255 km since its introduction on April 18, 2007.
Out of curiosity, how much % of your income do you use for the high speed commute?

Are there monthly tickets to make it cheaper? Commuting by rail is not at all unusual, I commuted to my internship from Stuttgart to Reutlingen in a inter-regional train for 4 months, and it consumed a substantial part of my pay. But less so since there are cheaper monthly tickets in Deutsche Bahn.
__________________
True Democracy for Android - A realistic political simulation game where you are the premier/president and guides your country competing against other political parties =)

My blog about trains, politics and urbanism.
sekelsenmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #39
urbanfan89
Registered User
 
urbanfan89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,502
Likes (Received): 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
In China, HSR is not a commuter train yet. The prices are way too high for the average worker to afford. There is a lot of intercity travel because these cities have huge populations, hence the trains easily fill up even with high frequencies.

HSR is out of reach for the manufacturing workers, where they take home an average of 1348 yuan a month per the following Economist report :

http://www.economist.com/node/16693333

Considering a 30-40 minute ride from Shanghai to Suzhou on a slower D train costs 25 yuan already, the whole month's commute would basically cover 74% of income. Back to the bus they go ...

Among the white-collar workers, the picture also looks unaffordable :
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_11793302.htm

But then, a trip every now and then for a holiday is still probably do-able.
The D/G trains are unaffordable to most Chinese people (hence the complaints of cutbacks of slower trains every time a high speed line opens), but even now there are huge wealthier upper-middle class populations in the Yangtze Delta who can afford such commutes. And in the coming years these populations will only balloon and will no longer be limited to Party/Government officials. That's why I think they should at least consider introducing CRH6 trains designed for regular commuters on more lines in the future.
urbanfan89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2012, 05:18 AM   #40
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The narrow gauge trains Taibei-Taoyuan seem to range between 24 and 43 minutes. What are the ticket prices like?
Your can try TRA's website : http://www.railway.gov.tw/en/

Taoyuan is a suburb just outside Taipei. It's where the airport sits. For a longer commute into central Taiwan and south, TRA is a very slow yet cheap option, but not likely feasible to use for commuting.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium