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Old December 24th, 2011, 10:42 PM   #181
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Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Orionol View Post
CY: Haha perhaps that. But the local said that the flowers are poisoned and keeps animals away from the motorway.

oleanders
, right? they are not poisoned, but toxic you can find them along motorways in southern Italy and Croatia, probably in Greece too
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Old December 25th, 2011, 10:42 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
I find even 100 km/h annoying. I drove last autumn on A2 between Villach and Graz and it was extremely annoying to go 130-100-130-100-130-100-...
I agree. More than annoying, I find that dangerous: more so in Germany, when you can go godspeed-100-80-100-godspeed in less than 500 meters...
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Old December 25th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Sponsor View Post
Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.
I haven't been on Polish A6 contrary to Orionol, so I can't judge it. Polish A4's landscapes between Wrocław and Gliwice, & next between Jaworzno and Kraków are quite nice But the nicest current motorway there is Polish A2 between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl, and next between Konin and Stryków.

I also like the landscapes on some sections of:
- the M20 Dover-London in the UK,
- the Eastern part of the German A4 (Dresden - Görlitz),
- the French A10 Poitiers - Bordeaux, A20 Vierzon - Brive-La Gaillarde; A16 Amiens - Le Touquet-Paris-Plage
- the Belgian E42/A15 Charleroi - Liège
- and the Spanish A-2 Zaragoza-Madrid, AP-8 Donostia/San Sebastián - Irún and A-15 Donostia/San Sebastián - Iruña/Pamplona.

Nice landscapes can also contribute to the nice drive

P.S.: We should rename this thread "the best country in Europe to drive on motorways/expressways" What do you guys think ?
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old December 25th, 2011, 11:21 AM   #185
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You're right to point out the good rest stops in France (but very expensive) ! On the Polish A2 and recently on A4, they're very nice too ! Especially if you've got kids - you have playgrounds for them

In Germany and Belgium, what I like in those rest areas: less expensive than in France (especially in Eastern Germany - the Cottbus region). But the Dutch areas - although they're clean - suck big time: too close to the motorway !
When you're in germany: try stopping at an autohof instead of a raststätte. Better food, more facilities and I believe fuel is also somewhat cheaper. I also love the fact that sanitairy in germany is everywhere decent and clean. (even though you have pay for it)

Belgium and the Netherlands must have the worst rest areas, anyway. In Belgium it's often just a big mess, in the Netherlands you often have to beg for a key for the toilets!
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Old December 25th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #186
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Really? C'mon, it's not that bad, especially the part between Belgrade and the Croatian border. It's worse between Belgrade and Nish, but still acceptable compared to the Bulgarian motorways. In that case, you should never ever drive on a Bulgarian motorway, except the newly-opened sections.
Come on, you're being too pessimistic and critical about Bulgarian motorways. Most of them are good or ok. They were quite worse few years ago, but there now aren't so many potholes, mostly problematics are asphalt patches, that are not smooth enough.
The worst motorway I have driven on is on Macedonian M1/E75 between Skopje and Veles... There were so many and so deep and so dangerous potholes, that speeds over 70-80 km/h were really unreasonable.
I really liked driving on Austrian motorways more than on German. Not because there is any so specific difference, but the scenic mountain views around were marvelous.
Also have driven on French, Hungarian and Serbian motorways. On Serbian and especially on Macedonian motorways I find the toll boxes rather annoying, as they are too often and slow down a lot the whole travelling.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #187
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But the nicest current motorway there is Polish A2 between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl, and next between Konin and Stryków.
Between Konin and Stryków?

source: www.panoramio.com

Well, it's just matter of taste but I guess you meant Konin - Koło section

Talking about landscapes there are plenty of scenic routes everywhere but in Poland (Scandinavia, Central Europe, Balkans, West Europe, Spain).

Personally I haven't driven too many of them actually driving a car, just A4, A2 and A9 in Germany. The last one was the most impressive at section entering Bavaria. Among polish: A4 Wrocław - DE and A2 Konin - Koło, S1 CR - Bielsko-Biała are my favourites.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 04:52 PM   #188
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I do NOT vote for Germany:

I prefer relaxed driving, and that's not possible on German Autobahns. The main problem is when there's no speed limit. It is not possible to drive constantly with a speed which is fuel saving on the one hand and fast enough on the other hand. Example: On a 2-lane-autobahn the right lane is full of trucks. When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph. That makes the overall driving atmosphere more stressful than for example in France or the Netherlands where they have general speed limits.

