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Old September 5th, 2013, 07:43 PM   #781
BriedisUnIzlietne
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They didn't want to do any trackworks. That's why it was limited to the width it was built sometime after the 60ies.

This is photographed from where the current island platform is. As you can see, before it was built, there was a platform between tracks 1 and 2 - even more narrow than the current one.
And... Battery powered EMU!!!!
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Old September 7th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #782
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27/08/2013 Belarusian and Latvian Railways to outline areas of joint work in 2013

...it is also possible through electrification of the Smolensk-Vitebsk-Polotsk-Daugavpils-Riga route. This issue is expected to be discussed at the meeting of the heads of the Belarusian and Latvian railways in Riga...

http://www.raillynews.com/category/c...e/375-belarus/

http://belint.by/en/news/2056.html?page=2

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; September 7th, 2013 at 06:16 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #783
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Here is the new PV train rent tender:

http://pvs.iub.gov.lv/show/330950

Below is some articles related to them. For some strange reason google or Bing translator do not work into link transformation. Could someone have time to give short briefing about the articles?

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/j...ursiem.a63859/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/l...-laiku.a63878/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/p...-ar-ca.a64341/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/c...istiib.a63963/


Following train suppliers has been mentioned:

https://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/eng/

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/vehicles/flirt/

http://www.caf.es/en/productos-servi...amilia/civity/

http://pesa.pl/en/offer/electric-multiple-units

http://www.skoda.cz/en/products/elec...ultiple-units/

So let the tender games begin! (Again)

Does anyone care to comment what train should win competition and why? ..I am quite certain that this time the tender is for real and sticks.

..I quess there is no real hurry with the tender since the PRELIMINARY research for AC-works will complete 2014 september.

http://www.ldz.lv/?object_id=5314

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; September 8th, 2013 at 12:52 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
Here is the new PV train rent tender:
http://pvs.iub.gov.lv/show/330950
No - that is the DMU refurbishment tender.
Quote:
Below is some articles related to them. For some strange reason google or Bing translator do not work into link transformation. Could someone have time to give short briefing about the articles?

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/j...ursiem.a63859/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/l...-laiku.a63878/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/p...-ar-ca.a64341/

http://www.lsm.lv/lv/zinas/latvija/c...istiib.a63963/
They are going to rent 25-45 electric trains for 5 years with possibility of buying afterwards. The rent is going to be just as expensive as the previous purchase tender for EMUs and DMUs from CAF.
That is idiotic, that's why they want rent for 15 years, but the law doesn't allow that.
Quote:
Following train suppliers has been mentioned:

https://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/eng/

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/vehicles/flirt/

http://www.caf.es/en/productos-servi...amilia/civity/

http://pesa.pl/en/offer/electric-multiple-units

http://www.skoda.cz/en/products/elec...ultiple-units/
Does anyone care to comment what train should win competition and why? ..I am quite certain that this time the tender is for real and sticks.
Arranged in order.
Škoda might be quite good in our conditions, but the class 441a new model - so might not be very good refined. But should be spacious. More than FLIRT. It would be a nice train to put beautiful livery on. I like the looks of it's front. Although It might have problems, Škoda, as a not very big manufacturer, is probably very interested in good quality and would kindly fix anything.
Stadler. I partly hate it and love it. They have advanced tech and already Finland, Estonia and Belarus has them. I worry about the build quality - they (will?) have a factory in Belarus. A country which products are not famed for quality. The FLIRT model is here for more than 15 years, so should be very refined with most problems gone.
I don't want CAF to win for many reasons.
I doubt PESA's quality. And the trains have very short cars. Too few seats in one car.
And I don't want Hyundai to win as they have NEVER produced low floor EMU's and nothing for our conditions. Only Ukraine's new trains are the closest, but I still would like to see how that turns out.
Quote:
..I quess there is no real hurry with the tender since the PRELIMINARY research for AC-works will complete 2014 september.

http://www.ldz.lv/?object_id=5314
There is a hurry. And we already know which lines will be electrified. No need to wait for it to finish. And it is a RENT deal. If we have some problems with these, we can always replace them after those 5 years with different ones.

Last edited by BriedisUnIzlietne; September 8th, 2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #785
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I have some experience with Stadler Flirts as the entire S-Bahn network here consists of them. Good trains in principle and quite reliable, but I'd say it's a typical commuter train. Not particularly comfortable for long journeys (>1.5 h) and is generally not used for such purposes, at least in Switzerland.

