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Old July 1st, 2014, 11:28 PM   #181
XAN_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eu01 View Post
And yes, on some areas of the Baltic countries the gauge did change back and forth in history, but it was necessary for the fighting armies to get deeper into the territory with their stock, no matter what costs involved (compromising on quality though).
Back in a day, regauging was cheap: remove the spike from wooden, move rail a bit, drive spike into new position.
Concrete sleepers, in contrast, must be replaced, in case of regauging.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 11:33 PM   #182
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Pro rail baltica, wait, are sure that's an AC extensions? There are no AC railways for hundreds of km from Ust-Luga (nearest is either Vilnus or Orsha - ~700 km by rail), but plenty of DC, both Estonia and all railways around St.-Petersburg
Hmm yep you were right. The new extension wil be DC.
http://www.rzdp.com/lengtp/projects/...om-2-kh-putey/

Anyway, Latvians are extending AC all the way to Skulte it is 255 Km distance to Tallin

Map of Latvia AC project
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 07:25 PM   #183
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Wow, never heard about Latvian project. It wouldn't be an extension of existing AC network, but rather conversion of existing DC network, and then extending it.
Which make sense, because both Belarus and Lithuania are 25 kv AC.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 08:07 PM   #184
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Yes, the plan is to have AC from Ventspils to Rīga to Minsk! There was also a plan to extend to Moscow, but it doesn't seem that the Russians are willing to do anything on their side.

Firstly we will convert to AC, then extend to Daugavpils and then do the rest which you can see in the map posted by Pro Rail Baltica.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 11:14 AM   #185
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Wow, never heard about Latvian project. It wouldn't be an extension of existing AC network, but rather conversion of existing DC network, and then extending it.
Which make sense, because both Belarus and Lithuania are 25 kv AC.
I think first phase of the EU funded project was to decide should they keep DC or change to AC. They decided to switch to AC. So das vi danja DC network soon.

Soon Latvia will have AC trains from Stadler, but no AC network
http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/transport/?doc=93502

The Estonian electric distribution company Elering has also conducted study from the potential of 25 kV ->
http://www.energiatalgud.ee/img_auth...alitlusele.pdf

You can use search and copy paste juicy bits into google translator. I suppose Estonians will just wait will Latvians do everything as planned. They have forecasted that Rail Baltica will have 2 x 25 kV distribution.

They have already made international agreement about extending it all the way to Belarus:

http://eng.belta.by/all_news/economi...n_i_73108.html

..I suppose in Estonian case it will make sense to have at duo electric use for their trains in future, since the DC line will be soon extended all the way to Narva.

Latvians are pretty serious with their AC conversion plans. I discussed with my friends about the topic and most probably they will operate the conversion period with the modernized diesel trains at Riga region and then start to use the new Flirt trains as AC dedicated. Dual use dont make sence and it is more expensive in Rigas case.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 11:32 AM   #186
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Pro Rail Baltica, keep in mind that we still don't have any technical specs for the Flirts! We don't know if they will be AC-only. But maybe they could be - the earliest for the start of the conversion was, I think, 2016 - the same time when we will have first Flirts.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:06 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
Pro Rail Baltica, keep in mind that we still don't have any technical specs for the Flirts! We don't know if they will be AC-only. But maybe they could be - the earliest for the start of the conversion was, I think, 2016 - the same time when we will have first Flirts.
I have tough already some while that there is mitch-match / error in AC-conversion and plan getting rid of DC and the train procurement.

Anyway, what ever Riga will do with the will most probably will be used as case example for Tallin

Yes you are right, BUT similar topic about dual use has been going on at
http://jlf.fi/f20/115-tampereen-pika.../index159.html

From Tampere light rail topic. The initial plan was to get identical tram-train models to Turku and Tampere. Further study however indicated that the electrical system (dual system) is more expensive than single system. Then there was additional cost also from other sources as well. Anyway the point was that it would not be justified to get additional technical features which make solution more complex and expensive if there is need only for short time use.

Now Turku will go solo with it's Tram-train plans.

If Riga region get rid of DC network as planned then the trains dont need duo system. It is more expensive. Then the dual system should be also in the future Locos etc. It dont sound very logical to keep the old DC network at all.

PV can use the modernised diesel trains for conversion period.

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; July 3rd, 2014 at 12:12 PM.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:35 PM   #188
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The DC would dissappear one line at a time during the conversion. We won't need ANY dual voltage locomotives. The dual voltage EMUs would be needed only if we want to see new trains on the lines before the conversion.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 03:54 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
So das vi danja DC network soon.
Do svidanja (do=until (next) svidanja=meeting)
Anyway, nice information
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 08:07 PM   #190
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Estonia won't switch to AC at least in the coming decades. DC is good enough for existing electrified railways around Tallinn and there aren't any plans to expand the network.

Rail Baltic will be AC but it's standard gauge anyway so it doesn't really matter.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 09:04 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Estonia won't switch to AC at least in the coming decades. DC is good enough for existing electrified railways around Tallinn and there aren't any plans to expand the network.

Rail Baltic will be AC but it's standard gauge anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Hmm.. I have understood Rail Baltica in two separate projects.. Phase 1 and Phase 2. As presented in the earlier link page 43.
http://www.energiatalgud.ee/img_auth...alitlusele.pdf

Yellow and green lines (trass II). That will be build first before the standard gauge. I am sure from it.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 10:05 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
Hmm.. I have understood Rail Baltica in two separate projects.. Phase 1 and Phase 2. As presented in the earlier link page 43.
http://www.energiatalgud.ee/img_auth...alitlusele.pdf

Yellow and green lines (trass II). That will be build first before the standard gauge. I am sure from it.
Well... Rail Baltic is indeed built in two phases, at least over here, first is rebuilding the old line Tallinn-Tartu-Valga to 120kph, no electrification, phase two is the new 240kph standard gauge line via Pärnu (red line on the PDF). Currently phase 1 is completed.
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Old July 4th, 2014, 10:36 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Estonia won't switch to AC at least in the coming decades. DC is good enough for existing electrified railways around Tallinn and there aren't any plans to expand the network.

Rail Baltic will be AC but it's standard gauge anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Well honestly speaking I will assume that is that Pärnu track will be 240km/h, double gauged into both directions that Estonians and others would not use the track for commuter trafic also. I see high probability that in future there will be in use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUW_2000 equipped Flirts
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Old July 4th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
Well honestly speaking I will assume that is that Pärnu track will be 240km/h, double gauged into both directions that Estonians and others would not use the track for commuter trafic also. I see high probability that in future there will be in use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUW_2000 equipped Flirts
Wait, is there a powered SUW_2000? AFAIK, only non-powered SUW_2000 bogies exist, and even they had their share of problems several years ago, when UZ started using them.
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Old July 4th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
Well honestly speaking I will assume that is that Pärnu track will be 240km/h, double gauged into both directions that Estonians and others would not use the track for commuter trafic also. I see high probability that in future there will be in use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUW_2000 equipped Flirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
Wait, is there a powered SUW_2000? AFAIK, only non-powered SUW_2000 bogies exist, and even they had their share of problems several years ago, when UZ started using them.
Rail Baltica will be standard gauge, double gauge line with 4 rails will be only in places where there isn't any room for a separate line, like entry into Tallinn or Pärnu. And our Flirts will stay on the russian gauge lines.
SUW 2000 is meant for non-powered carriages. Only Talgo has made powered double gauge bogies.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 02:30 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
Rail Baltica will be standard gauge, double gauge line with 4 rails will be only in places where there isn't any room for a separate line, like entry into Tallinn or Pärnu. And our Flirts will stay on the russian gauge lines.
SUW 2000 is meant for non-powered carriages. Only Talgo has made powered double gauge bogies.
Seems to be even more then Talgo and SUW. There is plenty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Systems

Anyway my main point was that I think each country will at least investigate the possibilities of utilizing RB for national trafficking
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Old July 6th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #197
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BTW, I recently had e a talk with civil activist promoting Ukraine-Romania rail connection, and he stated, from their last discussion with UZ (UA railway), that cost of maintaing SUW infrastructure and rolling stock are unjustifiably high.

So it seems, so far, in Europe there are only two proven and successful VGA system - Talgo and CAF.
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Last edited by XAN_; July 6th, 2014 at 04:11 PM.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 11:59 AM   #198
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I was googling "Elektriraudtee AC süsteemi" and I noticed that

Tallin university of technology has started recently publish all kind of studies related to AC locomotives and AC infra conversion:

http://digi.lib.ttu.ee/c/?c=13

http://www.ttu.ee/en/

I think this is clear indication that after Latvians have finished their AC works something similar will happend in Estonia too. ..Most probably the AC works in both countries will be done by same Chinese company that does the works in Belarus at the moment. (You can easily find details by google)
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Old October 29th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #199
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Deal reached on Rail Baltica joint venture
Wednesday, October 29, 2014



AFTER years of political wrangling, plans to build a standard-gauge high-speed line linking the Baltic States with Poland reached an important milestone on October 28 when the governments of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania signed an agreement to create a joint venture company, RB Rail, to implement the project

The signing ceremony was held in the Latvian capital Riga and was attended by the transport ministers of the three states.

The three countries will each hold a 33.3% share in the new company and each state has agreed to provide RB Rail with €650,000 in start-up capital.

Construction is already underway on the first phase of Rail Baltica 1 from the Polish-Lithuanian border to a new intermodal terminal at Kaunas, which is due to be completed in 2015. The next phase of the project will extend 1435mm-gauge tracks east to the marshalling yard at Palemonas

...
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Old October 29th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #200
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You can see the Rail Baltic route alternatives here. The preferred route is marked in green.
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