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Old August 10th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #41
ilyan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void0 View Post
Why by 2012?
By the end of 2012 3 most difficult stretches of A2 in Poland Swecko-Nowy Tomysl a Strykow-Warsaw and bypass Minsk Mazowecki will be in service like motorway. Stretch by the east of Sedlce in Poland are not overcrowded like stretchs in Moscow and Smolensk regions.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 10:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
4x4 is 16 lanes, 3x3 is 9 lanes. I assume you meant 2x4 or 2x3 ?
I meant 3 or 4 lines each direction, I am not sure how it is should be, 2x4 or 4x4
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Old August 11th, 2011, 01:38 AM   #43
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In my opinion, the eastern part of A2 motorway from Mińsk Mazowiecki to Belarusian border should be needed as late as in 2018, before the World Football Championship.

By that time, requirements of visas for EU citizens to Russia should be abolished too.
Eastern sections of uprgaded national road no. 2 (DK2) have more than enough capacity for those who would like to visit Russia during 2018 Championship by car.

Poland has much more imporant transporation corridors to cover than this one. There are regional roads that have higher AADT than DK2 east from Siedlce or Międzyrzec Podlaski.

I can hardly imagine abolishing visas for whole Russia, including it's troubled south-western regions. We will see how the experiment with Kaliningrad/Królewiec area works out. And even if... last time I checked, there was still one country between Russia and the EU.

Last edited by Jakub Warszauer; August 11th, 2011 at 01:50 AM.
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Old August 11th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #44
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Some pictures of the Belarussian section (from Panoramio). Infrastructure seems to be in good shape.

Between Brest and Minsk:


Between Minsk and Smolensk:


From an infrastructure perspective, the biggest problem on this route lies in Poland, where this will remain the norm for a while between Warsaw and Brest:
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Old August 11th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #45
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New toll road will connect Moscow ring road (MKAD) with M1
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Old August 18th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
We will see how the experiment with Kaliningrad/Królewiec area works out. And even if... last time I checked, there was still one country between Russia and the EU.
It can be hardly named as experiment.
Kaliningrad and Poland had very liberal visa regime before schengen time.
I never have heard about persons from both sides of border who suffered somehow because of kaliningrad people come to polish shopping centers and resorts freely. If you mean smuggling of fuel and cigarettes from Kaliningrad this is problem of course however just visit border cross and observe the reg.plates on smuggler's cars. 99% is polish.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teo-On-Tour View Post
It can be hardly named as experiment.
Kaliningrad and Poland had very liberal visa regime before schengen time.
I never have heard about persons from both sides of border who suffered somehow because of kaliningrad people come to polish shopping centers and resorts freely. If you mean smuggling of fuel and cigarettes from Kaliningrad this is problem of course however just visit border cross and observe the reg.plates on smuggler's cars. 99% is polish.
I have been to the border where Russians (yes capital letter for you) are made to wait FOR DAYS aside by corrupt Russian border guards (often times completely drunk). Appauling sanitary conditions everywhere (people defecate and urinate in ditches). These artificial waiting lines are made for the purpose of extorting money (Russians put up with it because they consider it a cost of doing business).

On the Polish side Polish border police is very efficient (no fake lines or extortions, good facilities, and they have modern equipment) but overworked as they have to oftentimes disassemble entire lorries to look for Russian contraband (drugs, alcohol, human smuggling, radioactive material, cigarettes etc).

I would say the traffic flow is 90% to Poland and 10% to Russia (there is nothing really for Poles to see there as most of Kaliningrad region is a polluted cesspool, only very few areas actually offer anything in terms of touristic value). Most people that decide to venture out there like to do "risky" things -mainstream travellers would never even consider going there. Kalilingrad has a very bad reputation in Poland.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:49 AM   #48
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I have been to the border where Russians (yes capital letter for you)
Thanks, you are following English grammar.
FYI: this thread is not about Kalinigrad
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Old August 19th, 2011, 01:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void0 View Post
Thanks, you are following English grammar.
FYI: this thread is not about Kalinigrad
No it's not indeed but what I am talking about is applicable to all eastern Polish borders as well. The same stuff goes on at Belorussian and Ukrainian checkpoints - Ukrainians being by far the worst offenders in terms of extorting money from tourists.

I would only hope that if in the future there is a highway linking Berlin and Moscow EU laws / regulations and enforcement (or something similar) would be applied at every border post.

Highway will do you no good if your trip takes 10 hours but you are forced to spend 30 hours at the border or pay exorbitant fees and bribes.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 09:22 AM   #50
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Apologies for letting the Kaliningrad/Królewiec episode to continue for a little bit, but I just wanted to make a comment re opinions expressed by the two forumers above.