The main factory is in Switzerland, probably most important parts will come from there. What kind of trains countries with a harsh climate (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland etc) have bought in recent years?
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Old September 8th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #786
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Belarus: Stadler flirt (and they have own Flirt factory that start production end of 2013.

Estonia:Stadler flirt
Finland:Stadler flirt
Norway:Stadler flirt
Serbia:Stadler flirt
Lithuania:Siemens & PESA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuan...#Rolling_stock

Estonia has plans to use Flirt in Tallin-St.Petersburg route. Flirt will be altered more into IC usage (better seats, tv, audio plugin, restaurant wagon). Also rumor has it that IC plan exist also for Tallin-Riga route.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_FLIRT#Others

MOST probably Latvian try again in this deal to make someting beneficial and continuum for http://www.rvr.lv/lv/index.html

So I quess Hundai could be it. It is asian company and I quess intrested to enter Eastern-European markets (as well as CAF).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...t_developments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRCS2_multiple_unit

Mighby Stadler is intrested from RVR aswell. Belkommunmash is building as co-operation with some Latvian company trams for Latvian border city Daugavpils. Could be that similar co-operation could emerge in train production also.

..I quess at least Ukraine would be happy to purchase more HRCS2's .

"In winter 2012, Hyundai Rotem suffered the largest reputation blow in its history as all eight of the electric multiple unit trains it supplied to the Ukrzaliznytsia started failing on a daily basis, bringing panic and misery to passengers.[3] The company offered its apologies to Ukrainian passengers, citing its "first winter in the country".[4]"

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...ns-318001.html

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; September 8th, 2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #787
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So everybody is buying just Flirts? Bit surprised that there is no more variety, there are plenty of train manufacturers in Europe after all.

And what the hell is Murva hi-tech? First time I hear this name...
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Old September 8th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
So everybody is buying just Flirts? Bit surprised that there is no more variety, there are plenty of train manufacturers in Europe after all.

And what the hell is Murva hi-tech? First time I hear this name...
It has modular structure, like legobits it can be upgraded all the way up to 200 km/h like in Norway. Price is good in relation of technics. Not many problems either.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #789
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I don't think that Hyundai can offer low floor trains. And if the tender doesn't include the need for low floor then that is just stupid! RVR could just apply with brand new ER2 trains that are exactly the same, just new. And in that case there would be no problems in winter unlike with Hyundai!

I read on the Estonian forum that the FLIRT seats are indeed uncomfortable. Keeping in mind that in a recent survey here PV found out that the thing No. 1 that people would like is better seats, I really hope they won't be FLIRTS. Or Flirts with better seating.
I wouldn't like Belarus-built FLIRTS - terrible quality probably.

I really would like to see the Škoda trains. Maybe in cooperation with RVR.
The Škoda seats in trams and trolleybuses are very comfortable. The least comfy are Solaris seats. The most - old Škoda and Belkomunmash.

Pro Rail Baltica: Didn't you hear that the deal between Belkomunmash and Daugavpils failed? And Lithuania has Škoda, PESA and RVR. Siemens are the freight locomotives.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #790
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True about standard seats, but surely they could install any type of seats one desires. As for quality it depends how well Swiss will be able to control their factory in Belarus. Swiss made trains are very reliable.

About Skoda - who is already using their trains? Are they satisfied?
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
I don't think that Hyundai can offer low floor trains. And if the tender doesn't include the need for low floor then that is just stupid! RVR could just apply with brand new ER2 trains that are exactly the same, just new. And in that case there would be no problems in winter unlike with Hyundai!
I found that Hyundai has fixed it problems and all trains they delivered will have modernisation package ->

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRCS2#....86.D1.96.D1.8F

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
I read on the Estonian forum that the FLIRT seats are indeed uncomfortable. Keeping in mind that in a recent survey here PV found out that the thing No. 1 that people would like is better seats, I really hope they won't be FLIRTS. Or Flirts with better seating.
I wouldn't like Belarus-built FLIRTS - terrible quality probably.
Uh.. But seats are just one lego part in train low tech train can have high quality seats and other way around. It is not about train producer what kind of seats are delivered. Purchaser makes the decision.
-> High quality seats however cost more so company makes decision when it selects seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
I really would like to see the Škoda trains. Maybe in cooperation with RVR.
The Škoda seats in trams and trolleybuses are very comfortable. The least comfy are Solaris seats. The most - old Škoda and Belkomunmash.
I bet Skoda buy them from some supplier and dont make them by self.

