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Old October 31st, 2014, 02:41 AM   #201
Slartibartfas
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Rail Baltica is due to be completed by 2024? I'll believe it when I'll see it. But it would be great if that were really true.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 10:02 AM   #202
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Old November 1st, 2014, 05:13 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Rail Baltica is due to be completed by 2024? I'll believe it when I'll see it. But it would be great if that were really true.
Yes, construction should start somewhere around 2018 to 2020.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 07:37 PM   #204
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But that would mean a construction time of 4-6 years... for around 800 km. That would be damn fast.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 08:56 PM   #205
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I'm not really familiar with how long these kind of projects take elsewhere but I'm guessing the most time consuming part is tunneling which isn't necessary for the Rail Baltic project. There will be a huge amount of viaducts and ecoducts, though...
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Old November 1st, 2014, 10:54 PM   #206
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Well... each country has to build only about 250 km in those 4 years... hm...
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Old November 1st, 2014, 11:09 PM   #207
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The Estonian part is 200 km long, 215 km if you include the branch to Muuga harbour.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 12:40 AM   #208
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I am just asking because my only experience with bigger rail projects is the Austrian west corridor (Vmax of track: 250 kph). A project that has been constantly in the working for 20 years or so. And they are finishing only now the last stretch between Linz and Vienna, completing the core ~190 km. For the rest of the corridor to the German border we'll be waiting another 10-20 years.

But probably you could be a lot faster, if you want to. Still, 4 years sounds ambitious to me.

Btw, what would be the main relations for passenger rail on Rail Baltica, once finished? Most bigger cities connected there are all in different countries. Is there a lot of travelling between the Baltic capitals and or other major cities? Are a lot of people travelling to Warsaw and/or Helsinki?

In any case, I guess the freight traffic alone could justify this corridor, maybe not a a track of that speed but certainly a modern double track standard gauge connection.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 07:33 AM   #209
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4 years is indeed a bit too ambitious but 6 years is quite realistic IMO, especially since, as I said before, no tunneling is required on this route.

Besides, it's a bit different for most Western European countries. They already have a functioning standard gauge railway network. The Baltics would basically get their first standard gauge line (apart from the short line in Lithuania) so for it to make sense you have to build it all in one go.

The bulk of the revenue would indeed come from freight trains, the passenger rail side of it is basically an added bonus. Even then, it's a bit unclear whether it will pay off purely in the economic sense. Rail Baltic is as much (if not more) a political project as it is an economical one. It would add a vital connection between the Baltics and the rest of Europe. It would also connect the Baltic States to each other better. Tallinn - Riga would take 2 hours (currently 4.5 hours by bus) and Tallinn - LT/PL border would take 4.5 hours.

The Baltic States and the EU have already spent a lot of money in making the Baltic region less dependent on Russian energy, for example. There are 2 new underwater power lines between Estonia and Finland. An underwater cable between Poland and Sweden should also be in construction and several power lines to Poland will follow. In the future the Baltic States will disconnect themselves from the Russian power grid and join the Central European one. Add up the LNG terminal in Lithuania, a new gas pipe between Estonia and Finland and another LNG terminal in Finland etc. All of these make little sense in purely economical terms...the reasons are mainly political and I personally think that Rail Baltic should also be viewed in this perspective, at least partially.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #210
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I am starting to wonder if my (Latvian) side can build it in time... The new South bridge in Rīga was built in exactly four years. But the Rail Baltica Daugava crossing will be 1,7 times longer and over a much deeper part of the river (hydro plant reservoir). And, if I'm not mistaken, the bridge will have not only the railway but also the A4 (Via Baltica) road which adds to construction time.
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Old January 7th, 2015, 07:31 PM   #211
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=537

GoRail to cut Estonia Russia services
Wednesday, January 07, 2015



GORAIL, the only operator of regular passenger services between Estonia and Russia, has announced it will cut its daily Tallinn St Petersburg train back to just two return services per week next month

From February 15, the Tallinn Baltic Narva St Petersburg Vitebsk service will only operate on Fridays and Sundays while the return service will run only on Saturdays and Mondays.

GoRail says that the economic situation and political tensions between the European Union and Russia have reduced demand on the route. "The decline in the value of the Rouble has reduced the number of tourists travelling to Estonia," says GoRail development director Mr Jolan evtsovi. "With the high fixed costs of operating these trains this is the only viable solution."

The international passenger service on the 380km Tallinn St Petersburg route has led a chequered existence over the last decade, having been withdrawn and reinstated on a number of occasions. The current GoRail service was introduced on an experimental basis in May 2012
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Old January 7th, 2015, 11:32 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I am just asking because my only experience with bigger rail projects is the Austrian west corridor (Vmax of track: 250 kph). A project that has been constantly in the working for 20 years or so. And they are finishing only now the last stretch between Linz and Vienna, completing the core ~190 km. For the rest of the corridor to the German border we'll be waiting another 10-20 years.

But probably you could be a lot faster, if you want to. Still, 4 years sounds ambitious to me.

Btw, what would be the main relations for passenger rail on Rail Baltica, once finished? Most bigger cities connected there are all in different countries. Is there a lot of travelling between the Baltic capitals and or other major cities? Are a lot of people travelling to Warsaw and/or Helsinki?

In any case, I guess the freight traffic alone could justify this corridor, maybe not a a track of that speed but certainly a modern double track standard gauge connection.
But in Austria you have complicated terrain, mountains, highier population density, Rail Baltica will mostly go on very flat terrain.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 03:12 AM   #213
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In Austria even the upgrade of the main track leading from Vienna (Pop.: 1.8 Mio) to Bratislava (Pop.: 0.5 Mio) on a length of about 30 km (!) from single track non-electric to double track electric and increased max speed of 160 km/h is projected to take 15 years (and has been talked about for the last 25 years). The corridor we are talking about is already there, just the 2nd track and overhead lines are missing. It is also the straightest rail line in the entire country basically being a straight line from Vienna to the border on a basically completely flat terrain ...

thats Austrian rail construction for you

(The reason for this is obviously that the BB has no money for this small to mid sized undertaking because its suffering from a mild overload of tunnelling projects: Koralm and now starting of Semmering and Brenner baset tunnels ... add to that the new central station in Vienna etc)
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; January 8th, 2015 at 03:24 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 04:46 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
thats Austrian politics for you
FYP.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 05:02 AM   #215
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Why does it take long to build rail projects in Austria?
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Old January 8th, 2015, 05:21 AM   #216
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Why does it take long to build rail projects in Austria?
Lack of political support. Those with support are built quick and on time.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 05:54 AM   #217
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What about the general population? Is the rail lobby weak in Austria?
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Old January 8th, 2015, 10:22 AM   #218
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Rail Baltica is vital to Baltic countries independence. A track avoind passing by Russian territory could get Baltic Countries more independence from Russian imperialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Baltica

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Old January 8th, 2015, 11:44 AM   #219
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That's not an accurate map.

The route will go Tallinn-Prnu-Riga-Panevežys-Kaunas. This is a more accurate representation of the route:
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Old January 8th, 2015, 12:07 PM   #220
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Quote:
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An underwater cable between Poland and Sweden should also be in construction and several power lines to Poland will follow. In the future the Baltic States will disconnect themselves from the Russian power grid and join the Central European one.
Little OT but: Its political and it makes sense. Power lines from Baltics to Poland afford to join the UCTPE-System and its frequencies as east european countries did leaving CENTREL. Im not firm with this that much, but baltic traffic seems to be mainly car-related.
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