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Old September 14th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #1
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SAPPORO METROPOLITAN AREA | Public Transport



How did Sapporo overcome the loading guage of rubber-tyred metro, for its metros appear heavy-duty, e.g., broad cars? I've understood that rubber-tyred metros must limit the weight of trains + passengers, otherwise the tyres wouldn't be capable of all the extra weight that Sapporo's fleets seem quite capable of accommodating.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 08:07 PM   #2
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Has anybody here had first-hand experience entering or exiting an elevated subway station in Sapporo? Do you remember how drafty the elevated station(s) was when trains were either coming or going up above? Is its draftiness (wind) difficult for senior citizens at entering or exiting the station?

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ここで誰かが最初の手の経験は、入力または札幌で上昇地下鉄の駅を出てきた?この列車はどちらか来るか、上記まで行っていた時に高架駅がどれだけ隙間風覚えていますか?その虚は、駅を出入りする時の高齢者のための難しいですか?
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Old December 26th, 2013, 07:17 AM   #3
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My most favourite japaneese city is Sapporo.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 07:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
How did Sapporo overcome the loading guage of rubber-tyred metro, for its metros appear heavy-duty, e.g., broad cars? I've understood that rubber-tyred metros must limit the weight of trains + passengers, otherwise the tyres wouldn't be capable of all the extra weight that Sapporo's fleets seem quite capable of accommodating.
By using truck tires on truck axles 4 wheels per axle, 4 axles per car, giving you 16 tires to load at your discretion per car. A better system in my opinion.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #5
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Sapporo subway and tram map from urbanrail.net:

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Old December 26th, 2013, 01:29 PM   #6
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I live in Kolkata, which has some similarities with Sapporo. Both cities has both tram & metro, although Kolkata metro is a traditional steel wheel system, and Kolkata tram still uses trolleypole.

Sapporo has already 3 metro line opened, whereas in Kolkata there is only 1 line still, since 1984. Currently this line is extending towards north, and 5 more lines are under construction, but we don't know when they will start service, because there some many land acquisition problem.

Tram network is much larger than Sapporo, at present 22 routes are running, where in Sapporo only 1 route has survived, other routes are closed. But, the rolling stocks, stops, masts, ticketing etc. are much improved in Sapporo, compared with Kolkata.

Could anyone publish a full fledged map of Sapporo tram, as it was its hayday, with closed routes? It mus be in English.
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Old June 27th, 2014, 07:31 AM   #7
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There are some photos -









The only rubber tired metro system in Asia.
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Old June 29th, 2014, 09:05 AM   #8
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So I was in Sapporo 3 weeks ago and I took pictures of the subway, and videos.

I must say that I am from Montréal which is remarkably similar to Sapporo to the point that I think of Sapporo as the Japanese version of Montréal. One of the similarities is that Montréal built a rubber-tyred subway for the universal expo in 1967, Sapporo built its own rubber-tyred subway for the Olympics of 1972, 4 years later, Montréal would also host the Olympics, and extend its subway system for it.

So here are my observations and some photos.

First, the stations are like nearly all Japanese subway stations, clean and built compact with stairs in the middle of the platform.






Schematically, stations look like this:


In Montréal, there is no schedule for subways, they work by frequency so you can't plan trips to arrive just in time to catch the subway, in Sapporo, they have a schedule, and they stick to it.


The subway is much larger than Montréal's (which is claustrophobic) and the wagons are connected with each other, so that they create an enormous tunnel maybe 100 meters long:


Of course, the first time I took it, it was full and I couldn't quite see it:


In Montréal, people keep demanding the STM (the transit operator) to add aircon to the subway, but the STM refuses, pretending that if they put aircons in the wagons, the stations will get way too hot. From what I've seen, Sapporo seems to have found a compromise: it's the stations that have aircons, and the wagons, well, their windows can be opened:


The first time I saw it, I was quite shocked, the window was undulating because of the wind pressure.

One of the problems of rubber-tyred subways is that they tend not to work well outside, if there is snow or rain, I'm guessing they fear rain or snow accumulating on the concrete "road" on which the subway runs, causing significant performance loss, and I'm wondering if a subway could "derail" if there was enough snow. So in general they stay underground, which makes it hard to justify extensions in suburbs as it would be much less expensive if taken out of the ground.

In Sapporo, there is a part of one line that is taken outside, on an elevated guideway. How did they do it? A covered tunnel.




I must say it's quite nice to be in a subway and suddenly have the light shine through and to see the city around you.

Finally, some videos:

Here is a video of a subway arriving at a station:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Ls1xgGn2M

Here is a video of the interior of the subway when traveling, I must say that it seems to me that the Sapporo subway is much more stable than the Montréal subway... but there is still some dancing around which I attribute to the tyres. Rail subways tend to have more of a gliding feeling, you feel like you're on tyres on pneumatic subways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHxQtbjwJw4

Finally, here are two videos of the elevated section, from inside the subway:
http://youtu.be/_Dh2u6gpRjg
http://youtu.be/lQATH5GrQlw
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Old June 29th, 2014, 09:24 AM   #9
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Oh, and about the Sapporo Tram, as an added bonus.

There are a lot of different models of the tram in action. Some are quite recent and modern-looking, others are... relics.



Unfortunately, I've not been in the modern ones, I've been unlucky enough to get on the old trams both times I used them. They are quite narrow inside and not that long, I think even standard buses in Montréal have higher capacities than their old trams.


A video of the recent tram.
http://youtu.be/0XbGhkZ94u0

A video from the inside of an old tram, quite loud and not the most comfortable:
http://youtu.be/eBpmdJrqMzI
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Old June 29th, 2014, 07:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
From what I've seen, Sapporo seems to have found a compromise: it's the stations that have aircons, and the wagons, well, their windows can be opened:
Actually, the subways have fans, a linear type built by Mitsubishi Electric branded as the Linedelier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An1Ev0W9o2U

Apparently new rolling stock intended for the Toho Line will have aircon installed. It has become necessary even in this northern clime due to the trend of hotter summers.

Quote:
I must say that it seems to me that the Sapporo subway is much more stable than the Montréal subway... but there is still some dancing around which I attribute to the tyres.
The ride depends on the line. The Tozai and Toho Line use steel guideways for the tires to run on, giving a decent ride. The older Namboku Line uses concrete, which imparts a rougher ride, though there is less tire squeal. However, I much prefer conventional steel rail, both for ride quality and the ability to run outside and uncovered, as well as the option to interline with surface railways.

Last edited by k.k.jetcar; June 29th, 2014 at 07:42 PM.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 03:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Actually, the subways have fans, a linear type built by Mitsubishi Electric branded as the Linedelier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An1Ev0W9o2U

Apparently new rolling stock intended for the Toho Line will have aircon installed. It has become necessary even in this northern clime due to the trend of hotter summers.
I did not intend to mean that the subways had no fans, just no AC, at least as far as I could tell. But since the cool air of the stations get sucked in to the subways at stops and even in the tunnels a bit, it was pretty comfortable. Granted, this was early June, not August, but it was still pretty hot outside when I visited.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 09:37 PM   #12
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Taken from Japan Transport thread:

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Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
New rolling stock on Sapporo Toho Line



Last October 31, Sapporo City Transport Bureau announces the new 9000 series for Toho Line (sky blue line) that will enter in operation by April 2015.

A total of 80 cars (20 four-cars sets) made on Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Kobe will be delivered until the end of FY 2016.

Those new trains incorporates ATO and will be equipped with VVVF inverters and interior LED lighting. Bogies and portions of the couplers from current Toho Line rolling stock will be reused on the new units in order to reduce costs.

Platform edge doors are to be installed at all Toho Line stations by fiscal 2016.





