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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #401
Penn's Woods
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I think they've already made back the money they lost building the tunnel just by the fact that the whole area has become more attractive...

I guess the ceiling tile falling was just a coincidence. Have the numbers of crashes risen on that part since the tunnels where build?
The area wasn't that unattractive before. (Yes, the immediate elevated structure was a barrier and a bit of an eyesore, but if you got any distance at all from it, you were in the financial district or tourist areas like Quincy Market, or on the waterfront.... I'm not doubting that tearing down the elevated structure raised the value of the land in its actual path, just saying that the areas it ran through were by no means a slum....) No idea about making back the money, or crash statistics (actually, I doubt there's been an increase in crash statistics, but the ceiling tile incident got a lot of media attention) - sounds like you may be better informed than I am. I just know this as a roadgeek and citygeek who likes Boston (but doesn't get there as often as I'd like) and pays casual attention to the news...I've seen enough headlines about cost overruns over the years.... I'm sure you can get more information from Wikipedia, as a starting point.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #402
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Well that's a surprise for me. If only heard nothing but good of freeway coverups here in Europe and area's that used to be totally unatractive now see lots of new building ect... Ok, they cost lots of money, but in the end it seems worth it.

I know it's wasn't really bad in Boston, but just look a the parks that came in place
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #403
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Why not ,access to Phillys waterfront is cut off by this monster highway....that shouldn't be that way...it would be the portion between the Ben Franklin and Walt Whitman Bridges... Developers and the city have expressed interest in reuniting Center City with the waterfront. 676 would also be covered.
"Access to Phillys [sic!] waterfront" is not cut off. Through Center City (or to be more precise Old City/Society Hill) 95's already in a cut, partially already covered by parkland. I used to cross it all the time on walks and runs. I thought you were suggesting not just putting it underground, but removing it altogether. Which I don't think is a good idea. EDIT: especially since you completely glossed over the question of where it would be rerouted to....
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #404
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Well that's a surprise for me. If only heard nothing but good of freeway coverups here in Europe and area's that used to be totally unatractive now see lots of new building ect... Ok, they cost lots of money, but in the end it seems worth it.

I know it's wasn't really bad in Boston, but just look a the parks that came in place
Here's that Wikipedia starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#Boston
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #405
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I also must say that I do not have much experience or knowdledge about these tunneled freeways either. I only drove a few times through Brussels wich has only partially tunneled urban expressways. I wish they tunneled them all though and made a full connection between E40 east and E40 west of the city so that the R0 can be released a bit of the heavy traffic.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #406
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Here's that Wikipedia starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#Boston
Thx. Well nobody can predict things that go wrong during the construction process...
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Old January 8th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #407
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Covering trench highways is easy if you don't mean a total cover. Otherwise, you need safety systems, additional ventilation systems, firefighting systems, and that all increase costs.

I drove in R0 (Bruxelles) yesterday, almost the full ellipse and I was appalled by the condition of some viaducts, which I will wrote about in the Belgian thread!
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Old January 8th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #408
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There will be holes , but they will be small , and fans will be added.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #409
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Covering trench highways is easy if you don't mean a total cover. Otherwise, you need safety systems, additional ventilation systems, firefighting systems, and that all increase costs.

