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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:03 PM   #81
nr23Derek
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"Horseplay" - I do love the way English divides the world Just to confuse the situation further, I'm from Norfolk - the UK version though. We have a saying this side of the pond: "Normal for Norfolk", I'll leave it to you to suss what that means

Nice train though

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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:18 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by HARTride 2012 View Post
I was in Norfolk and Virginia Beach in April and enjoyed riding the Tide too. I hope that the Tampa Bay area will be able to get some form of rail transit up and running by 2030.
what about the heritage streetcar
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 06:34 AM   #83
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Our dismal tourist trap piece of junk I call a streetcar? It needs to be expanded and converted to LRT.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 11:30 PM   #84
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Published on 27th February:

Quote:
http://hamptonroads.com/2014/02/inde...ion-light-rail

Indecision is the wrong decision on light rail
February 28, 2014

Virginia Beach officials are weighing three proposals to bring light rail to the city. Their recommendations will help the City Council determine whether to extend Norfolk's electric train line, embrace new solar-powered technology or gamble that waiting a few years will result in technological advances and reduced costs.

[...]

Two companies have bid to extend The Tide to Rosemont Road; a third company wants to build a system with the solar-powered, magnetic technology that propels high-speed trains in some cities overseas.

City staff and a special task force are attracted to the proposal from American Maglev Technology because it's so much less expensive. The company says it can build an elevated line from Newtown Road to the Oceanfront for $344 million. Hampton Roads Transit has said extending The Tide to the Oceanfront would cost $1 billion or more.

But the Beach takes a huge risk if it puts its faith in a technology that isn't yet safety-certified for the system the company would build here. The company tried and failed to build a maglev line at Old Dominion University a decade ago, and it has no completed transit systems in the country. Choosing it means the city also risks giving up access to state and federal money. If Beach officials are interested in a maglev system, they're better off using traditional technology to get to Town Center or Rosemont Road, and then, for a later phase, pursuing maglev.

That leaves two options: The proposal by Skanska, AECOM and former HRT CEO Philip Shucet, which would use city and state money to extend The Tide to Rosemont for $235 million within two years of the city signing the contract. And the plan from Parsons Construction Group, which would build the extension for about $227 million to Rosemont but would pursue state and federal money along with city funds.

[...]

Last edited by desertpunk; March 5th, 2014 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Don't quote entire article!
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:20 AM   #85
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Old March 19th, 2014, 12:57 PM   #86
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The Virginia Beach City Council should slam the door shut on American Maglev's proposal. American Maglev should first fix the mess they made at ODU before they pitch their system to any city or transit agency.

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/beac...v-presentation

Beach City Council impressed by maglev presentation

By Kathy Adams
The Virginian-Pilot
© March 19, 2014
VIRGINIA BEACH

When the company behind the failed magnetic levitation - or maglev - train at Old Dominion University submitted a proposal to build a mass transit system using the technology here, city officials seemed skeptical.

At the time, Councilman Jim Wood said it would be a waste of time to even review American Maglev Technology's proposal.

Now it appears minds are changing, in part after a visit last week to the company's test track outside Atlanta. Deputy City Manager Dave Hansen and several staffers and council members - including Wood - met with engineers and rode a maglev train on 2,000 feet of track. They presented their findings to the City Council on Tuesday, some describing the technology as "extremely smooth," "amazing" and "impressive."

The price also helped. At $334 million, American Maglev's proposal is a third the cost of other estimates for a publicly funded light-rail system, which have exceeded $1 billion. And because its elevated tracks would go over existing roads, acquiring land would be significantly cheaper, said Councilman John Uhrin, who went on the trip.

The catch: American Maglev has to prove its technology will work in Virginia Beach after it failed in Norfolk.

Its proposal includes privately funding construction of a $34 million pilot project stretching 0.8 of a mile, from the Convention Center to the former Dome site at 19th Street and Arctic Avenue. The company would have to extend it farther to meet federal criteria, Uhrin said.

If it failed, the city would pay nothing and American Maglev would have to remove what it built, said Councilman John Moss, who also went on the trip.

He said American Maglev and its partner, The ACS Group, seemed confident they could deliver.

They've dubbed their system The Wave and propose building a 12.1-mile line from Newtown Road to the Oceanfront. It would be carbon-free, wouldn't need a human operator for each car, and would run on electricity - some from solar panels and the trains' braking systems, the proposal said.

In 2001, American Maglev assembled tracks at ODU, but its prototype failed, and money ran out. The school has since used part of the track for research into magnetic levitation trains.

In addition to overcoming the "ODU stigma," maglev faces another obstacle: Riders taking The Tide from Norfolk would have to switch trains at Newtown Road. The proposal includes money to relocate and revamp the Tide station there.

The city is reviewing two other light-rail proposals from private groups.

The first, from former Hampton Roads Transit head Phil Shucet, proposes building a 5.2-mile line from Newtown Road to Rosemont Road for $235 million.

The second, from California-based Parsons Construction Group, wants to extend The Tide to the Oceanfront. It has not publicized a price.

