daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Highrises > Proposed Highrises



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #841
HK999
University of HK / 香港大學
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hong Kong SAR / 香港特區
Posts: 3,389
Likes (Received): 336

People from Chicago surely don't dream of Dubai's skyline. Why? Well for starters Chicago's skyline is arguably one of the most balanced and aesthetically pleasing skylines in the world.
Also, this city has class and height. So yeah, it's probably the other way around: the Dubai people are the ones who should envy Chicago.
__________________
Sapientia et Virtus 明德格物
Industrial Organization, MSc
HK999 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 19th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #842
GunnerJacket
Oh look - a doughnut!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicken City, GA
Posts: 8,130
Likes (Received): 3205

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTEPman View Post
I'm not sure where all the hate for Dubai's towers or skyline comes from. I think part of it is envy. I know i'm envious of it.

Some people call their towers "gawdy". At least they are putting unique towers up though. I get really tired of the thousands of interpretations of a box that we build here. I could only dream that we had a skyline like these people are putting up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Absolutely agree.
The envy is much more apparent than a lot of the haters think.
I watch the Toronto skyscraper construction forums pretty closely and just about all I ever see are boxes. People get really excited about these boxes just because they're tall , not because they're particularly interesting to look at.

I happen to agree that a lot of what Dubai builds is gaudy but at least it's not all the same in massing and facade. To be fair , very little of it is particularly avant garde either but at least it's not just a bunch of boxes. To be sure , there are boxes but still plenty of variety overall.
Interesting presumptions paired here. The flaw in such thinking is you're disconnecting context from the equation.

Dubai is a new build, attempting to foster volumes of residential structures in a decidedly white collar vacation setting. As an urban destination it's an infant still being shaped under SimCity thinking, and as such their buildings are intentionally showy. One critic has told it's the latest in high style and design influences from another culture and a different sense of art. Still another has likened the detailing of such towers as a parade of sequined ball gowns from a children's beauty pageant - Emphasizing the splash as if to distract from the underlying immaturity. Arguably they're both right.

Chicago and the older, northern cities in the US have been built over much longer periods of time, serve decidedly more business oriented purposes and exist in decidedly different climates. There's little need or incentive for a common developer to add flair to an office building above and beyond that which will win him clients. In the end these cities have grown more organically, evolving to respond to many different tastes and trends. The architecture reflects this.

Thus, there's nothing wrong with looking at Dubai and seeing something beautiful or something wholly superficial. Nor is it required that comparisons of cities and skylines be presumed apples to apples.

OMO.
__________________
"How can anybody be enlightened? Truth is after all so poorly lit."

L.A.F.2. liked this post
GunnerJacket no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #843
UTEPman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 32

^ A very well thought out argument.

I am fully aware of why we build the way we do, and why they build the way they do.

As a skyscraper enthusiast however, I'm just not excited about all the boxes we build here (whether they are more purposeful or not). I love the fact that cities are pushing the realm of technology/design to the extreme and creating something unique in the world.

I just wish we did that here as well. We used to be a country known for taking big risks with skyscrapers (Empire State, Sears Tower, etc). Now, it's like we don't even try or care anymore.
__________________

4npower liked this post
UTEPman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 12:30 AM   #844
UTEPman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 32

Found a really cool HD vid of Chicago's skyline. Really showcases it in the best possible way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqYfZk4ELU
__________________

Manitopiaaa, iamtheSTIG liked this post
UTEPman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #845
L.A.F.2.
Georgia Tech
 
L.A.F.2.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 5307

You're right. I'll embed it so it can be viewed with facility:

__________________

Manitopiaaa liked this post
L.A.F.2. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 01:19 AM   #846
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,495

Why so much hate for boxes I will never know.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #847
L.A.F.2.
Georgia Tech
 
L.A.F.2.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 5307

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTEPman View Post
^ A very well thought out argument.

I am fully aware of why we build the way we do, and why they build the way they do.

As a skyscraper enthusiast however, I'm just not excited about all the boxes we build here (whether they are more purposeful or not). I love the fact that cities are pushing the realm of technology/design to the extreme and creating something unique in the world.

I just wish we did that here as well. We used to be a country known for taking big risks with skyscrapers (Empire State, Sears Tower, etc). Now, it's like we don't even try or care anymore.
I have to say I disagree, and about two things. I'd have to say now more than ever we're pushing the limits of design. Aside from 432 Park, look at all 4 WTC towers, 4 Times Square, BOA Tower, Hudson Yards North, 15 Penn, Brookfield West, Tower Verre, One57, etc. I think we're on the same par as the Art Deco 1930s beauties like ESB, Chrysler, 40 Wall, 70 Pine, and GE.

