Seattle area: NBA/NHL arena

[mhays]

Garfield Park -- other than Chicago, no midwest city is remotely in Seattle's league in its level of pleasure tourism. Seattle isn't in the top 10 either...the bar is pretty low here. I like a lot of Midwest cities, have flown there just to be a city tourist (causing people to scratch their heads!), and support them quite a bit on SSC, but let's be reasonable. Good cities, but not tourist magnets.

The point was that tourists aren't flocking to those cities for their sports teams. They presumably draw well from their regions (like a lot of overnighters from 100-200 miles away), and some people do go on multi-city baseball tours etc., but games aren't a big sector for distant tourism.

Seattle oddly enough does well in this regard. The Mariners play in Japan kind of like the Braves used to always be on TBS, due to the ownership, Ichiro, etc. Package tours to come to Seattle and see Mariner games are apparently popular. But even then it's a drop in the bucket in terms of ticket sales.

As for Sounder's latest claims, good lord. I vote yes for all this stuff but this guy is in typical Sounder obfuscation mode. As investments go, putting public money into stadiums is about civic pride, not financial return.

[pwalker]

MLS soccer is a niche sport. Yes, there are fans in some cities, but this sport is still a distant fifth behind NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL.

I would say that their fans are quite vocal and passionate, but this sport is still #5 when it comes to North American popularity.

EDIT: I misunderstood the last part of the post above, and was commenting on the Sounders, not the poster called "Sounder". If that contributed to making this thread a "mess", I apologize.

BTW, I am not "singling" out the MSL, just trying reflect the state of professional sports in the U.S. today. No harm, no foul...

[LCIII]

Good God this thread is a mess.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by pwalker

MLS soccer is a niche sport. Yes, there are fans in some cities, but this sport is still a distant fifth behind NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL.

I would say that their fans are quite vocal and passionate, but this sport is still #5 when it comes to North American popularity.

To say they equal the Mariners and Seahawks is disingenious.

So why do you put the Mariners and Seahawks together? The NFL dwarfs everything in this country, and Seattle is a particularly disinterested baseball market right now. The NBA is falling off the map by turning away casual fans and the NHL could still be called niche itself, particularly in a place where the league has no current presence. Why single out soccer?

[LCIII]

I agree. Singling out soccer here in SoccerTown, USA is not a wildly intelligent move. Sure MLS hasn't been around as long but Sounders FC roots run deep out here and the growth year on year has been tremendous with zero sign of slowing. Its obviously not the biggest show in town let alone the country but it's growing quickly.

[pwalker]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

So why do you put the Mariners and Seahawks together? The NFL dwarfs everything in this country, and Seattle is a particularly disinterested baseball market right now. The NBA is falling off the map by turning away casual fans and the NHL could still be called niche itself, particularly in a place where the league has no current presence. Why single out soccer?

Agreed, NFL is King. There is no argument there. MLB is still #2, and the NBA, despite their labor problems is #3. Hockey is still big in many markets, though it is a distant #4. (I still enjoy NCAA football above all others, but I digress).

I don't think I singled out soccer. In fact, I applauded their fans as "vocal and passionate". I was just trying to represent what the current state of professional sports is in the U.S. today. I never said anything negative about the MLS, other than it is somewhat "niche", and that in itself is not negative, or "singling out".

[pwalker]

Originally Posted by LCIII

I agree. Singling out soccer here in SoccerTown, USA is not a wildly intelligent move. Sure MLS hasn't been around as long but Sounders FC roots run deep out here and the growth year on year has been tremendous with zero sign of slowing. Its obviously not the biggest show in town let alone the country but it's growing quickly.

"Soccertown USA"?

Seattle has good attendance for their MLS games, but this is the first time I have heard this phrase. Perhaps I am not close enough to the game, but I am close to the media, and this is new to me.

As for not being "wildly intelligent", well I don't think that is true. I also don't really care that you consider a fact-based post as an unintelligent move. Please offer some substance when you choose to take shots and they will have more impact.

[Under The Clouds]

Originally Posted by pwalker

"Soccertown USA"?

Seattle has good attendance for their MLS games, but this is the first time I have heard this phrase. Perhaps I am not close enough to the game, but I am close to the media, and this is new to me.

"Has good attendance" understates what the Sounders have meant to Seattle and MLS. They've elevated by at least a magnitude what a pro soccer team brings to a city. When the Sounders joined MLS in 2009, from day 1 their average attendance was double that of any other team (36,000 thousand). No MLS team had ever seen numbers like that. They're the number 1 team in the league in sale of team apparel, and they've spread MLS's brand--and Seattle's--internationally through friendlies with European clubs and the CONCACAF Champions tournement.

MLS is also trending in the right way. While the NBA risks losing a season, MLS has contracts with ESPN and FOX to broadcast games, and has a new contract with NBC (I believe it starts next season).

1 thing to keep in mind about the NFL: it's clearly the No. 1 sport in America. No question. But it only has 10 home games played each season (excluding playoffs). Contrast that to MLB (81 games), NBA (41), or even MLS (Sounders have 29 home games this season). It's not clear to me that the money brought in by the NFL, mainly via TV contracts, is going to have a greater economic impact on Pioneer Square than either the Sounders or Mariners do, with their longer seasons. TV money obviously goes straight to the NFL (and then to the clubs), bypassing local businesses. I don't know if a study has been done, but I'd be interested to see how business owners in and around SODO rate the 3 teams in terms of impact. Given their longer seasons, I think a case can be made that the M's and Sounders have a bigger impact than the Seahawks on the local economy. It's great we have all 3 teams, but I don't know if its a slam dunk that the Seahawks generate the biggest local economic impact, despite being in the most profitable league.

[LCIII]

Originally Posted by pwalker

"Soccertown USA"?

Seattle has good attendance for their MLS games, but this is the first time I have heard this phrase. Perhaps I am not close enough to the game, but I am close to the media, and this is new to me.

As for not being "wildly intelligent", well I don't think that is true. I also don't really care that you consider a fact-based post as an unintelligent move. Please offer some substance when you choose to take shots and they will have more impact.

Sensitive much? Hahaha

SoccerTown, USA is actually what the broadcasters called Seattle when they shot to live feeds from a bar here during the World Cup games. It's actually come up several times since that as well. Interviews with players, not just MLS players, announcers, commentators and others have called Seattle THE soccer city in the US.

[mhays]

For bars it's probably all about the number of people, particularly on weekends, with variation for time of day, somewhat for variance in tastes by sport, etc. For rug stores it's apparently a serious reduction in sales on game days.

[LCIII]

Originally Posted by pwalker

Agreed, NFL is King. There is no argument there. MLB is still #2, and the NBA, despite their labor problems is #3. Hockey is still big in many markets, though it is a distant #4. (I still enjoy NCAA football above all others, but I digress).

I don't think I singled out soccer. In fact, I applauded their fans as "vocal and passionate". I was just trying to represent what the current state of professional sports is in the U.S. today. I never said anything negative about the MLS, other than it is somewhat "niche", and that in itself is not negative, or "singling out".

Maybe you don't understand what singling out means. Allow me to educate you.

This is what you said: "MLS soccer is a niche sport. Yes, there are fans in some cities, but this sport is still a distant fifth behind NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL."

You DID single out MLS soccer (which is redundant btw) because you made a statement about MLS that separated it from the rest of the pack- NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.

Understand yet?

[AzChristopher]

Originally Posted by mhays

For bars it's probably all about the number of people, particularly on weekends, with variation for time of day, somewhat for variance in tastes by sport, etc. For rug stores it's apparently a serious reduction in sales on game days.

When I was a kid I remember there being so many rug stores.

About an arena. Sports are more of a redistribution of money in a region as most of the people that go to a game already live in the area. So an arena is more of an anchor for an area/development. Much in the way that the Key used to attract more people to Seattle Center/Queen Anne and how the stadiums attract people to Pioneer Square and Sodo.

That is part of the problem on selling people on paying taxes for one. The tax money goes to billionaires to play with their toys at the benefit of a specific part of the region. Sure there is the whole civic pride thing but not all tax payers care about sports and Seattle has a lot of unique things already to be prideful of.

I want to see one built because I think an NHL team would do really well in the Puget Sound. However, as someone who lives in Phoenix I've seen first hand how Glendale gambled on Westgate, where the Cards and Coyotes play, and failed miserably. Just dropping an arena into a location isn't a guarantee that everything will get better around it.

I think that is enough for this soap box... standing down.

[dmoor82]

Whatever is or maybe built in Seattle for a possible NBA or NHL franchise will be an Awesome design and build,just look at the other pro teams venues!As an Oklahoma City resident,let me say that Seattle is a vibrant,cultured city who's residents love sports and I have NO doubt that Seattle will have either an NBA or NHL franchise in the not to distant future!FWIW,I hope that Seattle gets an NBA team and calls it the Sonics!

[LCIII]

Loving the out-of-towner love for Seattle

[pwalker]

Originally Posted by LCIII

Maybe you don't understand what singling out means. Allow me to educate you.

This is what you said: "MLS soccer is a niche sport. Yes, there are fans in some cities, but this sport is still a distant fifth behind NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL."

You DID single out MLS soccer (which is redundant btw) because you made a statement about MLS that separated it from the rest of the pack- NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.

Understand yet?

Don't need an education on this. And there is nothing from you I really need to understand. IMO, you have demonstrated here and in other threads that you certainly like to argue. There are other words that describe this, but I will not take that road. Done here.

[LCIII]

Hahahaha you're the one who said you didn't single out soccer when you CLEARLY did.

[pwalker]

Originally Posted by LCIII

Hahahaha you're the one who said you didn't single out soccer when you CLEARLY did.

I'm not sure why this is so important to you, as I never dissed or even singled out soccer. I just provided an example of where it stands. But you will get the last word, as you desire. Done, done, done with this ridiculous thread. Please feel free to move about the site to argue with others.

[LCIII]

Originally Posted by pwalker

I'm not sure why this is so important to you, as I never dissed or even singled out soccer. I just provided an example of where it stands. But you will get the last word, as you desire. Done, done, done with this ridiculous thread. Please feel free to move about the site to argue with others.

Hahaha this is so funny to me! You didn't single out soccer? You didn't make a declarative statement that it was separate and lesser (distant fifth) than the other pro sports in the US? Hahaha you're delusional!

[SeattleRedhawk86]

Originally Posted by dmoor82

Whatever is or maybe built in Seattle for a possible NBA or NHL franchise will be an Awesome design and build,just look at the other pro teams venues!As an Oklahoma City resident,let me say that Seattle is a vibrant,cultured city who's residents love sports and I have NO doubt that Seattle will have either an NBA or NHL franchise in the not to distant future!FWIW,I hope that Seattle gets an NBA team and calls it the Sonics!

We'd rather have our old team back, that was stolen from us.

[dmoor82]

Originally Posted by SeattleRedhawk86

We'd rather have our old team back, that was stolen from us.

Come on dude,really?I didnt steal anything from you and OKC residents didnt steal anything from you!Clay Bennet,David Stern and ultimately Howard Schultz are to blame!I come on here to show my support for Seattle and thats the response I get?OK,Whatever but I still support the idea of Seattle getting an NBA or NHL franchise!