Any way I am quite certain that even in this tender RVR co-operation will get additional credits for supplier. Market trends such as Tram-train and low-floor train production in Eastern-European markets are increasing.

Pro Rail Baltica: Didn't you hear that the deal between Belkomunmash and Daugavpils failed? And Lithuania has Škoda, PESA and RVR. Siemens are the freight locomotives.[/QUOTE]
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #792
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That Škoda model is brand new and currently is only used by Czech republic. A similar, double deck version is used in Lithuania, Czech republic, Ukraine, Slovakia. I don't know about the quality and satisfaction. There must be reasons why Lithuania bought them and not Flirts or anything else.

Even if they've fixed the cold problem, the HIGH FLOOR Hyundai's are no good for us.

Of course the seats are produced somewhere else. I'm talking about the quality of standard seats. Not some custom ordered seats but the ones that come in standard.

Last edited by BriedisUnIzlietne; September 8th, 2013 at 05:03 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I have some experience with Stadler Flirts as the entire S-Bahn network here consists of them. Good trains in principle and quite reliable, but I'd say it's a typical commuter train. Not particularly comfortable for long journeys (>1.5 h) and is generally not used for such purposes, at least in Switzerland.

The main factory is in Switzerland, probably most important parts will come from there. What kind of trains countries with a harsh climate (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland etc) have bought in recent years?
Mainly Flirts,as mentioned before.
Sweden is pretty much owned by Alstom,who makes excellent trains but has shown very little interest entering 1520mm gauge passenger train market. So it's highly unlikely to see any Alstom Coradia Nordic family trains in Baltics.
Thanks to it's size and number of companies Poland has really huge selection of new commuter trains - by PESA,Stadler etc.
And Russia has got Siemens trains - Desiro RUS from Desiro family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
...I read on the Estonian forum that the FLIRT seats are indeed uncomfortable. Keeping in mind that in a recent survey here PV found out that the thing No. 1 that people would like is better seats, I really hope they won't be FLIRTS. Or Flirts with better seating.
I wouldn't like Belarus-built FLIRTS - terrible quality probably...
Seriously,those seats aren't THAT uncomfortable. Typical commuter train seats. I personally find them okay,as old ultra-soft seats in refurbished RVR trains were too stressful for back on longer journeys.

Btw,there aren't any Belarus built Flirts at the moment. Closest factory is in Poland and afaik,Belarus plant hasn't been set up yet.
Polish produced Flirts build quality is superb and big portion of Flirt parts still comes from Swizerland and Germany.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Seriously,those seats aren't THAT uncomfortable. Typical commuter train seats. I personally find them okay,as old ultra-soft seats in refurbished RVR trains were too stressful for back on longer journeys.
I find the new bus seats in our DMU's too hard and uncomfortable. And too cramped - some are not by a window. The old RVR seats were nice but had no backrests. But they all were by a window.
The current EMU seats are quite good. Better than the original wooden ones
Quote:
Btw,there aren't any Belarus built Flirts at the moment. Closest factory is in Poland and afaik,Belarus plant hasn't been set up yet.
Polish produced Flirts build quality is superb and big portion of Flirt parts still comes from Swizerland and Germany.
I know that the factory is not set up yet. But by the time our tender will proceed I fear that it might be already up and running.


EDIT: Found a (THE) problem with the Škodas. They don't build wider trains. The Lithuanian and Ukraine ones are just as narrow as Czech ones. With the same number of seats. So instead of 3+3 it will be 2+2 with the walkway just as narrow. Now just imagine that on a sunny day to Jūrmala!
To allow the same number of people, the trains will either have to be 9 cars long or run twice as often. The first possibility is automatically ruled out as new platforms no longer can accommodate trains up to 8 cars long.
I know that the Flirt ones are our width. How about CAF?

