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View Poll Results: Has architectural modernism failed?
Yes 190 45.13%
No 231 54.87%
Voters: 421. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 25th, 2015, 01:24 AM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Is there anyone saying 'you must like this style or else'? No. There's a lot of people wearing jeans, are they forcing you to look at their clothing, even if you don't like it?


It just comes off as snobbish to suggest that modernism is something people are "forced to look at". I don't understand this pretension of knowing what all people like.
If the evidence shows anything, people like well maintained and well built spaces. Anything else is subjective.
Simply not true. Polls have shown that people generally prefer classically inspired/traditional buildings. It is not simply about well maintained buildings. Take Newcastle for example, two main shopping streets - Northumberland Street and Grey Street. Both identical in terms of upkeep. Very different on the eye - purely on the basis of architecture.

See which one you think is better:

Northumberland Street


Grey Street



Literally a two minute walk from each other, I know which I prefer.
(Pictures not my own)

Other examples which spring to mind is Regent Street vs Oxford Street in London.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 04:10 AM   #642
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The problem with modernism is that it sees itself as the only way of architecture, it doesnt accept anything that is different than itself, if someone was to build a historicist building, a modernist will just entitle it as kitsch and disney-land-like, now i agree that many of those attempts are bad, but this is due to modernism, since universities dont teach traditional ways of building like the classicistic style. It has has also banalized art. Ever went to museum of modern art and wondered how such crap is considered art?? I mean literally theres a "artist" that sold a piece of shit for 200.000$ if i remember correctly.
As far as i know art is something that takes talent and skill, years of learning, and these modern "artists" just throw something together randomly out of anything they find and that is considered, I cant understand how or why, as art! And this banalisation is a logical consequence of modernism.
THIS!
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Old February 25th, 2015, 04:32 AM   #643
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THIS!
If you need any proof of this just have a look at the Hyde Parks Barracks thread in the London forum. A hardcore group of modernazis who can't accept the (potential) building of one traditionally inspired building. It really is absolutely pathetic.
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Is it not cruel to let our city die by degrees, stripped of all her proud monuments, until there will be nothing left of all her history and beauty to inspire our children? If they are not inspired by the past of our city, where will they find the strength to fight for her future? Americans care about their past, but for short term gain they ignore it and tear down everything that matters... This is the time to take a stand, to reverse the tide, so that we won't all end up in a uniform world of steel and glass boxes.

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis

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Old February 25th, 2015, 04:52 AM   #644
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Oh trust me I know! They just feel "better and more intellectual" by not accepting anything classical. Everything has to be steel-glass cubes for them. Luckily, the public wants what it wants and it is mostly classical I have done a lot of contemporary projects and only a few classical ones. Most of my contemporary designs consisted some sort of classicism in them. However, my pure classical designs were sold out before we started excavating. Today's architects look down on public demand and try to create a fantasy world where only the modernist architects allowed to live in. The American architects are somewhat more open minded about classicism but European countries including my home country, Turkey, is crazy about glass cubes. They can't except anything other than steel boxes. Now, we have glass commie blocks popping up behind the Hagia Sophia.

I assume you are British. I have visited the Tate Modern a few years ago. There was huge room, maybe 15mx15m. There was a 30cmx30cm painting hanging on the wall. It was the only thing in the room except a dozen of people staring at it. Guess what was in that painting. Red paint splashes on a white background. I was like, I am done!
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Old February 25th, 2015, 05:03 AM   #645
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I'm sure the novelty and rareness alone of prewar classicism would boost the general opinion over modernism, but I've heard pretty much nothing but scorn for those classical-style McMansions in North America. And those are usually nicely proportioned and built.

Those photos are very different examples. There is like zero clutter in the second photo.
Not to mention the sunset.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 05:15 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by doguorsi2 View Post
Oh trust me I know! They just feel "better and more intellectual" by not accepting anything classical.
Take a look at any of Hed_Kandi's comments if you want to see an architecture snob who doesn't accept anything other than classicism. He will personally insult you if you disagree with his tastes. Who is it that always has to bring up how "awful modernism is" in every 3rd comment? It is the die-hard classicists. You don't see it happening the other way around.

It is the classicists who think they know everything there is to know about what people like.

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They can't except anything other than steel boxes.
Show me one comment that says only modernism must be built, anywhere on this forum. Show me one comment anywhere that says classicism must be destroyed to make way for modernism.
In fact, when has any modernist supporter said that for the past 40 years?
I can't even keep track of all the classicists who said "tear it down" to any modernist building that happened to be somewhat out of place. Restoration of a derelict modernist building is out of the question.