I like our "shoeboxes" a lot too, especially when they beat the pinnacle of a spire topped, pyramid cupola with setbacks. Prime example is 2 Prudential in Aon in Chicago. Just look at how much what would be a really tall building (heck, a supertall even) is dwarfed by Aon, which I believe is the 4th largest supertall in the world.


Boxes symbolize power and economic stability, not to mention a professional basketball team .
L.A.F.2. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 02:13 AM   #848
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,341
Likes (Received): 8240

5th tallest supertall in the USA, not the world

edit: oh you said largest. nevermind me then
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 05:28 AM   #849
GunnerJacket
Oh look - a doughnut!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicken City, GA
Posts: 8,130
Likes (Received): 3205

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTEPman View Post
As a skyscraper enthusiast however, I'm just not excited about all the boxes we build here (whether they are more purposeful or not). I love the fact that cities are pushing the realm of technology/design to the extreme and creating something unique in the world.

I just wish we did that here as well. We used to be a country known for taking big risks with skyscrapers (Empire State, Sears Tower, etc). Now, it's like we don't even try or care anymore.
a) There's just as much crap being built all over the world;
b) There's equal interest but the architect is no longer always so positioned to drive that, plus many an architect is overwhelmed in trying to create a novel modern skyscraper.

Most of the classic high-form skyscrapers came at a time that emphasized style and the architect, often equal parts artist at the time, was expected to create art. He practically sculpted every part of the building. Now there are so many subcontractors and the materials are different. Materials that practically demand a more boxy shape so as to maximize floor space and cost efficiency in ways never imagined when skyscrapers were originally rare statements of vision.

Put more simply, I'd argue that there's just as much quality being built today, but the volume of construction around the world means it's often hidden among so much average/below-average design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Why so much hate for boxes I will never know.
Because we're not robots. A few can stand out amidst a cityscape without issue, but if they begin to overwhelm the scene then visibly you react to a city designed more for cold efficiency than one of humanity and creativity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.F.2. View Post
Boxes symbolize power and economic stability, not to mention a professional basketball team .
oooookay, you piqued my curiosity. Please relate boxy architecture with NBA for me.
__________________
"How can anybody be enlightened? Truth is after all so poorly lit."
GunnerJacket no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #850
UTEPman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 32

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Why so much hate for boxes I will never know.
Because they are common and uninspired.

Imagine if every building on earth was shaped the same way. Would get pretty old. That is why human creativity is such a great trait. It allows us to push boundries.

There is nothing creative about designing a box a thousand times over....
UTEPman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 06:33 AM   #851
UTEPman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Likes (Received): 32

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.F.2. View Post
I have to say I disagree, and about two things. I'd have to say now more than ever we're pushing the limits of design. Aside from 432 Park, look at all 4 WTC towers, 4 Times Square, BOA Tower, Hudson Yards North, 15 Penn, Brookfield West, Tower Verre, One57, etc. I think we're on the same par as the Art Deco 1930s beauties like ESB, Chrysler, 40 Wall, 70 Pine, and GE.

I like our "shoeboxes" a lot too, especially when they beat the pinnacle of a spire topped, pyramid cupola with setbacks. Prime example is 2 Prudential in Aon in Chicago. Just look at how much what would be a really tall building (heck, a supertall even) is dwarfed by Aon, which I believe is the 4th largest supertall in the world.


Boxes symbolize power and economic stability, not to mention a professional basketball team .
I'll give you 2WTC, Tower Verre (even though i'm less enthused with it since its height reduction), and some of the HY projects.

However, I don't find anything special about 1WTC (although it does look better than I originally thought it would).

The main office buildings for the HY project are also kind of "meh". The huge boxy part that takes up half the towers make them look short/fat. The rest of the project looks fantastic though. Those will be the some of the few new towers in NA that I really like.

Some of those towers mentioned though may never get built (including some of WTC and HY).

When was the last TRULY iconic tower built in the U.S? I'm talking about a tower that is world renowned in terms of height and design.
UTEPman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 06:55 AM   #852
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,495

My 'Favourite international style building' thread contains every modernist style box I have ever found the name of. I picked up most in NYC and they can fit easily into maybe two pages. There really aren't as many as people think.

Mies Van Der Rohe used this technique to evoke strength and organization. That is what his designs showed. Vertical decorative I-beams and dark colours give that imposing feel. Most have an airy lobby that can do nothing but awe.

International modernism was so immensively successful and popular that people see them as commonplace. Minimalism and modernism (architecture and art) does not equal to lack of imagination. Imagine in the 50s, after seeing nothing but brick, to see a refreshing steel monolith above you.