The pavement (at least where I regularly drive) is not that great, too.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #189
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I agree. I always found driving in France much more relaxing than in Germany. I mean driving fast is fun, but for like an hour. If you have a long drive ahead, it can be quite tiring.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #190
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When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph.
That is true. The polite Germans turn mad at the motorway sign, and the motorway traffic is kind of a cat and mouse game.

What is more interesting, an average speed of 120 kph is easily achievable on the French motorways. The traffic flow on the German autobahns usually suffers from repeating and sudden traffic shocks, and the average speed seldom is more than 100 kph.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 05:56 PM   #191
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Definitely Belgium. With all those traffic jams..
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Old December 25th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Sponsor View Post
Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.
I find the Polish motorway beautiful due to nature around the road. In the A6, you can almost see the whole Szczecin (or parts of Szczecin, in some moment), which is really amazing because Szczecin is a wonderful city. The S3 is also beautiful because that motorway isn't surrounded by nothin, you can see the horizon. S3 is peaceful and calm road to drive on (I don't really know if it is a motorway, but I judge that road as a motorway, because for me it looks like a motorway).
A4 is also very beautiful, especially when you drive on the Silesian part (big and many cities).

E6 in Sweden is also beautiful (one of the most beautiful roads in Sweden), because you can see Denmark, Malmö, the Öresund bridge and Turning Torso. But I'm starting to get bored when I drive on the E6, so many times between Helsingborg and Malmö, and now for me this road isn't so special anymore. But for newcomer, this road is a beauty.

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Old December 25th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #193
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Between Konin and Stryków?
(...) Well, it's just matter of taste but I guess you meant Konin - Koło section (...)
I mean the whole section, the building of which is a bit similar to the new Western section of the A2. Animal bridges and colored ones are fun


Quote:
Originally Posted by LT1550 View Post
I do NOT vote for Germany:

I prefer relaxed driving, and that's not possible on German Autobahns. The main problem is when there's no speed limit. It is not possible to drive constantly with a speed which is fuel saving on the one hand and fast enough on the other hand. Example: On a 2-lane-autobahn the right lane is full of trucks. When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph. That makes the overall driving atmosphere more stressful than for example in France or the Netherlands where they have general speed limits.

The pavement (at least where I regularly drive) is not that great, too.
IMHO it's all a matter of the way you drive. You can’t possibly stay on the left side like they do it here, in France !
I drove – in the past – cars which did not allow me to drive constantly over the 130 km/h advisory speed limit, and nowhere I felt stressed. German drivers wait patiently until you go back to the right side (especially on 2x2 motorways) without pressuring you. If the stress you mean is watching your side-mirror before changing lanes, then driving anywhere shall be stressful for you
Moreover, from my experience in that country, when the pavement is not good, there are speed limits (100 or 120 km/h) …

P.S.: Which country do you vote for then ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I agree. I always found driving in France much more relaxing than in Germany. I mean driving fast is fun, but for like an hour. If you have a long drive ahead, it can be quite tiring.
One thing is true: when I enter Germany, I’m always happy and like “FINALLY I can drive according to my own tempo”. But when I’m at the other end of Germany I’m often tired.

BUT Germany has this advantage you can drive at the speed you want. I'm tired just because I always choose to drive 200 km/h if not above on German motorways (which I can't do here in France). Moreover, nobody forbids you to drive 110 km/h if you want to, when in my country - France - you’d better watch your speedometer.
Relaxing you say ? I prefer staying fully concentrated driving at higher speeds than driving at a ridiculous (comparing to the car I drive) constant speed *not by choice*, watching my speedometer all the time and getting asleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
That is true. The polite Germans turn mad at the motorway sign, and the motorway traffic is kind of a cat and mouse game.

What is more interesting, an average speed of 120 kph is easily achievable on the French motorways. The traffic flow on the German autobahns usually suffers from repeating and sudden traffic shocks, and the average speed seldom is more than 100 kph.
Quite hard to compare - in the case of traffic flow - Germany which is smaller than France and has around 20million more inhabitants. Moreover, Germany is a polycentric country, whereas France is a centralized country (almost everything and 1/5 of the population is in the Île-de-France region).
But if you drive on French motorways when everyone goes/returns on/from vacation, and get into a big traffic jam around a big city or before a péage, I bet you won’t even achieve an average speed of more than 80 km/h ... Not mentioning that our tolls are horribly expensive.

Moreover, it’s not true that Germans turn mad at the motorway sign. The vast majority of them drive according to the Richtgeschwindigkeit (advisory speed limit), that is up to 130km/h. Why ?
1) Because no-limit motorways are nothing new to them and
2) Because a lot of them certainly tries to save fuel !
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!

Last edited by GROBIN; December 25th, 2011 at 06:16 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 06:36 PM   #194
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One thing is true: when I enter Germany, I’m always happy and like “FINALLY I can drive according to my own tempo”. But when I’m at the other end of Germany I’m often tired.
Then why does your user title say: conducteur infatigable ?

Last edited by Jeroen669; December 25th, 2011 at 08:21 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #195
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Another disadvantage in Germany: Since they've opened the borders up with Eastern Europe, Eastern Europeans clog up the autobahns with their often bad driving skills. No offence intended - but Slovakians, Romanians, Poles and Czechs haven't got a clue on how to use a motorway properly, especially not in Germany, where it is of vital importance to keep to the FAR right unless overtaking. I saw it again at 7 in the morning today - a quiet Christmas morning on the A8 between Rosenheim and Munich. And who are hogging the middle lane? A couple of Poles and Romanians (and one Austrian with a KB - Kitzbuhel plate. But within Tyrol, they are known to be bad drivers.) I probably get a lot of comments now from Poles, who believe they are great drivers - the same ones who think that Germany is the best country to drive in, and that the A4 in Poland is God's Own gift to the Polish people.

Bad influence to the Germans as well. In the old days, they used to drive fast but disciplined. These days, a lot of them are making the same mistakes, to which they were blaming the Dutch decades ago, who do have rather good lane discipline today.

Last edited by Road_UK; December 25th, 2011 at 07:02 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #196
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From my short experience in the european motorways I definitely choose France. Excellent motorways, speed limit 130 (it could be even a little higher in most cases) and excellent service and rest areas which are an invitation to stop The tolls are expensive but in the end we do not feel cheated.

The others I know, from best to worst:

Luxembourg: OK, they have a really small motorway network but it is in fabulous condition (and almost all illuminated by night)

Portugal: here in Portugal we have two "classes" of motorways: the first are granted to Brisa and can be compared to the best ones in Europe - relaxed driving, very good maintainence and good service areas. The others are the ex-SCUT, granted to other companies that in general make a poor mainteinance.

Spain: some of the new autovías and autopistas are simply great, but in mountainous areas... It's just a sacrifice to drive in the Basque country, for example. Ah, and I specially dislike those vias de servício next to the autovías with restaurants and hotels looking very doubtful...

Switzerland: a lot of tunnels and some sharp curves but the network is in general very well maintained.

Belgium: a complete disaster in my opinion: very bad maintenance, some ridiculous signage and radars all over the place.

I was also in Germany and Italy but I don't know enough to do a proper evaluation.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #197
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(...) I probably get a lot of comments now from Poles, who believe they are great drivers - the same ones who think that Germany is the best country to drive in, and that the A4 in Poland is God's Own gift to the Polish people.
No, you won't. You're certainly entitled to express your own opinion, which is just an opinion though.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #198
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Spain: some of the new autovías and autopistas are simply great, but in mountainous areas... It's just a sacrifice to drive in the Basque country, for example. Ah, and I specially dislike those vias de servício next to the autovías with restaurants and hotels looking very doubtful...
Ahah, you're right, I forgot about vias de servicio... I stopped at one rest area on the A-7 near Lorca and I felt I was in Mexico in 19th century...
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Old December 25th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #199
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definitely not germany : there isn't a single month when one can't see a giant deadly pile-up involving tens of cars in a so-called autobahn.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #200
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Road_UK - it would be hard to overthrow your mind, so I won't try. It's just a stereotype, which works in your head. But from the other side: why are you still complaining and inventing new things, which perhaps make you angry for these evil and stupid Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians and other habitants of "Eastern Europe"? Calm down, because by such texts you're only irritating these poor people and yourself. You may not place a new "iron curtain", which would be able to stop their invasion for "West".

Something for these, who still advert "cultural" driving with keeping right lane if it's just able - what I've seen on A8 near Munchen. It was winter time, road was still busy. It hadn't prevented drivers for overtaking, but I haven't any complaints for this fact - only for its manner. Lots of them were jumping from right lane, by the middle, to left, and if road became more empty for moment or they decided to turn into a gas station (also for Austrian vignette - because Austrian motorways are - what a pity! - paid) , they went back to the right. It enforced a big attention and multitude drivers were giving entrance for them (like some incentive for this behavior). But one moment I... stopped. There was a traffic jam - dued by this perfect and dynamic driving style. This situation returned a few times in about 100-km long stretch.

And what I've seen in whole Italy, from Udine area to south: if you want drive slow - you're keeping right lane, faster - central one, more faster - left. Drivers keep safety interspaces, where you can drive in, if you need - but then you should reduce your speed. Traffic jams? Only on busy interchanges and - what a pity! - toll plazas.
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