All three groups have kept some financial information confidential, including how much of the project they would ask taxpayers to fund.

Hampton Roads Transit has said an option paid for entirely by the public would cost more than $1 billion if it stretched to the Oceanfront. City officials have said they may consider a starter line to Town Center, instead.

They are awaiting completion of an environmental impact statement, due this spring.

City Manager Jim Spore said of the maglev pitch, "I think we were fairly encouraged with what we saw."

Wood said he's not sold just yet.

"I wouldn't say

I'm converted," he said. "But I am impressed by the technology, and I'm impressed by the cost-effectiveness of the technology if it does work as it's supposed to."

Kathy Adams, 757-222-5155, [email protected]
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Old May 8th, 2014, 10:13 PM   #87
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Agreement reached on Virginia Beach LRT plan
Thursday, May 08, 2014

AFTER many years of indecision, the mayor of Virginia Beach Mr William Sessoms and Virginia state transportation secretary Mr Aubrey Layne have agreed to develop plans for a light rail link between Virginia Beach and the neighbouring city of Norfolk.

The $US 290m project would involve extending The Tide, Norfolk's existing 12km light rail line, beyond its current eastern terminus at Fort Norfolk/Medical Center, which is situated close to the jurisdictional border between the two cities.

Under the agreement, funding for the project will be split equally between the state government and the City of Virginia Beach. The city will also dismiss three proposals for public private partnerships, which were previously under review, and put the project out to competitive tender.

Virginia Beach has repeatedly rejected LRT as an option for developing transit links over the last few years, favouring a maglev project which the state government has refused to support. Norfolk opened its first light rail line in August 2011
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Old May 8th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #88
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About time. The sooner the Seven Cities (and Four Counties) start realizing they're an interconnected region and not vacuums in themselves regarding transit, the better.

I have no idea why VB was favoring maglev. Didn't they learn from ODU?
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Old May 9th, 2014, 04:21 PM   #89
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With the latest developments...

*The doors are closed on Maglev.
*The three private-public partnership proposals have to be dismissed by the city of Virginia Beach.
*The Tide will only see an extension to Town Center. Oceanfront will have to be considered as a second phase, which could be even more challenging than the original plans by Hampton Roads Transit (HRT).
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Old May 10th, 2014, 01:18 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HARTride 2012 View Post
With the latest developments...

*The doors are closed on Maglev.
*The three private-public partnership proposals have to be dismissed by the city of Virginia Beach.
*The Tide will only see an extension to Town Center. Oceanfront will have to be considered as a second phase, which could be even more challenging than the original plans by Hampton Roads Transit (HRT).
What a shame! at least the town center will be truly smart growth though.
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Old June 10th, 2014, 06:52 PM   #91
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Chesapeake seeks Norfolk LRT extension
Tuesday, June 10, 2014



THE City of Chesapeake, Virginia, is to submit a formal request for funding to Hampton Roads Transit for the extension of The Tide light rail line from the neighbouring city of Norfolk.

Chesapeake intends to carry out a $US 1.8m feasibility study with the aim of obtaining funds from the State of Virginia and federal sources to take the project forward.

Last month an agreement was reached between state and local governments to develop plans for a 12km extension from the existing eastern terminus Fort Norfolk/Medical Center to Virginia Beach.

The City of Norfolk is also developing plans to extend the line to Old Dominion University and Norfolk Naval Station.

Chesapeake City Council adopted a resolution endorsing LRT in Chesapeake as early as 1996, and four years later voters approved a referendum favouring the concept. However, concerns over funding stalled further progress
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Old June 10th, 2014, 09:03 PM   #92
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So if they're going to extend it across the border with Norfolk, I predict it may run through South Norfolk down to at least Greenbrier Mall.
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Old June 11th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #93
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Agreed.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 11:34 PM   #94
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After a 15-year run, the Norfolk NET bus circulator service (Route 17) has come to an end. Yesterday (Saturday, 7/5) was the route's final run through downtown Norfolk. The city decided a few months ago to no longer fund the route due to dwindling ridership. In addition, Routes 16, 28, and 412 were also eliminated. Route 4 was modified to take over a portion formerly covered by Route 16. Other route modifications that took effect today (7/6) include a routing reconfiguration of Route 44 (which no longer runs to downtown Norfolk) and frequency enhancements to Routes 45 and 47, all three as part of the agreement between Hampton Roads Transit and Elizabeth River Tunnels.

Here's a full scope of today's transit system modifications: http://www.gohrt.com/customer-alerts...ice-changes-2/

Oh, and one more thing, from what I've heard from an HRT rider who I communicate with on Twitter, the new fleet of Novabuses, purchased as part of the ERT enhancements, are rolling into service beginning today.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 08:03 PM   #95
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HRT: Bus transit alternative to light rail would be costly

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/04/hrt-...ould-be-costly
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Old April 12th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #96
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I just blogged about the whole situation with the upcoming meeting for the Virginia Beach city council to decide on the LPA. It will truly be detrimental if they decide against LRT, especially with the state offer hanging in the balance. Even worse, the rail haters are out and about trying to push the council and the mayor towards the dreaded "No Build" option.

