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Old July 27th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #1621
DeeDub
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post

Really ridiculous. Unfortunately, the City of Miami will probably get what it deserves -- a big Bert Harris Act lawsuit for the inordinate burden that such a historic designation would cause.
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Old July 27th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #1622
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Ok so no gambling for downtown Miami and far more importantly... no gigantic game changing convention center to draw crowds and tax revenue from Orlando. What a shame and a missed opportunity.

Some small part of me wishes this would happen in Lauderdale or somewhere else close by and flourish. Sort of a wakeup call to Miami that "you could have had this is you weren't so corrupt and shortsided".

Of course our politicians can afford to continue to stay that way as long as we voters keep rewarding them with votes at the polls.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #1623
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What a joke, dade heritage trust.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #1624
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Originally Posted by Dale View Post
If I'm Genting I take the hint, pull up stakes and head for greener pastures (which are surely out there).
There should be a significant number of Americans that believe in private property rights.
Resorts World Miami paid $500M for property. No silly Dade Heritage Trust or bureaucratic shakedown should infringe upon their rights.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #1625
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While I don't believe everything I read...it would not be surprising. I know these people.
------------------------------
Dade Heritage Trust In Shakedown Of Genting
By Nick Kakanis

The Dade Heritage Trust opposed casino giant Genting's plans to redevelop the Miami Herald building site in downtown Miami only after the Trust's attempts to extort Genting for a $2 million donation where rebuffed, a source told the Florida Clarion.

The Trust this week asked the City of Miami to declare The Miami Herald building a historic landmark, which would prevent the Genting Group from demolishing the 49-year-old building to make way for new development. The application was submitted by the Dade Heritage Trust, with assistance from the University of Florida's Historic Preservation Program. Historic designation -- which can be imposed without Genting's agreement -- would bar any significant alteration of the building's exterior but would allow additions.

This naked shakedown was in the tradition of the worst of Miami-Dade politics, a shady world in which huge legal and lobbying fees and big campaign donations buy access and influence. Tea Party Miami Chair Eric
Von Tausch has asked the Miami-Dade States Attorney, Kathryn Fernandez
Rundel to investigate.

The building the Dade Heritage Trust is trying to preserve is without architectural merit. The Trust attempted to preserve a building only feet away built the same year by the same architect and the same builder and it was held not to have any architectural merit and was razed. This power play by the Miami-Dade Heritage Trust is brazen and transparent. Genting refused to wallow in the "pay-to-play" culture of Miami-Dade County and City politics. The City designated the Boulevard shops nearby as historically signifigant. The Miami Herald building does not met the criteria-it has no architectural or
historical significance.

Miami needs the jobs and development yet the so called "Trust" stands in the way. The Miami-Dade Heritage Trust is being quietly funded by the "No Casinos" crowd, Disney, the cruise lines, and other special interests who don't want casinos in Miami. The cruise ships that leave Miami all have gambling when they get into international waters. The Seminole Indians have a sweetheart gambling monopoly through their current compact with the State of Florida.

The Dade Heritage Trust objection is not to tearing down a eyesore building- it is to stopping potential development of the down-town area for a world class casino/hotel facility.

All these special interests conspire together to defeat expanded casino gambling in Florida and Genting's plan to transform Miami into an International resort destination. Money was funneled to the Dade Heritage Trust from "No Casinos" by notorious slash -and-burn political operator John Sowinski who fronts for the "No Casino group", funded largely by Disney and the Florida Chamber of Commerce. According to sources Miami car magnate and Tea Party funding megalomaniac Norman Braman, as is Carnival's Micky Arison. The Dade Heritage Trust Refuses to disclose who is funding their efforts.

Full story
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Old July 28th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #1626
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If they're going to shake down Genting then Genting should demand the right to build its casino. There shouldn't be any of this, "We don't want your casino. But since you're here, bend over!"
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Old July 28th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casamagda View Post
While I don't believe everything I read...it would not be surprising. I know these people.
------------------------------
Dade Heritage Trust In Shakedown Of Genting
By Nick Kakanis

The Dade Heritage Trust opposed casino giant Genting's plans to redevelop the Miami Herald building site in downtown Miami only after the Trust's attempts to extort Genting for a $2 million donation where rebuffed, a source told the Florida Clarion.

The Trust this week asked the City of Miami to declare The Miami Herald building a historic landmark, which would prevent the Genting Group from demolishing the 49-year-old building to make way for new development. The application was submitted by the Dade Heritage Trust, with assistance from the University of Florida's Historic Preservation Program. Historic designation -- which can be imposed without Genting's agreement -- would bar any significant alteration of the building's exterior but would allow additions.

This naked shakedown was in the tradition of the worst of Miami-Dade politics, a shady world in which huge legal and lobbying fees and big campaign donations buy access and influence. Tea Party Miami Chair Eric
Von Tausch has asked the Miami-Dade States Attorney, Kathryn Fernandez
Rundel to investigate.

The building the Dade Heritage Trust is trying to preserve is without architectural merit. The Trust attempted to preserve a building only feet away built the same year by the same architect and the same builder and it was held not to have any architectural merit and was razed. This power play by the Miami-Dade Heritage Trust is brazen and transparent. Genting refused to wallow in the "pay-to-play" culture of Miami-Dade County and City politics. The City designated the Boulevard shops nearby as historically signifigant. The Miami Herald building does not met the criteria-it has no architectural or
historical significance.

Miami needs the jobs and development yet the so called "Trust" stands in the way. The Miami-Dade Heritage Trust is being quietly funded by the "No Casinos" crowd, Disney, the cruise lines, and other special interests who don't want casinos in Miami. The cruise ships that leave Miami all have gambling when they get into international waters. The Seminole Indians have a sweetheart gambling monopoly through their current compact with the State of Florida.

The Dade Heritage Trust objection is not to tearing down a eyesore building- it is to stopping potential development of the down-town area for a world class casino/hotel facility.

All these special interests conspire together to defeat expanded casino gambling in Florida and Genting's plan to transform Miami into an International resort destination. Money was funneled to the Dade Heritage Trust from "No Casinos" by notorious slash -and-burn political operator John Sowinski who fronts for the "No Casino group", funded largely by Disney and the Florida Chamber of Commerce. According to sources Miami car magnate and Tea Party funding megalomaniac Norman Braman, as is Carnival's Micky Arison. The Dade Heritage Trust Refuses to disclose who is funding their efforts.

Full story
Shady People.
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Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:47 PM   #1628
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They may be "shady" (or at least have shady motives) but let's also not kid ourselves here that it's merely a few crackpots or misguided preservationists lining up against Genting. We're talking about some of the most powerful, wealthy, and politically connected people in Miami doing this.

Arison, Braman...now you even have Regalado himself taking an anti-Genting stance. The Heritage Trust stuff is just an apparatus they're using to try and get their way. The real power (and the money behind it) is elsewhere.

It may be uncomfortable, but the fact of the matter is we're not being honest or telling the whole story if we assign all blame to Disney or interests outside South Florida. The truth is that a LOT of this opposition is coming from the most powerful quarters right in Miami. And if this all falls apart, we need look no further than our own backyard.

Shameful.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #1629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
They may be "shady" (or at least have shady motives) but let's also not kid ourselves here that it's merely a few crackpots or misguided preservationists lining up against Genting. We're talking about some of the most powerful, wealthy, and politically connected people in Miami doing this.

Arison, Braman...now you even have Regalado himself taking an anti-Genting stance. The Heritage Trust stuff is just an apparatus they're using to try and get their way. The real power (and the money behind it) is elsewhere.

It may be uncomfortable, but the fact of the matter is we're not being honest or telling the whole story if we assign all blame to Disney or interests outside South Florida. The truth is that a LOT of this opposition is coming from the most powerful quarters right in Miami. And if this all falls apart, we need look no further than our own backyard.

Shameful.
Well said....

(btw...I opposed Genting 100% but I am will to change my mind and support them for a measily 10K and a Whopper)

...double beef, w cheese!!
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Old July 29th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #1630
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Originally Posted by theEmbarcadero View Post
Well said....

(btw...I opposed Genting 100% but I am will to change my mind and support them for a measily 10K and a Whopper)

...double beef, w cheese!!
Embarc, You should be ashamed of yourself!!


I'd only take 5k and a quarter pounder w/ cheese!
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Old July 29th, 2012, 03:28 AM   #1631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
It may be uncomfortable, but the fact of the matter is we're not being honest or telling the whole story if we assign all blame to Disney or interests outside South Florida. The truth is that a LOT of this opposition is coming from the most powerful quarters right in Miami. And if this all falls apart, we need look no further than our own backyard.
But of course, its those closest that stand to lose the most economically. Also you forgot to add the hoteliers of Miami Beach to that list.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #1632
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Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
They may be "shady" (or at least have shady motives) but let's also not kid ourselves here that it's merely a few crackpots or misguided preservationists lining up against Genting. We're talking about some of the most powerful, wealthy, and politically connected people in Miami doing this.
I know these people. Even more today.

Recall the City Square project. I was certain that the Herald was sabotaging the retail/parking/billboard plan.
The common wisdom on SSC was "why would the Herald sabotage the City Square plan, they stand to make $220 Million on the sale?!"

Now we see, the Herald made $17M from liquidated damages when the City Square developer did not close, AND another $236M from the sale to Resorts World Miami. They always had the next buyer in their pocket, and the Herald knew that if approval of Billboards did not happen, neither would the financing. Of course their people mobilized to report on the ills of billboards to migratory birds of all things.

When deals have multiple zeros to the right, average and below average bureaucrats become pawns to the established businesses and their cronies. It was one of the downfalls for the City Square project, and this crony capitalism is a major challenge for Resorts World Miami.

Who loses? The people of Miami when developers are so disuaded that they stop building in such a politically risky environment. Thankfully, the Winton/Diaz era turned that tide before. Hopefully the younger generation of leadership can prevent Miami from backsliding to the days of the 1990's when no skycrapers were built downtown.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #1633
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Quote:
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I know these people. Even more today.

Recall the City Square project. I was certain that the Herald was sabotaging the retail/parking/billboard plan.
The common wisdom on SSC was "why would the Herald sabotage the City Square plan, they stand to make $220 Million on the sale?!"

Now we see, the Herald made $17M from liquidated damages when the City Square developer did not close, AND another $236M from the sale to Resorts World Miami. They always had the next buyer in their pocket, and the Herald knew that if approval of Billboards did not happen, neither would the financing. Of course their people mobilized to report on the ills of billboards to migratory birds of all things.

When deals have multiple zeros to the right, average and below average bureaucrats become pawns to the established businesses and their cronies. It was one of the downfalls for the City Square project, and this crony capitalism is a major challenge for Resorts World Miami.

Who loses? The people of Miami when developers are so disuaded that they stop building in such a politically risky environment. Thankfully, the Winton/Diaz era turned that tide before. Hopefully the younger generation of leadership can prevent Miami from backsliding to the days of the 1990's when no skycrapers were built downtown.
Got that right.

We need that resort world miami now, that miami herald building is an absolute eyesore.
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Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

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Old July 29th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #1634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
They may be "shady" (or at least have shady motives) but let's also not kid ourselves here that it's merely a few crackpots or misguided preservationists lining up against Genting. We're talking about some of the most powerful, wealthy, and politically connected people in Miami doing this.

Arison, Braman...now you even have Regalado himself taking an anti-Genting stance. The Heritage Trust stuff is just an apparatus they're using to try and get their way. The real power (and the money behind it) is elsewhere.

It may be uncomfortable, but the fact of the matter is we're not being honest or telling the whole story if we assign all blame to Disney or interests outside South Florida. The truth is that a LOT of this opposition is coming from the most powerful quarters right in Miami. And if this all falls apart, we need look no further than our own backyard.

Shameful.
Because those are the same people that are involved in the 2008 economic bailout.
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Left/Right it doesn't matter anymore, you still get bigger government, no matter who's in power.

Democrips and rebloodlicans aka democrats and republicans, two wings of the same bird of prey

thankfully i'm a libertarian constitutionalist.

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Old July 29th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #1635
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I know these people. Even more today.
But can Dade Heritage Trust just take the building away from Genting just like that? It seems they had their chance before Genting bought it and it's too late in my mind.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #1636
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I think the cut throat dealings of downtown Miami development would make a great television series.....to replace CSI: Miami....

What drama!!!!
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #1637
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Poker not gambling

Interesting article covering a recent NY federal judge's verdict that poker is NOT gambling due to the fact that its based on skill not (just) luck.

http://www.brickellinfo.com/2012/08/...s-world-miami/
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Old October 12th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #1638
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Miami World Resorts

Whats the status on this project? Im brand new to this forum and am intrigued by gentings interests. I heard gambling isnt passing the year It really would help miami eco system by taking tourists money I also love the design of the buildings. Wondering if the miami herald building will still be demolition next year. Gambling in florida would be a plus. bringing in millions daily would help fill the rest of the gaps in the skyline
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Old November 27th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #1639
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Interesting article that I'm sure some of you aren't interesting in hearing about. None the less it's important to "well round" ourselves to all the viewpoints. This ones about Richard Florida (person, not state) on the long term economic dangers of allowing full scale gambling in cities:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/g...icle-1.1206079

The basic jist: costs in crime, local bankruptcies, lost production, etc... exceed those of tax revenues received over any given period of time.


It would be interesting if the studies could compare these results but accounting for cities that already have Indian Casinos within 30 mins drive of the affected metro areas as well as adding added benefits of conventions that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I wonder if that would then tip the balance.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #1640
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The problem in Miami is that we already do have "local" casinos but very few that would attract tourists. Not just Hard Rock and the Miccosukee, but now we have Magic City, Gulfstream, Calder and all manner of dog and Jai Alai venues. Plus there's the adult arcades, boletas and corner bookies. We already have the problem that Florida describes.

A more tourist friendly Casino and convention center would presumably tilt the other way though. It may shift those dollars around a bit, maybe they'll spend a little less at the Dolphin Mall. But there's growth potential there too.
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