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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #1021
DFDalton
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I read your deleted post (wasn't even that off-topic), and I agree on many points. But never underestimate Chicago's will to build an übertall tower, especially when it's going to beat New York.
I'm trying to think where I went wrong. Was it the general tone of negativity? The use of colorful phrases such as "Mugnificant Mile" and "Motown Makeover"? I don't know. Say what you will about Mayor Daley. He kept the downtown clean and safe. I have noticed a definite decline since dead fish took over. I suppose it can eventually be reversed as the economy improves.

But this particular project is really overambitious for this city at this time. And I am very suspicious that there is some sort of strategy in play here to turn the post office - with its ideally huge floorplates and EZ on/off expressway access - into a casino, especially with all the planned phase 1 parking.

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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #1022
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True, there isnt a market for this project in Chicago, but to say the city is going to become the next present day Detroit is ridiculous. The economy of the Chicago cbd is far too robust and diversified for that to happen. And it really isnt declining, at least not noticably. More like stagnant than anything else.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 03:00 AM   #1023
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True, there isnt a market for this project in Chicago, but to say the city is going to become the next present day Detroit is ridiculous. The economy of the Chicago cbd is far too robust and diversified for that to happen. And it really isnt declining, at least not noticably. More like stagnant than anything else.
I believe that until some very significant structural changes are made to stabilize the city's and state's daunting fiscal problems, projects of this scope are a pipe dream. No one is going to finance $1.5 billion of retail, rental units, and office space in the south loop.

What are we seeing in Chicago right now? A handful of cheap rental apartment towers and some minimal office space being built on prime parcels in areas such as Streeterville and River North. Chicago, more than NYC or other large cities, experiences significant boom/bust cycles. And Chicago is currently in a deep trough.

If tourists don't feel safe on North Michigan Avenue anymore, Trump can't find a single retailer to open shop for 6 years in his 100%-vacant retail center in Trump Tower, and there are huge vacancies in second-tier locations (such as Block 37 and along State Street), what are the chances of getting 500,000 feet of upscale retail built in a totally subprime retail location like Congress and Wacker? And with all the cheap apartments available closer to the lake, why would anyone want to live in an area which essentially becomes a ghost town after 6pm?

The project makes no sense. I smell a plot to push through a casino.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #1024
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I believe that until some very significant structural changes are made to stabilize the city's and state's daunting fiscal problems, projects of this scope are a pipe dream. No one is going to finance $1.5 billion of retail, rental units, and office space in the south loop.

What are we seeing in Chicago right now? A handful of cheap rental apartment towers and some minimal office space being built on prime parcels in areas such as Streeterville and River North. Chicago, more than NYC or other large cities, experiences significant boom/bust cycles. And Chicago is currently in a deep trough.

If tourists don't feel safe on North Michigan Avenue anymore, Trump can't find a single retailer to open shop for 6 years in his 100%-vacant retail center in Trump Tower, and there are huge vacancies in second-tier locations (such as Block 37 and along State Street), what are the chances of getting 500,000 feet of upscale retail built in a totally subprime retail location like Congress and Wacker? And with all the cheap apartments available closer to the lake, why would anyone want to live in an area which essentially becomes a ghost town after 6pm?

The project makes no sense. I smell a plot to push through a casino.
The city is doing quite fine. I don't know where you're getting the your info from. While I agree there is no need yet for this ridiculous project. The city is recovering very well from the recession.

And as far Trump being empty thats b/c no one in Chicago wants to be associated with Trump.

This development is near the west loop which is growing very fast: http://www.wbez.org/news/west-loop-boom-108122
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Old July 25th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #1025
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Sorry for the ot question, but why does nobody want to be associated with Trump?
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #1026
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Sorry for the ot question, but why does nobody want to be associated with Trump?
Because of his toupee.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #1027
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ROFL
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Old July 28th, 2013, 04:20 AM   #1028
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Wow! It's approved! And to think, Kanto and I were the only ones who had full faith in this "staled proposal" So happy to see the change.. Even happier to know we are one step closer to getting 3 new supertalls in Chicago only making the skyline more breathe taking.

Next Step: CHICAGO | Post Office Redevelopment | 610m | 2000ft | 170 fl | 305m | 1000ft | 92 fl | 305m | 1000ft | U/C
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Old July 28th, 2013, 04:30 AM   #1029
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Sorry for the ot question, but why does nobody want to be associated with Trump?
He is a power-hungry narcissist.
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Old July 28th, 2013, 05:01 AM   #1030
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How was Chicago, man?
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Old July 28th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #1031
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He is a power-hungry narcissist.
He is, and always will be. But you have to give him some credit, a lot of tall towers were being built because of his initiative. In the 80s they killed Trump's Television City Tower (1910 feet, New York) and in the 90s the New York Stock Exchange Tower (2300 feet) was capped. Both were great losses for the city.
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Old July 28th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #1032
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I bet they would've been so epic for the skyline!
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Old July 29th, 2013, 12:04 AM   #1033
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true. I didn't even know of these proposals. It's so long ago.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #1034
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He is, and always will be. But you have to give him some credit, a lot of tall towers were being built because of his initiative. In the 80s they killed Trump's Television City Tower (1910 feet, New York) and in the 90s the New York Stock Exchange Tower (2300 feet) was capped. Both were great losses for the city.
His contributions to the skyscraper world -as magnificent as some of them are- are unfortunately overshadowed by all the negativity surrounding Trump; including leading the birther movement, his stupidity to build a mega golf course in Balmedie on a Site of Scientific Special Interest; the Sands of Forvie, and trying to force nearby residents out of their homes no doubt soured his image among the Scottish. That golf course turned out to be a giant bungled mess as it failed to live up to the promises Trump gloated like only bringing 200 of the 6,000 jobs to the area, and only investing 25 million pounds on the Great Dunes of Scotland. Of course he argues it's because of the Wind Farms being developed nearby, but then again, he should have no say.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-8693854.html

http://www.natureworldnews.com/artic...e-scotland.htm
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Old July 30th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1035
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Wow! It's approved! And to think, Kanto and I were the only ones who had full faith in this "staled proposal" So happy to see the change.. Even happier to know we are one step closer to getting 3 new supertalls in Chicago only making the skyline more breathe taking.