Source: http://response.jp/article/2014/11/04/236554.html
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Old November 9th, 2014, 02:02 PM   #13
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More photos on my website : http://www.globalphotos.org/sapporo03.htm
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 07:34 PM   #14
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Taken from Japan transport thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Horn View Post
New rolling stock on Sapporo Toho Line

Last October 31, Sapporo City Transport Bureau announces the new 9000 series for Toho Line (sky blue line) that will enter in operation by April 2015.

A total of 80 cars (20 four-cars sets) made on Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Kobe will be delivered until the end of FY 2016.

Those new trains incorporates ATO and will be equipped with VVVF inverters and interior LED lighting. Bogies and portions of the couplers from current Toho Line rolling stock will be reused on the new units in order to reduce costs.

Platform edge doors are to be installed at all Toho Line stations by fiscal 2016.

Source: http://response.jp/article/2014/11/04/236554.html
17 March 2015 - Sapporo Municipal Subway hold a public presentation of the new 9000 series for the Toho Line. The new trains will enter in service next 28 April 2015. This units will replace the 7000 series (1988)








Interiors. Many handrails has been installed dividing in two the longitudinal seats


The four cars of the train has space for wheelchairs


Every door has an LCD screen to provide information



Source: http://rail.hobidas.com/blog/natori/.../03/19_18.html
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Old May 8th, 2015, 10:54 AM   #15
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Toho Line 9000 Series debut!


Sapporo Municipal Subway Series 9000 by harataku, en Flickr

The 9000 Series trains for the Sapporo Subway Toho Line has debuted today, May 8th.

The first unit departed from Sakaemachi at 10:56 in the morning.



Quote:

LED display with only one color


Gap between car and platform


Red light underside the screen. Where the door is open it blinks


Yellow line


Screens has been installed above each door. The information is reproduced in english, chinese and korean too




Two handrails on wheelchair space





Source: http://response.jp/article/2015/05/08/250692.html
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 07:40 AM   #16
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Taken from Japanese transport thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak79 View Post
After an official grand opening held the day before, Sapporo circular tram route started regular service yesterday: the 0,4 km new double-track section between the former termini (Susukino and Nishi yon-chome), which allow tramcars to serve both a clockwise and an counterclockwise line, has cost 2,9 billion ¥ (24,5 M€ / 32,6 M$ under the last five years average exchange rate) and it's estimated it will increase ridership by about 3%.


Here some sources:
(館主, Kanshu) blog; news n. #881;
yesterday post from another ralifan's blog;
the official page about tram expansion on Sapporo city website (there's also an english section of this site, but the tram page hasn't been updated yet).
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Old June 5th, 2016, 01:45 PM   #17
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Why they have chosen the rubber tyred metro network? It is costly, and not stands longer, becuase of frequent change of rubber tyre.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 05:13 PM   #18
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It was chosen because it provided better acceleration and climbing of grades (at that time), and as a showcase for the technology as Sapporo was hosting the Winter Olympics in 1972.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:34 AM   #19
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Sapporo’s metro network is the only metro in Japan, which is rubber tyred, but why Sapporo chose it? It is costlier, and rubber tyre is not strong and long-lasting like steel wheel. For this reason the elevated portion between Hiragashi and Makomanai is covered with an aluminium shelter to protect it from heavy snow fall common in the area, which is really a matter of joke. I also read that it was applied also to reduce the noise along the line, but if there is rubber tyre, why it should create noise?

Another peculiarity is Namboku line uses third rail, but other two lines uses overhead rail. Why this mixing? Third rail lies just the side of the main track, which uses less place, so there should not a tunnel with high height is necessary, whereas overhead rail requires bigger tunnel.

Is there any extension planned? Or this is the final layout of the metro system? Please confirm.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 09:39 AM   #20
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Why would you find it a joke given the reasons outlined above? Also steel wheel systems are subject to adverse weather conditions too - Stockholm tunnelbana requires extensive ploughing and also has delays during heavy snow. Sapporo decided to run a system that could manage independently of the weather conditions and I find this to be very smart in fact.
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