daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 14th, 2011, 02:51 PM   #141
Nima-Farid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shiraz-Abadeh
Posts: 946
Likes (Received): 13

Welcome to the eighth page!!!
Nima-Farid no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 14th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #142
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,459
Likes (Received): 1936

And a "Last page" has been added!

BTW, your links only give a overview of the US.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #143
Nima-Farid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shiraz-Abadeh
Posts: 946
Likes (Received): 13

I wanted to be more general. If you go to the first page you see that I talked about Toronto and Paris.
Nima-Farid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 04:11 PM   #144
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,245
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by Substructure View Post
And that's if we don't go through an energetic breakthrough. There is energy everywhere, from energy cords in the universe to the primordial energy that move subparticles inside atoms.
If we can harness that, if we can find a clean, abundant, free, new energy, there will be no reason for us to live like sardines in a concrete jungle.
But by then, hopefully our lives will be more meaningful than transporting our body in a metal box (train/car/bus) twice a day from a concrete box (house) to another concrete box (office).
Some people actually like being around other people, and the opportunities that such concentrations of people provide. I don't understand this "everyone must live in suburbia!" crap (or the assumption that everyone would want to if they could) any more than the opposite.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #145
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,245
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarneGator View Post
Noticed this and couldn't help but make a correction: the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad, predecessor to today's PATH, was the first permanent connection across the Hudson River, predating Penn Station and its tunnels by two years. Sure, you had to transfer at Hoboken from one train to another to reach Manhattan, and it didn't have the sort of radical effect on Midtown real-estate that Penn Station did, but it was the first.
I wasn't thinking of the H&M since I consider that a transit system rather than a railroad, but you're right. But 1909 vs. 1911, we're still basically talking the same time period.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #146
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima-Farid View Post
Autostradas and Superstrada's of Roma proposed based on vurrent wide roads and possible corridors
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?hl=en
Part of the inner Rome's ring already exist. It was built in the 70s as elevated expressway and now there are plans to build it underground.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #147
Nima-Farid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shiraz-Abadeh
Posts: 946
Likes (Received): 13

I drew some parts of it based on that ring.
Nima-Farid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 04:56 PM   #148
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

The 1960's was the most ambitious decade in the Netherlands in terms of motorway development. Many sections opened, and even many more began construction, leading to a motorway completion boom in the first half of the 1970's. Construction rate dropped considerably after the mid-1970's, due to the oil-crises, lack of money and the higher construction costs.

Below is a 1966 planning map. It's important to note that this was planned for the next 40 years, and not all routes indicated were actually planned as motorways, but as main roads. It was also projected the Netherlands would have 20 million people in the year 2000, while it was closer to 16 million in reality. The map shows a really high density of higher standard roads. Many of these weren't build. Especially of notability is the number of river crossings in the central parts, most of which weren't build, something that haunts the Netherlands to this day. It's also important to note that back in those days construction costs were considerably lower than today (even inflation-adjusted), comparable to what we saw in Spain in the early 2000's, when even low traffic volumes made a motorway profitable.

ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #149
Nima-Farid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shiraz-Abadeh
Posts: 946
Likes (Received): 13

Very nice!
It looks like a very big city
Nima-Farid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #150
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Well, with 20 million people the population density would have been 500 - 600 inhabitants per km². Imagine an additional 4 million people compared with today. The western half of the country would've been mostly urbanized. It would be comparable with a whole Rotterdam - The Hague metropolitan area extra.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #151
RV
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Porvoo
Posts: 726
Likes (Received): 275

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima-Farid View Post

So much cancelled
Yes. The environmental activists of the 70's and the first Oil Crisis hit really badly this projects; by 1973-1975 they thaught that new motorways won't be needed in 50 years. By the time they noted this was not true the opposition was so strong that most of the plans were forced to be abandoned.

Only the blue part of the left (Mallaskatu tunnel ramp, 1968-1970(?)) and the right one (Hakaniemi expressway-like bridge section with two interchanges, 1961), were actually constructed.