The USA does not need to prove itself in terms of height. Places like Shanghai, Moscow and Dubai which have no boxes look like Disneyland from a distance.

And besides, this post office building isn't even a box. It has curved sides and splits in two at the middle. I don't know why people originally even brought them up.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 10:22 AM   #853
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,648
Likes (Received): 53452

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTEPman View Post
Because they are common and uninspired.

Imagine if every building on earth was shaped the same way. Would get pretty old. That is why human creativity is such a great trait. It allows us to push boundries.

There is nothing creative about designing a box a thousand times over....
Blame the street grid. Developers everywhere choose to max out the building envelope for the most Gross Leasable Area (GLA) available. The reason why buildings in London, for example, are so interesting is the fact that their parcels have unique shapes thanks to ancient property boundaries. Sometimes local regulations like shadow issues in San Francisco, or design enhancements in exchange for added height and floor space lead to more interesting towers. In places where land and construction costs are much lower, builders can get creative with designs but in places like NYC, Tokyo, Chicago, etc. nobody wants to leave any GLA on the table if they can help it..
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2013, 11:41 PM   #854
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
My 'Favourite international style building' thread contains every modernist style box I have ever found the name of. I picked up most in NYC and they can fit easily into maybe two pages. There really aren't as many as people think.

Mies Van Der Rohe used this technique to evoke strength and organization. That is what his designs showed. Vertical decorative I-beams and dark colours give that imposing feel. Most have an airy lobby that can do nothing but awe.

International modernism was so immensively successful and popular that people see them as commonplace. Minimalism and modernism (architecture and art) does not equal to lack of imagination. Imagine in the 50s, after seeing nothing but brick, to see a refreshing steel monolith above you.

The USA does not need to prove itself in terms of height. Places like Shanghai, Moscow and Dubai which have no boxes look like Disneyland from a distance.

And besides, this post office building isn't even a box. It has curved sides and splits in two at the middle. I don't know why people originally even brought them up.
Shanghai looks amazing, its main 3 towers are stunningly beautiful and organic. From a distance it looks sublime. Shanghai does have thousands of boring boxy residential towers though, they are just not tall enough to stand out. Same thing in Moscow. However, all the towers in the main cluster, especially the big 3, work well with each other. I don't get that theme-park feel from them at all, just a futuristic ensemble.

Last edited by aquablue; February 22nd, 2013 at 12:20 AM.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2013, 11:49 PM   #855
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
Blame the street grid. Developers everywhere choose to max out the building envelope for the most Gross Leasable Area (GLA) available. The reason why buildings in London, for example, are so interesting is the fact that their parcels have unique shapes thanks to ancient property boundaries. Sometimes local regulations like shadow issues in San Francisco, or design enhancements in exchange for added height and floor space lead to more interesting towers. In places where land and construction costs are much lower, builders can get creative with designs but in places like NYC, Tokyo, Chicago, etc. nobody wants to leave any GLA on the table if they can help it..
I agree about London having interesting shaped buildings and their advantage with unique shaped plot boundaries. Although I think that NY's latest designs and proposals can match up well. Verre, 56 Leonard, 2WTC, etc. I actually am not a fan of every hyped up tower in London. Only a few towers really pique my interest, and that doesn't include Leadenhall or Vinoly's tower.

Last edited by aquablue; February 22nd, 2013 at 12:22 AM.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:34 AM   #856
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Why so much hate for boxes I will never know.
Simply boredom I think. People want to see novel structures and variety in their cities.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:57 AM   #857
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,495

Those ones in Shanghai are the generic apartment towers, though. I'm talking about Miesan style international architecture, not bland condo towers with balconies.

Every time I saw a Miesan style building from the base in NYC, I was impressed.
The glass and steel ones, though. The concrete/stone clad ones were 'meh'
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:30 AM   #858
YtseMan
Registered User
 
YtseMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,572
Likes (Received): 628

DEL
YtseMan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:31 AM   #859
tim1807
faster than buildings
 
tim1807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Den Helder
Posts: 10,325
Likes (Received): 5334

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTEPman View Post

Some of those towers mentioned though may never get built (including some of WTC and HY).
The Hudson Yards towers all have a pretty good change to be build the coming years, and about the WTC towers on-hold, they may not be build in 2 years, or in 5 years , but they will be completed some day definately because New York is getting fuller with companies who need office space.
tim1807 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:33 PM   #860
Eric Offereins
The only way is up
 
Eric Offereins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 68,664
Likes (Received): 28211

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Simply boredom I think. People want to see novel structures and variety in their cities.
So do I, but Aon is a great design that I would love to have in my city.
Eric Offereins no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
chicago, old post office

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu