The Groningen Thread

[Tramfreak]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

I think that this sort of buildings can safely get through Welstand, it is cheap and easy to build because of zero innovation and it is easy to design because the same has been done 10000x before. I have seen it everywhere - from Vlissingen to Appingedam.

I was naive when I thought that every architect has his own style. In the Netherlands, the definition of style is the preferred width of french balconies

[segwaert]

Groningen should get more tall buildings. The new kempkensberg is a real beauty. Why are such developments only possible near a highway? Why are people in holland so afraid for the modern times and highrises?? I constantly hear the statement that dutch people are innovative, but when it comes to building a lot of people are so conservative.

Originally Posted by TheReconstructer

Did you see what they build in Leeuwarden, Friesland? There they build an enormous tower of 115 meter high, which can be seen from 15 kilometer far away and disturbing the landscape of the northern Netherlands.

That is such a nice building. Too bad it is still standing on its own. There should be more skyscrapers arround it.

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by segwaert

Groningen should get more tall buildings. The new kempkensberg is a real beauty. Why are such developments only possible near a highway? Why are people in holland so afraid for the modern times and highrises?? I constantly hear the statement that dutch people are innovative, but when it comes to building a lot of people are so conservative.

That is such a nice building. Too bad it is still standing on its own. There should be more skyscrapers arround it.

Well, it's not the fact that we (the Dutch people) are afraid to build skyscrapers, but the only problem we have is that the ground is to soft to build enormous towers on. In Rotterdam they can't go higher than 150-200 meters because then the skyscraper is going to lean.

Groningen has some tall buildings too, if you don't count the Martinitoren and the der-Aakerkstoren. Like the Gas Unie et cetera. But they could build more skyscrapers indeed, so it looks more like the biggest city in the northern Netherlands.
But I think they can rebuild the Grote Markt first and than build the skyscrapers at the N7/A7 road and surrounding area, like the Zuidas in Amsterdam at the A10, but in Groningen spread through the west, south, and east-area, so you get an skyline with a few nice skyscrapers and a view towards the Binnenstad with the Martinitoren and the der-Aakerkstoren.

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Tramfreak

I think that this sort of buildings can safely get through Welstand, it is cheap and easy to build because of zero innovation and it is easy to design because the same has been done 10000x before. I have seen it everywhere - from Vlissingen to Appingedam.

I was naive when I thought that every architect has his own style. In the Netherlands, the definition of style is the preferred width of french balconies

I thought every architect had his own style of design, instead of copy the others own work. I think there have to be more architects with their own style instead of this 'fake' architects which copies the others works and change it a bit and then you got a building. Unlucky it works this way with many architects......

[Kiboko]

Originally Posted by Tramfreak

I was naive when I thought that every architect has his own style. In the Netherlands, the definition of style is the preferred width of french balconies

I was naïve by thinking every architect has a vision and every building has its own story, but in the end i experienced that getting orders and money was the only thing that really mattered. There are not many architects who are true visionary artists, most of them are just ordinary businessmen. I guess that the only true progressive visionairs can be found amongst just graduated students. But when they work for a while their idealistic vision is gradually blurred by economics and politics.

Originally Posted by TheReconstructer

Well, it's not the fact that we (the Dutch people) are afraid to build skyscrapers, but the only problem we have is that the ground is to soft to build enormous towers on. In Rotterdam they can't go higher than 150-200 meters because then the skyscraper is going to lean.

So why is it possible in the muddy riverdelta of Shanghai? I thought the composition of the soil here is almost the same as in Holland.

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

I was naïve by thinking every architect has a vision and every building has its own story, but in the end i experienced that getting orders and money was the only thing that really mattered. There are not many architects who are true visionary artists, most of them are just ordinary businessmen. I guess that the only true progressive visionairs can be found amongst just graduated students. But when they work for a while their idealistic vision is gradually blurred by economics and politics.

So why is it possible in the muddy riverdelta of Shanghai? I thought the composition of the soil here is almost the same as in Holland.

Also there are more people giving there houses in old cities an new look in 'old style', by changing the gables, doors, windows et cetera. That people do it to give their cities an asset so the city or village looks better
I think there should come more architects from, you know, which are it worth to design buildings, parks, skyscrapers and many more.
Not those businessmen or businesswomen which do a quick design for a building for the money and the city has one building more to let people live in there or make stores or offices in it.
It's about what you feel for a city to build it and what the city needs when it comes to architecture. Not just pen-paper-build-finish-get your money. It's about think-idea-pen-paper-show it-build-get your money. Especially the first two of all those stepps are very important for how a building is going to look.

PS: what is by the way the highest building in Shanghai? Just asking
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Nothing is possible, even the most impossibe is possible

[Suburbanist]

The problem is that the field for starchitects is limited. By "starchitect" I mean a professional whose own name is enough to attract buyers to buildings they design, a name investors and developers will trust and that can be advertised around. The majority of architects, I'd say 90% of them if not more, just have to make a living like everybody else, and don't have power to change tastes or preferences in meaningful ways, or to introduce new elements and radical new styles.

[TheReconstructer]

There just have to be more 'starchitects'. Someone who cares about the development of a city and/ore village

[Batavier]

I think it is sad that the post-world war buildings on the eastern façade are being demolished. The buildings are typical for the reconstruction era, that makes them quite unique in an historic city like Groningen. By conserving those buildings we preserve the memory of the bombardment and those who perished.
Sometimes it is better not to reconstruct buildings with a terrible history. One the buildings that stood on that lot was the Scholtenhuis, which was used by the German Sicherheidsdienst during the second world war.

As mentioned before, if you want to reconstruct and make the Grote Markt area more beautiful start with the northern facade, the ABN Bank.

[Kiboko]

So what is the story about the tram on the Grote Markt? Is it still going on?

Is it possible to dig a tunnel, just like they did in The Hague? In that case the Grote Markt could be spared from tracks. It could be a huge and impressive project if they combine a tramtunnel with a reconstruction of the northern facade. The tram could go in a straight line from the Gelkingestraat to Oude Ebbingestraat under the ground. Under the square should arise a big station with a junction, with a second line under the Kreupelstraat towards the hospital.

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Batavier

I think it is sad that the post-world war buildings on the eastern façade are being demolished. The buildings are typical for the reconstruction era, that makes them quite unique in an historic city like Groningen. By conserving those buildings we preserve the memory of the bombardment and those who perished.
Sometimes it is better not to reconstruct buildings with a terrible history. One the buildings that stood on that lot was the Scholtenhuis, which was used by the German Sicherheidsdienst during the second world war.

As mentioned before, if you want to reconstruct and make the Grote Markt area more beautiful start with the northern facade, the ABN Bank.

Many people are against the rebuilding of the Scholtenshuis, because of it's negative history. They want to replace it with reconstructions of the houses which stood there before they decided to build that house.......
If it survived WWII they people did hate it so much they demolished it by their own, I read on the website of the Scholtenshuis......

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

So what is the story about the tram on the Grote Markt? Is it still going on?

Is it possible to dig a tunnel, just like they did in The Hague? In that case the Grote Markt could be spared from tracks. It could be a huge and impressive project if they combine a tramtunnel with a reconstruction of the northern facade. The tram could go in a straight line from the Gelkingestraat to Oude Ebbingestraat under the ground. Under the square should arise a big station with a junction, with a second line under the Kreupelstraat towards the hospital.

That's a great idea for Groningen, and the ground is hard enough because Groningen lies at the end of the Hondsrug, one big hill created in the last Ice Age. An great idea, like they did in Rome: an metro through they whole city from north to south, east to west and back .

But I think the Stadjers don't want the same situation like in Amsterdam with the Noord-Zuidlijn: old houses which are going to lean more and more because of the project. But the ground in Groningen is a lot harder than that of Amsterdam.

They also wanted an underground parking station as replacement for the one they're going to demolish because for the Groninger Forum, but that's history because the Stadspartij is against it, 'cause of the fundaments of the Martinitower. They're afraid the tower is going to lean if they do something 100-200 meter in the near of the tower underground...........*sigh*

[TheReconstructer]

Just to make Groningen more look like a city, they could do some things like do something with an metro, the innercity and many more things like skyscrapers along the highway A7/N7.......

[Mimihitam]

Martini Tower

[Kiboko]

^Nice tower, only the lower part doesn't look to good. Maybe it is possible to reconstruct this old house in front of the Martinikerk. Instead of a free standing structure, it can be build against the tower to cover the ugly brick facade at this point. I think it will be a good place for something like a restaurant.


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[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

^Nice tower, only the lower part doesn't look to good. Maybe it is possible to reconstruct this old house in front of the Martinikerk. Instead of a free standing structure, it can be build against the tower to cover the ugly brick facade at this point. I think it will be a good place for something like a restaurant.


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There's already a restaurant in a house which stands in the corner of the Martinitower and Martinikerk. The terrace stands on the place of this former house. But it seems a great idea to reconstruct this house Just to cover the brick front of the tower. Also you have to let remain some space for an terrace because the house behind it will be covered in shadow so it will be less attractive for visitors of Groningen.

[Kiboko]

This is the first design for house on the corner of the Eastside. I'm afraid that my fear for a copy of Zaailand in Groningen comes true. The only good thing about this development is the typical '10s non-sustainable architecture which won't last very long. After 12 years everyone gets bored by it, so after this time Groningen gets a second chance to make things right.

Just have a little more patience...

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

This is the first design for house on the corner of the Eastside. I'm afraid that my fear for a copy of Zaailand in Groningen comes true. The only good thing about this development is the typical '10s non-sustainable architecture which won't last very long. After 12 years everyone gets bored by it, so after this time Groningen gets a second chance to make things right.

Just have a little more patience...

I think this is going to happen to more/all the buildings they're going to design for the East-side........

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by Kiboko

This is the first design for house on the corner of the Eastside. I'm afraid that my fear for a copy of Zaailand in Groningen comes true. The only good thing about this development is the typical '10s non-sustainable architecture which won't last very long. After 12 years everyone gets bored by it, so after this time Groningen gets a second chance to make things right.

Just have a little more patience...

I have such a aweful feeling this is going to happen to more/all the buildings they're going to design for the East-side........

[TheReconstructer]

my opinion about the designs