Next Step: CHICAGO | Post Office Redevelopment | 610m | 2000ft | 170 fl | 305m | 1000ft | 92 fl | 305m | 1000ft | U/C
You do understand getting a proposal "approved" by the city is a totally inconsequential non-event in terms of getting anything actually built, don't you? For any serious investors, financing such a risky project in a city teetering on the edge of bankruptcy is laughable.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 09:01 PM   #1036
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You do understand getting a proposal "approved" by the city is a totally inconsequential non-event in terms of getting anything actually built, don't you? For any serious investors, financing such a risky project in a city teetering on the edge of bankruptcy is laughable.
Don't destroy the wet dreams of our fellow Chicago forumers. They need something to hold on. Seing all those new supertalls and skyscrapers popping up all over the place except for Chicago sure hurts ...
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Old July 30th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #1037
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Approval's one step. It is needed if one wants to make the other steps, however it doesn't mean that these steps will be ever made. For now the fate of this proposal remains shrouded in mystery. Will it die? Will it be cancelled? Will it be built? Nobody knows now, but I sure as hell will follow this thread 'til the end, whether it's cancellation or completition
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Old July 31st, 2013, 02:08 AM   #1038
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Don't destroy the wet dreams of our fellow Chicago forumers. They need something to hold on. Seing all those new supertalls and skyscrapers popping up all over the place except for Chicago sure hurts ...
I do think it hurts Chicago's image to be falling so far behind. A mere twenty years ago, Chicago had the world's tallest building and 3 of the top 20 tallest. Its skyline was inarguably in the Top 5 in terms of height and scale, if not beauty. The city, once an innovator, is now a complete architectural backwater in terms of tall buildings. With the rise of Asia and the Middle East, we can not only safely say Chicago will NEVER regain the world's tallest title, but also may soon NEVER have a top 10 tallest building again. The skyline, once the boast of every Chicagoan and certainly Chicago's main claim to fame, will soon compare unfavorably with 3rd tier cities in developing countries across the globe. These cities can quickly build supertalls completely on spec at a small fraction of the cost.

Even in North America, New York has racked up a huge lead in both the quality and quantity of new additions to its skyline - building more in 10 years than Chicago could hope to build in 50. A Chicago/New York "rivalry" is now mere wishful thinking on the part of Chicago boosters. It isn't even close any more, and Chicago should be more worried about Houston nipping at its heels than trying to catch up with a behemoth that's clearly left it in the dust.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 02:35 AM   #1039
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A Chicago/New York "rivalry" is now mere wishful thinking on the part of Chicago boosters. It isn't even close any more, and Chicago should be more worried about Houston nipping at its heels than trying to catch up with a behemoth that's clearly left it in the dust.
When was a New York/Chicago rivalry ever close? New York has twice as many buildings over 500 feet tall than Chicago. I think Miami is nipping more at Chicago's heels than Houston, though a long way from it. Miami just inched out Houston as the 3rd largest skyline over all in the U.S. in the last decade and will leave Houston in the dust in this decade.

On the North American continent, Chicago is actually facing more of a challenge from Toronto and Panama City.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 03:43 AM   #1040
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When was a New York/Chicago rivalry ever close? New York has twice as many buildings over 500 feet tall than Chicago. I think Miami is nipping more at Chicago's heels than Houston, though a long way from it. Miami just inched out Houston as the 3rd largest skyline over all in the U.S. in the last decade and will leave Houston in the dust in this decade.

On the North American continent, Chicago is actually facing more of a challenge from Toronto and Panama City.
Chicago was a close rival to New York City in supertall buildings during the 70s - 90s. For a brief period after the Twin Towers were destroyed, it could be argued that Chicago had a better skyline. Now WTC1 is almost complete and New York city has more supertalls under construction than Chicago has completed. And there is nothing in the pipeline - and I'm including this insane Post Office project that won't be built - in Chicago for this decade that will come even close to 1000 feet. Miami's skyline consists primarily of condo towers. It doesn't have the number of brawny office towers that Chicago has. So I don't really think it compares. Yet...

Houston has a growing population that is already over 2 million people. Chicago is at 2.7 million and falling. They're eventually going to meet somewhere in the middle. Then, Houston will be #3. And Chicago will be #4, like Detroit once was.

Chicago could turn around of course. It's got a diversified economy unlike Detroit. But it does have just as serious a problem with unfunded liabilities. And unlike Detroit, the city has already sold just about everything it can of value (with the exception of Midway) to keep afloat. The state of Illinois is in even worse shape (2nd only to California) and can't bail out the city. Both are city and state are afflicted with one party Democrat rule and everyone involved is playing a game of "I want mine and don't care if everything else has to burn to get it." Frankly, it doesn't look good. And it's getting worse very quickly. Moody's just downgraded Chicago's bond rating an unprecidented 3 grades this month. The Ballerina isn't doing much to help.

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