Teo-On-Tour's statement on smuggling statistics (99% of smugglers' cars allegedly have Polish reg. plates) seems to have been based on the assumption that each Polish car coming back from Kaliningrad must be involved in smuggling.

On the other hand, ufonut's opinions sound as if they were based on hearsay or info from a tabloid.

Quote:
Appauling sanitary conditions everywhere (people defecate and urinate in ditches).
I'm sure you know a saying in Polish, which goes something like "An ox doesn't remember when he was a calf" (nie pamięta wół jak cielęciem był). You might recall some footages on Polish TV not so long time ago (5 or 10 years) showing kilometre-long queues of trucks on the Polish eastern border, where health & safety conditions were also far from perfect.

Quote:
Polish border police is very efficient (...) but overworked as they have to oftentimes disassemble entire lorries to look for Russian contraband
As it's the external EU border, I would've thought they have gates with x-ray and thermal scanners to avoid the need of extensive searching through cargo and disassembling trucks...

Quote:
Kalilingrad has a very bad reputation in Poland.
Well, I suggest you to speak for yourself and avoid generalisation. I personally have never been to Królewiec region before and would have no clear opinion.

Again, sorry for drifting away from the main topic, but just wanted to express my opinion as above.

Regards.

Last edited by ja.centy; August 19th, 2011 at 09:30 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #51
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Moscow-Berlin, 2009
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Old August 19th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #52
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Wow the Russian-Belorussian border :O
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Old August 19th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #53
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I agree with those who preferred route through Baltic states rather than through Belarus.
Many truck drivers admit a bit longer journey through Lithuania and Latvia is better because of Belarus police. I have heard rumours that every foreigner seems for them like a great way for gaining money (something like in Poland in 90ies)... And they seem to be very strict about max. allowed weight of a car. (nothing like that happens in Latvia. Sad because these overweight trucks ruin our roads...). Problems at border points are mentioned too.
Disadvantages of this route:
road from Latvia to Moscow (M-9) is considered to be rather bad than good (some places are so bad that even a usual car can only do slow driving on a shoulder) but probably there are some good sections too.
A big problem is Latvian-Russian border point in Terehova (then end of A12 in Latvia; M-9 from Russia). Waiting sometimes can last for few days!!! But if drivers still prefer this road and waiting in line then probably it's better than driving through Belarus.
Sure, visa is needed.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #54
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Isn't going to St Petersburg just as easy via ferry Stockholm - Helsinki? It's just that I love that ferry so much. A lot nicer then driving through Poland.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:25 PM   #55
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Isn't going to St Petersburg just as easy via ferry Stockholm - Helsinki? It's just that I love that ferry so much. A lot nicer then driving through Poland.
You can get by ferry to St. Petersburg from Helsinki as well
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:45 PM   #56
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You can get by ferry to St. Petersburg from Helsinki as well
Yes, but I can never see the point, when there is a perfectly good route available from Helsinki to St Petersburg. They even offer a shared taxi service from SpB to Helsinki for about 50? euros per person.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:55 PM   #57
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this is why

http://alknet.tiehallinto.fi/alk/raj...ne/e18_en.html

3 - 10 km queues at the Russian border.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #58
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There are 3-10 km queues between Utrecht and Arnhem. Do we now take the ferry from Amsterdam to Cologne?
You still get to deal with customs in Russia as well as in Finland. And if you can manage without a car, there is a train service between Helsinki and Spb twice a day. Fairly cheap - it's a service operated in cooperation with the Russian and Finnish railways. I think that ferry is more for cruise purposes. Ferry between Stockholm and Helsinki is both for cruise purposes and car ferry. I love that boat! A lot of Russian plates on there as well.


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Old August 19th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #59
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There are 3-10 km queues between Utrecht and Arnhem. Do we now take the ferry from Amsterdam to Cologne?
You don't get the problem. A 10 km border queue is significantly different from regular congestion on a motorway. The waiting time could be 5 - 8 hours, especially for goods. Just like an 11 kilometer queue before the Gotthard Tunnel doesn't sound too impressive until you see the delay of 2.5 hours.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #60
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Yes, but I can never see the point, when there is a perfectly good route available from Helsinki to St Petersburg. They even offer a shared taxi service from SpB to Helsinki for about 50? euros per person.
Buses from 15e (there are minibuses also for 30e who deliver you to your address directly), Allegro 92e, ferry from 50e. I regular cross Russian Finnish border by car, it normally takes 45min - 1.5 hours. The minimum time I spend to get from Helsinki to St- Petersburg is 5 hours, the maximum is something like 9 hours. If you avoid Fridays and weekends, border crossing may take less than an hour.

And also don't confuse truck queries and passenger ones, truck queries may be quite long.
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