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Old September 9th, 2013, 09:12 AM   #795
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From my perspective:
- Škoda (http://www.skoda.cz/cs/produkty/elek...icka-jednotka/) if the tender is big, they can modify, the train.. produced will be in Check republic.
- Stadler, the most tested, produced in PL/BEL.
- Hundai, no actual LF variant for Latvian conditions, Ukraine background, not plesent for them.
- Alstom, no interest in LF variant, coorperetee with rusian TM holding
- Siemens, no interest in LF variant (Lastochka already very heavy trains)
- CAF, posible interested, have trains produced for FI, have expiriense with wider gauge

About producement in Latvia, only CAF or Hundai is interested (if the tender is "big"), but it will be LEGO type building, from spare parts.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armis2282 View Post
From my perspective:
- Škoda (http://www.skoda.cz/cs/produkty/elek...icka-jednotka/) if the tender is big, they can modify, the train.. produced will be in Check republic.
- Stadler, the most tested, produced in PL/BEL.
- Hundai, no actual LF variant for Latvian conditions, Ukraine background, not plesent for them.
- Alstom, no interest in LF variant, coorperetee with rusian TM holding
- Siemens, no interest in LF variant (Lastochka already very heavy trains)
- CAF, posible interested, have trains produced for FI, have expiriense with wider gauge

About producement in Latvia, only CAF or Hundai is interested (if the tender is "big"), but it will be LEGO type building, from spare parts.
I would say Hyundai dealt well their issues. Problems can be also one junction to give customers "world class services" and increase beneficial reputation ->

Modernization http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRCS2#....86.D1.96.D1.8F

January 4, 2013 Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Oleksandr Vilkul held a working meeting with the heads of the Ministry of Infrastructure of Ukraine , Railways , State Enterprise "Ukrainian high-speed railway company" and corporations Hyundai Rotem .

Following the meeting of the South Korean company has developed measures of modernization to address design flaws that led to operational problems. The company guarantees the willingness to eliminate all faults promptly. In particular, the company Hyundai Rotem has their own and at their own expense:

Modernization of roofs and roof all electric equipment;
Modernization switch type current ;
Modernization covering the main part of the train;
Modernization support system through the use of batteries of higher capacity Ukrainian;
Modernization of brakes and brake pipe network;
Replace damaged window frames and brake pads using sets of domestic production. [24]


Looks like Hyundai deals Ukrainias customer problems with respect.

I am CERTAIN that they can deliver low floor trains if they see that this tender is strategical as expansion into European markets with RVR co-operation.

-> Hyundai was also the only one who could deliver the trains with such short notice for football 2012 event.

-> Most of technical stuff nowdays is build from "Legos". Big amount of suppliers, modular structure and global supply chain. It is just how world works nowdays.

BTW Does anyone know to name companies that produce train seats? ..Could some one also put some catalogue links?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
BTW Does anyone know to name companies that produce train seats? ..Could some one also put some catalogue links?
I know that the new seats in our diesel trains are VogelSitze "System 400" bus seats. They are the cheapest soft seats they produce and mainly for intercity bus services (i.e. Rīga - Ādaži). If I would be so desperate as to choose bus seats for trains (and from this company) I would take the coach seats, designed for comfortable long journeys like Rīga - Daugavpils, Liepāja, Rēzekne...
I'm not sure what make are the electric train seats, but the most common ones (as there are 3 kinds of new seats) are very similar to VogelSitze "Arondo".
Their catalog http://www.vogelsitze.com/en/products/bus
Seems to show actual pictures only in Internet Explorer...

So why did PV chose bus seats?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #798
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Tā, atzīstās! Kurš nozadzis veco tiltu pār Aivieksti?
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Old September 13th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #799
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I quess Hyundai is the most interested and best partner for RVR.
By best I mean that it would be quite independent and company representer of EU-markets.

Stadler could also be intrested to create "train production hub" between Riga and Minsk in which cities specialize to EU and IVY production and specified scope of component production.

CAF could be intrested from IVY related markets also.

Production most probably is related into:

* tram-trains (case examples such as Tampere, Turku and other easter-european countries looking for publictrasportation synergies).

* Regional trains which are modified into IC-usage such as Tallin-St.petersburg and such

..I quess rest of the companies are not intrested from RVR at all or least bit?
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Old September 14th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #800
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Kas vēl ir redzējis aplīmetu Pasažieru Vilciena lokomotīvi ar LMT reklāmu?
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