"modernazis", pfft.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 05:25 AM   #647
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As far as i know art is something that takes talent and skill, years of learning, and these modern "artists" just throw something together randomly out of anything they find and that is considered, I cant understand how or why, as art! And this banalisation is a logical consequence of modernism.
How you can tell a snob: they use the word artist with quotation marks.
Dismissing an entire style because they can't, or deliberately avoid, see anything of value in it. And they have the nerve to call modernists nazis.
There was a certain person who deemed all modernism "degenerate art". He's not thought of very well in history.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 05:52 AM   #648
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Thatoneguy, calm down mate. I feel like you will jump on me from the monitor when I read your comments we are just having a little friendly chit chat.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:20 AM   #649
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That would explain why (in my city at least) the most expensive flats are prewar buildings in the historic city center. The only modern (and postmodern) buildings which come close are so expensive either because they are in prewar building districts or have a great view (i.e. a highrise tower or located next to the river or a park).
On the other side, basically all strictly modernism planned quarters in my hometown have been already 20 years after completation become socially troubled areas.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:27 AM   #650
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Thatoneguy, calm down mate. I feel like you will jump on me from the monitor when I read your comments we are just having a little friendly chit chat.
Alright, sure all those hateful classicist comments are ok, sorry for being too "modernazi"
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:37 AM   #651
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Alright, sure all those hateful classicist comments are ok, sorry for being too "modernazi"
Are you breaking up with me?
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:40 AM   #652
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Yeah, but it's not you it's me, I was too snobbish to accept that only classicism is the perfect architecture
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:41 AM   #653
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Yeah, but it's not you it's me, I was too snobbish to accept that only classicism is the perfect architecture
Have a good night man. Cheers
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Old February 25th, 2015, 03:35 PM   #654
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I'm sure the novelty and rareness alone of prewar classicism would boost the general opinion over modernism, but I've heard pretty much nothing but scorn for those classical-style McMansions in North America. And those are usually nicely proportioned and built.

Those photos are very different examples. There is like zero clutter in the second photo.
Not to mention the sunset.
Feel free to google 'Grey Street Newcastle' and you will see it isn't the sunset making this street more favourable over the other...
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Is it not cruel to let our city die by degrees, stripped of all her proud monuments, until there will be nothing left of all her history and beauty to inspire our children? If they are not inspired by the past of our city, where will they find the strength to fight for her future? Americans care about their past, but for short term gain they ignore it and tear down everything that matters... This is the time to take a stand, to reverse the tide, so that we won't all end up in a uniform world of steel and glass boxes.

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
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Old February 25th, 2015, 03:39 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Take a look at any of Hed_Kandi's comments if you want to see an architecture snob who doesn't accept anything other than classicism. He will personally insult you if you disagree with his tastes. Who is it that always has to bring up how "awful modernism is" in every 3rd comment? It is the die-hard classicists. You don't see it happening the other way around.

It is the classicists who think they know everything there is to know about what people like.



Show me one comment that says only modernism must be built, anywhere on this forum. Show me one comment anywhere that says classicism must be destroyed to make way for modernism.
In fact, when has any modernist supporter said that for the past 40 years?
I can't even keep track of all the classicists who said "tear it down" to any modernist building that happened to be somewhat out of place. Restoration of a derelict modernist building is out of the question.

"modernazis", pfft.
Honestly, the only place that I have ever found such 'architecture snobs' are the modenrists on the Hyde Park Barracks thread. They literally cannot accept the building of classically inspired buildings ANYWHERE, not even one.

I prefer classical building but I also like a lot of modern buildings, hell even some fine examples of brutalism. It's the people on here (of either side of the debate), who deal only in extremes, unable to see any merit in the others viewpoint, who have a serious problem and could do with a dose of reality.
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Is it not cruel to let our city die by degrees, stripped of all her proud monuments, until there will be nothing left of all her history and beauty to inspire our children? If they are not inspired by the past of our city, where will they find the strength to fight for her future? Americans care about their past, but for short term gain they ignore it and tear down everything that matters... This is the time to take a stand, to reverse the tide, so that we won't all end up in a uniform world of steel and glass boxes.

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
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Old February 25th, 2015, 03:56 PM   #656
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Honestly, the only place that I have ever found such 'architecture snobs' are the modenrists on the Hyde Park Barracks thread. They literally cannot accept the building of classically inspired buildings ANYWHERE, not even one.
Really.
It's only the modernists saying all classicism is bad. No classicists at all saying that modernist buildings should be torn down, anywhere.
Sure

Frankly it doesn't matter. In my opinion, if you think only your favourite style should be built and that everything else should be demolished or never built again, you're a snob.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 11:00 PM   #657
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I'm not sure it's 'most people' either. There's no evidence for that.
There's certainly more evidence for that than to the contrary, i.e. modernism being liked.

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Maybe 'some people' but that's expected with such a misunderstood style.
Misunderstood? If you need to be a scholar to possibly "understand" the style it has failed. Architecture should be for everyone. Exactly what is being misunderstood never really becomes that clear.

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I'm sure most people only care about a place that's well maintained.
Not really. Older buildings are generally far more popular than modernist creations.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #658
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Could we stop the stereotyping please?

Architecture is far too often seen out of context. Any style can work in different locations, as long as the genius loci, the spirit of the location, is considered. Then any piece of architecture in any given style can work.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 12:22 AM   #659
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Misunderstood? If you need to be a scholar to possibly "understand" the style it has failed. Architecture should be for everyone. Exactly what is being misunderstood never really becomes that clear.
Who said you have to be a scholar? You just need the slightest imagination. It's very simple to understand a building covered in sculptures.

Like I said before, I hated postmodernism until I studied it. I didn't take a 4 year university course on it, I just look a longer, better look and did some backup research, read a few books. That's all it takes.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 01:55 AM   #660
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What did you actually study, after all?
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