Actually, the inner west-east corridor was to be used as the corridor of the Central Tunnel, whichs plans were abolished in a votation because of The Greens, commies and SDP in 2008 (). One day it took 49 minutes me to drive 2 kilometers in central Helsinki, and all they do is quit lanes Esplanadi and Mannerheim avenue used to be 2x3 back in the 90's...

Last edited by RV; September 15th, 2011 at 05:22 PM.
RV no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #152
Nima-Farid
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shiraz-Abadeh
Posts: 946
Likes (Received): 13

Don't the Greens and environmentalists know that in traffic in central parts of the city the pollution is much more than a free flow traffic?
Nima-Farid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 01:09 AM   #153
Peines
Peter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 873
Likes (Received): 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima-Farid View Post
Don't the Greens and environmentalists know that in traffic in central parts of the city the pollution is much more than a free flow traffic?


Those persons are the typical kind of person who are bad drivers and hates cars and motorbikes… at least in my area, Elche & Alicante (Spain).

I'm preparing a video about the inefficient designing for the low gas consumption of the vehicles in the motorways and the dual-carriageway'n'roundabouts (also known as "via parque" or "that shit") around my home.
Peines no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 01:26 AM   #154
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 292

Birmingham (UK) was the car centre for England...

Motorways pretty much went everywhere. The inner ring road was pretty much a motorway that ran through and around the city centre. Most of it was removed in the late 90s due to it being unpopular...

But here is an idea of what someone who was car crazed could do...

a lot of it is again upgraded existing roads...
The west midlands are pretty hard to design roads for as there are several centres all close together. There ends up being a lot of short motorways...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msi...72865,1.454315

__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 03:18 AM   #155
dmn42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 6
Likes (Received): 1

Building a new cross-town highway in Manhattan in the style that was proposed by Robert Moses is a non-starter. For one, there's the expense of demolishing whatever buildings are in the way. And then there's the negative impact on the community: noise, pollution, a reduction in land values, and the impact of having a massive, ugly elevated structure creating an artificial barrier that cuts a neighborhood in two. It would be one thing if we were talking about an underground highway, even a cut-and-cover one that was covered by parkland - I'd be all for that (I'm a big fan of what Boston did with the Big Dig, from a purely conceptual standpoint - the cost issues are another matter, of course). But there are too many existing obstacles at that depth for it to work.

There are a couple of I could realistically see getting done. One would be to improve the West Side Highway south of 59th by separating it into local lanes above ground and express lanes below - right now there are too many lights. That could be done at a shallow depth (I think, barring interference from tunnels, but even that's not a complete obstacle). The other is to do a tunnel from New Jersey to Long Island through Midtown - six or eight lanes would probably suffice, and it would have to be a deep bore. But it would only be able to have two interchanges on it - one for the West Side Highway, one for the FDR. Not only is there no room to build them in the center, but the street structure isn't set up to handle the traffic going in or out.

Other than that, the cross-town situation is likely going to stay the same, and to be honest it really isn't that bad - you can get across Midtown in about 15 minutes, and it's much better elsewhere. The uptown and downtown routes are mostly adequate as well - the lights on the avenues are synchronized for good traffic flow (I can routinely go 20 or 30 blocks without running into a red light), and the FDR and West Side Highway generally do pretty well outside of rush hour.

Yes, driving through Midtown sucks, but what can one really expect? New York isn't a city designed around the car - it's a walking and subway city. It makes little sense to spend lots of money ripping up the city to make it easier to drive through when there's already a far easier way of getting where you need to go. The coverage of the public transport is generally excellent (yes, the East Side is somewhat lacking, but that's in the process of being fixed), and there's really no need to use a car for general-purpose getting around. And when one does need a car, there are plenty of taxis, and now there are car-share programs that are perfect for that sort of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
...Although I submit that the express lanes of the Roosevelt Boulevard should be depressed and made into a freeway. The road as it exists today is a danger to everybody and absolutely suicidal for pedestrians.
If you're talking about Queens Boulevard, I would definitely agree. Unfortunately, there's a subway line under there, so I'm not sure how feasible it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The main problem in the New York City area are not the number of lanes per se, but the outdated alignment of many expressways and parkways, plus the low-capacity interchanges.
The interchanges are indeed a killer - it's very common to have backups on the highways simply because of people getting stuck behind the line of cars trying to get off. The I-95/I-87 interchange is horrible at any time of day. But I'm not really sure that can be fixed, since many of them are crowded in as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
Cars still make the majority of NYC congestion, trucks are a problem and they tear up the roads but I always see more cars than trucks. Even if by your logic trucks make up the largest congestion transit wouldn't solve that.
If you could solve the problem of trucks double-parked in traffic lanes for loading and unloading, you'd go a long way toward reducing the congestion on Manhattan streets. I'm not sure how you'd go about doing it, since deliveries do need to be made, but it would be a huge help.
dmn42 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 03:32 AM   #156
I-275westcoastfl
Registered User
 