Here's my post: https://hartride2012tampa.wordpress....ch-light-rail/
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Old May 15th, 2015, 04:51 PM   #97
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=535

Virginia Beach approves light rail funding
Friday, May 15, 2015



VIRGINIA Beach City Council has approved a $US 20m budget to fund development work over the next year on the planned extension of Hampton Roads Transit's (HRT) light rail line from the neighbouring city of Norfolk

The $US 310m project would involve extending The Tide, Norfolk's existing 12km light rail line, beyond its current eastern terminus at Newtown Road, which is situated close to the jurisdictional border between the two cities, to Virginia Beach town centre. The line would use the alignment of a former heavy rail line between Newtown Road and Birdneck Road in Virginia Beach

...
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:23 AM   #98
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First Quarter 2015 Ridership numbers for Hampton Roads

Source : http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

Bus Ridership
Hampton / Hampton Roads Transit - 41,800 (2015)


Light Rail
Norfolk / LRT - 4,500 (2015)


Ferries
Hampton / Hampton Roads Transit - 400 (2015)
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Old August 30th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #99
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I don't completely agree with this story. There are some streetcar lines in the United States that have so little potential to earn revenue that they don't even charge a fare.

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/06/tide...senger-country

Tide biggest money loser per passenger in country

By Dave Forster
The Virginian-Pilot
© June 6, 2015
NORFOLK

The Tide has an ignominious new distinction: It loses more money per passenger ride - by a wide margin - than any other metro rail line in the United States, according to a ranking by the Brookings Institution.

Norfolk's 7.4-mile light-rail line, which opened in 2011, lost an average of $6.63 per passenger in 2013, according to the Brookings list. The second biggest loser, run by the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority in California, subsidized an average of $5.53 per passenger, according to the ranking.

Hampton Roads Transit spokesman Tom Holden did not dispute the figures but said The Tide's position on the list, while disappointing, is a result of its being only a starter line. Its value will grow as it is extended and more people use it, Holden said. He noted that HRT also has raised its fares since 2013 and is scheduled to do so again in 2016.

The Virginia Beach City Council cast a nonbinding vote last month in support of extending The Tide about 3 miles to Town Center and included $20 million in its upcoming budget to get the project moving.

Robert Dean, co-founder of the Virginia Beach Taxpayer Alliance, publicized the Brookings report ranking in an email blast Friday, using the tongue-in-cheek subject line, "Norfolk wants Virginia Beach to help it stay on top as the Number One transit agency in the nation."

Later, in an interview, he dismissed Holden's defense of The Tide.

"You have to expect HRT to try to save their butts, so to speak, and that's what they try to do with all their propaganda," he said.

HRT has estimated that capital costs for the Town Center extension, including expenses dating to the start of a study in 2009, will reach $327 million, in 2018 dollars. Operations and maintenance, including additional buses to feed the line, are expected to exceed $5 million per year.

The ranking by Brookings, a think tank based in Washington, uses figures published by the U.S. Department of Transportation. It lists operating expenses for The Tide in 2013 of $12,374,424, fare revenue of $687,892 and passenger trips - as counted by each time a person boards a vehicle - of 1,762,284. Norfolk picks up the bulk of The Tide's funding gap, with state and federal money covering the rest.

The Brookings ranking is part of a larger report on the nation's transportation infrastructure. The authors noted that mass transit is like roads in that neither pay for themselves and both require a mix of user fees and government funding to cover operations, maintenance and expansion.

Holden mentioned the Midtown Tunnel expansion, a $2.1 billion deal funded in part with about $500 million of state money, as an example of a local highway project that relies on subsidies.

"The general transportation picture is one of public investment for public use," he said.

The Brookings report noted that all metro rail systems in the U.S. operate at a loss, with the smallest subsidies of about $1 per passenger going to the country's five biggest systems - New York, Washington, Boston, Chicago and San Francisco.

The Tide had the fewest passengers among the 31 rail systems ranked in the report. It also had the lowest overall operating expense and one of the smallest overall losses.

The report's authors wrote that government subsidies "may be justified for mass transit," pointing to studies that have linked development of stations to higher land values, higher office rents and lower office vacancy rates. Mass transit also alleviates congestion for drivers, they wrote, though the HRT study of the proposed extension to Virginia Beach found that light rail there would not significantly decrease traffic for motorists.

Holden said HRT has documented $538.1 million worth of transit-oriented development generated by The Tide. Local economist James Koch, a former president of Old Dominion University, told The Virginian-Pilot last month that there is a trend to attribute much more development to the presence of light rail than is warranted by the evidence.

Dave Forster, 757-222-5005, [email protected]
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Old August 30th, 2015, 05:55 PM   #100
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Please don't post the entire story , otherwise the entire thread might get deleted... Only the first paragraph is allowed...
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