I drove in R0 (Bruxelles) yesterday, almost the full ellipse and I was appalled by the condition of some viaducts, which I will wrote about in the Belgian thread!
The Belgian international thread? No new posts there. I'll check the belgian subsection
Well, They really need upgrades. But Flemisch gouvernment also want's to widen the R0, so these upgrades won't happen untill they are going to widen it. Yet this will probably not happen either since a bunch of hippies (GROEN!) and the Brussels gouvernment do not want a widening of the R0. Yet it's so much needed
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #410
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I'm wondering if a rail rapid transit line can be an alternative for a cancelled expressway/freeway. Have there been any occurrences of a light rail line or a metro line replacing a cancelled freeway?
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #411
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I'm wondering if a rail rapid transit line can be an alternative for a cancelled expressway/freeway. Have there been any occurrences of a light rail line or a metro line replacing a cancelled freeway?
I don't think so. A highway serves also for freight traffic while a PT line obviously not. However, an efficient PT network may reduces alot the private passenger traffic and made road widenings not necessary. PT may be useful to reach workplaces, schools, offices, universities, etc... but is less efficient for shopping malls, where the car is more practical to carry heavy and bulky merchandise.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #412
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I'm wondering if a rail rapid transit line can be an alternative for a cancelled expressway/freeway. Have there been any occurrences of a light rail line or a metro line replacing a cancelled freeway?
They did in Boston with the Southwest Freeway which was canceled and now carries a Subway and 4 Regional Rail Tracks.... Other than that not much , even the Freeways which will be removed other the next decades will only see Bus Rapid or Light Rail going in there place if anything.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #413
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Baltimore has a proposed light rail line titled the "Red Line" which has a corridor that includes the depressed freeway section left over from the cancellation of Interstates 70 and 170 within the city limits. The Interstate 170 freeway was built to accommodate a transit line in its median.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #414
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The cancellation of the Mount Hood Freeway is what got Portland into light rail, though the rail line that nominally replaced it runs along I-84 rather than in the corridor of the cancelled freeway. And the Washington DC Metro in effect replaced an entire network of freeways inside the Beltway. The same argument could be made about MARTA in Atlanta. Still, construction of a new rail line on an already-acquired freeway ROW is rare. Is Boston's Southwest Corridor the only example in the US? Maybe so.

A rail-only alternative was studied for the GA 400 corridor in north Atlanta, but it was rejected.

And now for something completely different:

Recently I've been working in Charleston, SC, and there there's been a lot of debate over what's misleadingly called an extension of I-526 from its current western terminus to the southern end of the SC 30 James Island Expressway with its bridge over the Ashley River into central Charleston. I say misleading because the project now includes at-grade intersections instead of interchanges:

Here's a detailed plan (13.6mb)

Recently both the state and city governments have turned against the project, mainly because of its $500m cost (of its 9.5 mile length, 5 miles would be on bridges, mostly over wetlands), though the mayor of Charleston doggedly supports it. Apparently the public hearings attracted massive public opposition, but a recent survey found massive support, at least among residents of the areas it would serve most directly:


EDIT: I posted in this thread because some version of this road has been proposed since the late '60's.

Last edited by Tom 958; November 10th, 2012 at 02:04 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old November 10th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #415
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Quote:
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I'm wondering if a rail rapid transit line can be an alternative for a cancelled expressway/freeway. Have there been any occurrences of a light rail line or a metro line replacing a cancelled freeway?
There is a section of a cancelled reroute ROW and bridges for an upgraded I-80 in the northeastern part of Sacramento, CA USA that now carries transit trackage.

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Old November 18th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #416
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Really, even a car crawling at 15 km/h speed will be faster than any human walking and most humans cycling.
A dubious proposition, I am afraid. I am often passed by cyclists when stuck in traffic.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #417
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Yes, at points, but the overall trip by car is usually still faster. Just like people in a train passing a traffic jam and thinking their trip is faster. It usually isn't (door to door).
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Old November 18th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #418
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Door to door car can be faster even than plane on distances over 1000km, and it is almost surely more cost-effective if there are more than 2 persons in the car. For example I travelled Bucharest-Dresden by plane to Munchen and then by train (there is no direct flight connection from Bucharest to Dresden and the flight Bucharest-Munchen-Dresden costs a lot) in 14 hours door to door. By car I usually do the distance in 17-18 hours and when more sections of A1 in Romania will be ready 15 hours will be possible. But going by car brings the main advantage of having the car with you there.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #419
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Yes. My boss did a test once. (For those of you who are not aware of this: I am a European express delivery driver in a van - UK-Europe-UK)

There were two different jobs to Barcelona from the UK. So he sent one pallet in a van for door-to-door delivery, and he sent one pallet on a plane as airfreight. The pallet in the van made it to Barcelona well before the pallet on the plane did...
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Old November 18th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #420
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Brilliant.

I see someone fixed the thread title (which was a really annoying one....)
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