I-275westcoastfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 6,148
Likes (Received): 790

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmn42 View Post


If you could solve the problem of trucks double-parked in traffic lanes for loading and unloading, you'd go a long way toward reducing the congestion on Manhattan streets. I'm not sure how you'd go about doing it, since deliveries do need to be made, but it would be a huge help.
Well I guess I should have been specific but I was taking about the outer boroughs and into Long Island. I pretty much agree with what you said Manhattan is going to stay the way it is and I would be against anything cutting through Manhattan however leaving Manhattan is a different story, those highways outside the city center need extra capacity and updated free-er flowing interchanges and ramps.

Actually there is a way to improve cross-Manhattan traffic but I'd imagine it would be pretty expensive though not impossible. What if they were to were to build underground interchanges at the Holland Tunnel and bore a tunnel to the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel in addition to adding some capacity to connect to the tunnel. The tunnel would be maybe 1.5 miles which isn't bad but I imagine that connecting to existing tunnels and anything related would be expensive. In addition you would have to add capacity to I-278 which would be expensive as well. The good thing is you would have uninterrupted highway going across lower Manhattan with no exits except maybe adding an exit near the batt-brooklyn tunnel but that wouldn't be necessary as you could take I-278 and connect to the Brooklyn Bridge to get to lower Manhattan. Another way is maybe adding an interchange around Liberty Park in Jersey and making a tunnel from there to connect with the Battery Tunnel or into lower Manhattan and back to Battery tunnel.

Last edited by I-275westcoastfl; September 15th, 2011 at 03:47 AM.
I-275westcoastfl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 03:37 AM   #157
Koesj
Historian
 
Koesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 050
Posts: 429
Likes (Received): 72

Building on what Chris already added (concerning the Netherlands) are these two maps I made for a course on economic and social history:


First there's a national comparison on the planned network on the left (I think this is from the 1968 Rijkswegenplan), the actual network in the middle and the routes that were dropped on the right.

[IMG]http://i56.************/2n66pz.jpg[/IMG]

This is a zoomed in view of the Randstad with an ephasis on axed plans. The thin, dotted lines are current motorways while the thick broken lines currently planned or at least potentially upgradeable highways.

The big black ones have been completely cancelled. This includes the planned A16 'stamweg' which was only supposed to intersect with other motorways.

[IMG]http://i53.************/qz54ig.gif[/IMG]

By the way I did these in 2008 so there's bound to be mistakes somewhere.
Koesj no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 10:00 AM   #158
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

In the 1960s, there were also far-reaching plans for urban motorways within Amsterdam (the most prominent one being from a Mr. Jokinen) and other cities. I've never found maps and couldn't bother creating one on the basis of written information.

But I did find an impression of what residential areas would look like under the plan. So this is Nima-Farid's dream for towns throughout the World. Would you want to live there?


(this is the area concerned)
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 10:06 AM   #159
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21244

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post

But I did find an impression of what residential areas would look like under the plan. So this is Nima-Farid's dream for towns throughout the World. Would you want to live there?
That looks totally awesome if not for the style of the buildings. The Spui would also do well with some motorways out there, and so would an IJmuiden-Centraal Station expressway.

Brilliant.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2011, 10:12 AM   #160
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Urban motorways or just spurs?
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium